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| Thread: British Fritzl (!) jailed |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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TheDeath
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posted November 26, 2008 03:33 PM |
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What would that accomplish? Other then "revenge", I mean, and strictly spoken, if revenge IS a motive, then revenge would be the right of the victims, not the bystanders.
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Why is it basically not worth mentioning if someone does vile things "for money", while it is a sensation and an incredible crime when someone does something for... "pleasure".
The second one is sick, but is the first one less so?
I do but no one listens and considers it "the mighty way of capitalism" 
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Asheera
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posted November 26, 2008 03:40 PM |
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"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" 
I'm tired of this stupid quote.
Sure, killing this evil bastard instead of keeping him alive in prison will have a very negative impact on other humans. [/sarcasm]
Oh and JJ, it's not only revenge, but why should we keep him alive (give him food, etc), when he most certainly does NOT deserve it? So, unless you want to let him rot and starve in a cell (although this way we give him a small space as well  ) then we should kill him.
And who said you can't avenge someone who died (by taking the revenge yourself in his/her name)? Who said that someone has to do it him/herself?
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TheDeath
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posted November 26, 2008 03:46 PM |
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Sure, killing this evil bastard instead of keeping him alive in prison will have a very negative impact on other humans. [/sarcasm]
Flawed reasoning. Killing doesn't imply torturing/doing the same to him as he did. Period.
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Who said that someone has to do it him/herself?
As a Chaotic Neutral you should know that
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Asheera
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posted November 26, 2008 03:52 PM |
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Well of course it's better if he/she does it him/herself, but if it can't be possible then it's perfectly fine for others to avenge that person.
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TheDeath
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posted November 26, 2008 03:55 PM |
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benefit?
(I mean for other Chaotic Neutrals since they don't really benefit from helping others)
anyway I'm pretty damn sure JJ made a good point about this (revenge), we're just arguing small things.
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del_diablo
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posted November 26, 2008 03:56 PM |
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Well, sometimes killing is a good solution. There is also a reason that good hunting etice includings killing the animals properly and fast.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 26, 2008 03:56 PM |
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And who said you can't avenge someone who died (by taking the revenge yourself in his/her name)? Who said that someone has to do it him/herself?
No one. If it was about revenge, it would be the RIGHT of the victims to do it (or not to do it), not the DUTY.
So let's look at it this way:
What happens with a simple, greedy, doing-it-for-the-money thief?
Goes into jail.
What happens with a cleptomaniac who steals for the thrill of it?
He's treated, since he's considered sick.
So, what happens with someone who sells children into a life of abusing, violating them for money?
What happens with someone who abuses his own children for whatever sick reason?
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mvassilev
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posted November 26, 2008 03:56 PM |
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This is exactly why we need to have the death penalty. The justice system in most of Western Europe is a joke.
TheDeath:
So if revenge is only the right of the victims, murderers can't be punished? Because murderers' victims are dead.
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TheDeath
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posted November 26, 2008 04:00 PM |
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So if revenge is only the right of the victims, murderers can't be punished? Because murderers' victims are dead.
Yes they can't be 'punished' as REVENGE, they can be STOPPED (in jail or killed, depending on how serious the situation is and if they are dangerous/likely to escape/do something wrong/whatever).
Revenge is stupid.
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Doomforge
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posted November 26, 2008 04:00 PM |
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Proper imprisonment is a bigger punishment than death.
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Asheera
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posted November 26, 2008 04:00 PM |
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What happens with a cleptomaniac who steals for the thrill of it?
He's treated, since he's considered sick.
Well I guess it's enough to say here that I don't agree to treat that one. His actions were evil, it doesn't matter his cause, he should get the same punishment as the greedy thief.
I know you disagree, but at least I answered your other questions this way, even though you don't like my reasoning.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 26, 2008 04:11 PM |
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I find the concept of "punishment" completely wrong, especially in a Christian society.
Punishment simply wastes something that shouldn't be wasted. The more serious a crime is, the bigger the dept the evildoer owes the victims specifically and the society as a whole for the damage the evildoer did.
Punishment as in sitting in a jail or being executed doesn't do anything to pay that debt.
For the heaviest crimes things like being a guinea pig or a lab rat for new drugs to cure illnesses or in general for doing especially dangerous things might be right. Note, that this involves a rehabilitation: if you do enough for the society your debt is purged. Note further that this makes it necessary to treat a sick criminal.
In other words, our way of punishment simply wastes everything the evildoers might be able to do for society, and there is a whole lot those evildoers could actually do.
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xerox
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posted November 26, 2008 04:21 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 16:22, 26 Nov 2008.
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Omg death penalty and torture is just for barbaric, bloodthirsty and very evil people - it doesnt make anything better!
Violence = Bad
And they should get imprisoned, but prison should not be terrible (which fortunaly, it is not in Sweden - the prisons are very nice here).
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mvassilev
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posted November 26, 2008 04:24 PM |
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JJ has a point. Criminals should only be executed if they committed a heavy crime and cannot do anything for society.
On the other hand, there is this article, which also is worth reading and has a point.
Xerox:
Those who commit violent crimes deserve nothing more than to have what they did done to them, if that is somehow workable.
And prisons (at least for violent, incurable criminals) should be horrible places.
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Darkshadow
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posted November 26, 2008 04:31 PM |
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And prisons (at least for violent, incurable criminals) should be horrible places.
Like Guantanamo?
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TheDeath
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posted November 26, 2008 04:52 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 16:53, 26 Nov 2008.
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Those who commit violent crimes deserve nothing more than to have what they did done to them, if that is somehow workable.
And prisons (at least for violent, incurable criminals) should be horrible places.
How can you call this 'rational'?
What do you mean they deserve nothing more than to have what they did done to them? That's exactly the eye-for-an-eye revenge which JJ outlined it's stupid and WASTEFUL and you go down to his level. From all angles it's stupid. It's a waste of energy, money and effort to torture them if they tortured someone. Fine, if you want to stop him, just shoot him. Or rehabilitate him if he can prove useful.
Though I don't necessarily agree with Xerox I must say that yes, the eye-for-an-eye is very enlightening (sarcasm in case you haven't noticed)
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Asheera
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posted November 26, 2008 04:56 PM |
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What do you mean they deserve nothing more than to have what they did done to them? That's exactly the eye-for-an-eye revenge which JJ outlined it's stupid and WASTEFUL and you go down to his level. From all angles it's stupid.
No, it's definitely not stupid. It may be a waste of 'energy', but you're ignoring the fact that most rehabilitations and such can go wrong as well - not everything works as planned, otherwise we wouldn't have escapes from prison at all.
You're also ignoring the fact that the criminal will USE energy to survive (food and anything else he needs)
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Doomforge
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posted November 26, 2008 04:59 PM |
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it's just a bad system. If he had to work for his food (not necessarily hard..), it would be ok.
I think JJ is correct. A dead criminal is not really a benefit. He still owns humanity a debt and should pay it. You may kill him afterwards
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TheDeath
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posted November 26, 2008 05:01 PM |
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it's just a bad system. If he had to work for his food (not necessarily hard..), it would be ok.
Yeah maybe
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I think JJ is correct. A dead criminal is not really a benefit. He still owns humanity a debt and should pay it. You may kill him afterwards
Killing him afterwards is just even MORE barbaric than eye-for-an-eye. You mean you still kill him after he paid his 'debt'? That's just 
Why would he agree to pay his debt then and not accept to be killed right away?
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Doomforge
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posted November 26, 2008 05:16 PM |
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I don't think criminals should be killed. I addressed this to those who think so.
Killing criminal after he paid his debt seems a better way than to kill him outright if you wish him dead anyway 
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