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| Thread: ----------------> STATS vs. ARMY <---------------------------- |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 10, 2001 11:32 PM |
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Edited By: Jinxer on 10 Dec 2001
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----------------> STATS vs. ARMY <----------------------------
Does it trouble anyone about this game that Double stats far outways double army.
Several games now I have had a KILLER army, I went to great pains to build my army, and spending tons of cash growing and buying all them men, and my opponent gets a couple more better relics and wipes your army out like it was 100 Titans fighting 10 Imps.
I sure hope Heroes4 has thought all these issues out. I hope heroes 4 is more based on skill and knowledge of the game and not pure luck. Seems kinda silly to role the dice when game starts and say. YOU WIN! Just cause the computer placed 4 crappy relics on your side and placed 8 of the top relics on there side in tombs and survivors and in topia LOL
And the the relics need to be re-catagorized also. Heavenly Helm and DragonHelm should not be in same catagory.
Anyone else have similar games in which your army was far superior but you lost cause your arts sucked and he had double stats??
Jinxer
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 11, 2001 12:19 AM |
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No but I have lost to Pendant of negativity 
J/K, well imho there are some maps that try to counter those wild stats with some wild army. Giant war being one of them. U get a huge army on that one.
But otherwise I tend to agree with u.
Defreni
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted December 11, 2001 12:33 AM |
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blarg
stats/skills vrs army/skills
depends on how big ur army is in comparison to his if u dbl everything of his and he dbls ur stats u should win or should be a close battle if both ur magics suck but in this case better magic will be the winner. and also if u match ur skills to the army u have ie arm/off/tac/arch
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 11, 2001 12:56 AM |
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I disagree. I think regarding stats, the programmers did a brilliant job. All these complainings about losing in an unfair way, sorry, sound like kindergarten to me - of course relics can increase stats by an extreme amount, while Diplomacy skill can do the same thing to army size.
Of course there will always be games where the opponent is luckier than you. Thatīs the point where you need to be inventive. And sometimes even that doesnīt help and you lose ... well, life is full of more important things than Heroes .
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 11, 2001 01:07 AM |
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Edited By: Jinxer on 10 Dec 2001
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Actually Defreni the map I was refering to in my recent game was Giantwar!
Here was the army and stats of both teams:
21-22-11-17 ------- 42-40-27-25
23 GhostDragons ----- 18 ArchDevils
40 DeathKnights ----- 50 Sultans
65 Liches ------------ 65 PitLords
88 VampLords -------- 80 Horned Deamons
2200 Skeletons ------- 120 Cerebi
---------------- --- 127 Magags
He melted my army like it was nothing. his 50 sultans killed all 65 liches in 1 hit. Then his 18 Archdevils killed 8 GhostDragons in 1 hit. So I ask ya, how can ya defeat that? ArchDevils killed 300 skels per hit. And with my stats so low and his so high they wouldnt done much damage anyways lol. So this is the senerio. Anyone else have similar senerios?
And Defreni I wish there was a 1 art counter for this situation like I had with you and getting anti-lighting pendant. Thats my points if stats get this unbalanced there is little to counter it.
Jinxer
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted December 11, 2001 01:10 AM |
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Better training analogy
Not really bothered by that. It only makes sense that better stats are dominant, smaller, but better trained or equipped armies have thru all of history beat superior numbers.
As for relics, that is another thing altogether. As much as someone could get 3 or even all 4 of the relics which boost all 4 stats, one side getting all Tomes or Wizards Hat and Orb of Vulnerability is just as much lucky or not for getting it out of relics.
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted December 11, 2001 01:54 AM |
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hey defreni, remember out gw game ... you had stats like
28 42 30 26
to my
27 26 29 16
or something like that ... and I didn't have much chance against ya... because you also had a bigger army.
to jinxer: I have had that horrid luck / setup before. It sucks. That was the very reason that got me interested in open maps more, and also interested in maps without relics ... because in my opinion, the relics are SOOO diverse that there should be lvl5's. Or at least have the best and worst relics taken out so that they're more balanced.
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- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26)
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted December 11, 2001 02:08 AM |
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hmmm
jinxer is it right that in final battle u hide in town ?
if so that was a big mistake in my opinion . If u hide in town vs inferno( archdevils + sultans) with such stats u deserve to get spanked
If u got the bigger army u have to fight on open field. Ur 2200 skells are completly useless when u stay in town.
Hideschaaf
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Undead_Knight
Known Hero
Hero of Chaos
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posted December 11, 2001 02:40 AM |
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to jinxer
It seems to me that you are playing most your own maps so just dont put so many relics on them 
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destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted December 11, 2001 03:28 AM |
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finds this frustrating
hmmmmm....
I have been killed so many times by the bad luck bug.. and then again I have won with it many times too. And sometimes (Heaven Forbid) there has actually been a close game.
This is why I prefer to play maps with all top relics out .. ie lions sheild and higher. Or better yet with no relics at all... I even tried a game with Arch DEvil 666 were artifacts were banned alltogether.. you could use nothing..
But to say no skill involved is foolish...
Necro is by far IMO the toughest army to fight You may have different opinions but thats you. Second.. if I had moved those arch devils in for the kill while opponent is destroying catapult they get slaughtered very quickly despite stats by dreads, skels, vamp lords and ghosts.. 1 retail gone and its open season..
Sure I could have run all my troops up to the castle walls let skels kill them 1 by 1... but why?? I saw 107 cerbs go down in one blow from them.. and 65 pitlords in 2.. granted those are not sultans or arch devils.. but they didn't get hit by vamps, dreads, or ghossts..
Well I agree that in no way did it take a "great amount of skill" to win that game..
AND... IMO rules of war stating that "middle Topias" are not allowed to be hit strengthens the chance that one side will be FAR MORE lucky than the other. (That was your Choice)
No offense meant by any of this Jinxer..
But I took slight offense at the posting.. so heres my response...
I am 2-1 with you now.. Lucky?? first game was definately definately unlucky for me... second was not luck I don't think.. (although losing 4 Arch Devils to surrendering hero was unlucky)
anyway.. sorry bout the luck
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The Dead Walk!!!
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zsa
Famous Hero
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posted December 11, 2001 04:48 AM |
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To Jinxer
I frankly don't understand why r u complaining???
U chose that rich map so why r u complaining. If u play maps like that the luck factor is bigger, but no one forced u to play it.
Besides, u had 2200 skellies!!
1.You don't like hit n run and u most probably don't play with it
2.U complain about better artefacts.
Now, I am wondering... aren't those the only ways to defeat a skelet army that big??
I'm sorry but I don't understand what do u want? It isn't like u builded your army as u said, u just fought some battles and made some skellies. That isn't seriouns building of troops for me, that's harvesting!
And The rest of the troops are pretty much equal.
Ok that's all I had to say
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 11, 2001 04:49 AM |
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Well Jinxer wont POST anymore
Well first of all there was no offense sent your way Destro. You played a great game. You got great arts, thats the way game works. I am sorry you took offense to my post. My post was directed in General to that type of senerio. I lost to Zud in the game before to the same senerio. Me double army him double stats. So this POST was ALL about that type of senerio in general NOT about our game Destro. I really take offense that you come onto this post attacking me as if I was claiming you didnt deserve that win. You won fair and square, I never said other wise. I wish people would read what the post says and NOT assume things about your meaning in a post.
Maybe I did chose wrong to sit in castle. The first and main reason was I still hadnt bought all my men. I was poor. So I figured if he wanted to attack me fine if not I was gonna buy all my men to try and give the best fight.
Also I have seen open feild battles with this type of senerio. Let me give example. Hack with 40 attack vs. Soly with 20 defence. Sure SOly might have 50 spell power but with Hack going first he casts mass haste and I have nothing left when Soly's turn comes around. So I wieghed the options and figured sitting in castle might give me a slight chance. As for the no middle topias rule, I suggested that to try and balance the matches a bit more. If ya didnt want it just speak up man, wouldnt have mattered to me.
Anyways. I am saddend to hear you react like this Destro, this game is not based on skill. By me saying that did not mean you have no skill. Everyone knows this game is all about luck not skill. So why you took it so personally I have no clue.
I made this post becasue I wanted to hear about other similar stories and games , and all it turned into is a big whine session. So this will be my last post in this community. It is no fun to post here anymore.
Jinxer
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zsa
Famous Hero
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posted December 11, 2001 04:56 AM |
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To Jinxer
PS: Hope u didn't get offended by my agressive post .
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destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted December 11, 2001 05:09 AM |
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Sorry you feel that way Jinxer.. I was just kinda explaining myslef there too.
but really no point in continuing this thread further.. from me anyhow
No offence was meant and of course I know game is luck...
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The Dead Walk!!!
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted December 11, 2001 08:17 AM |
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all i have to say is.....
that the relics are TOO powerful, and hence I play maps like the last battle, where they do not exist.
In homm 1 and 2 the ultimate artifacts (like grails) were the most powerful, and these were no stronger than your titan's gladius etc.
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Phantom1500
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 11, 2001 08:43 AM |
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Jinxer, based on the stats you gave for the game, your army absolutely didn't have a chance. He would have easily won with equal stats and a little clever magic.
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted December 11, 2001 09:02 AM |
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some thoughts
2200 skels is a lot and only beatable by either much better stats, hit and run what most dont do, or having very good spells with opponent getting none.
so destro was couraged playing necro on giant war, surely a necro map, and he got great relics and its nothing bad in that since he fought a way better army.
lets say both get almost same stats, than the skels smash everything and destro would have had a prob, thats the fun when you start a heroes game: you never know how it will end, and again its good this way.
about the relics, yes the top relics suck and the weak relics suck too, the best thing imo is to take out HH, SOJ and if you want lions along with the silly tomes and the other stuff that is out anyway usually, and also take out all the crap relics so drag crown is the worst.
So basically available will be: drag crown, gladius, sentinels, sandals, bliss, drag armor and maybe lions.
this way you ensure both get only stat relics that dont unbalance the game, thats what was done by motor on his Allied champions maps, and so far all liked it.
so jinxer, maybe update your maps with banning those relics, and maybe others will too and try it and see it makes relic maps much more playable.
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted December 11, 2001 09:15 AM |
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Quote:
Anyways. I am saddend to hear you react like this Destro, this game is not based on skill. By me saying that did not mean you have no skill. Everyone knows this game is all about luck not skill. So why you took it so personally I have no clue.
I'm glad you posted this and brought this up Jinxer. And I think you have a right to post this even if it WAS just complaining.
As for the statement "Everyone knows this game is all about luck not skill" ... I believe it's partly true.
I've seen a few games won by pure luck, and some purely from skill. I'd say all matches involve at least some of both ... in varying degrees, depending on map and circumstances.
I don't know this scenario, but it sounds like one got DAMN lucky with artifacts.
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- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26)
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted December 11, 2001 09:28 AM |
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let the chips fall where they may
i prefer a map that has EVERYTHING included or nothing included. because who is to say say u get sentinals shield/titans glad/titans curiass/drag armor and ur opponent gets drag hat/thunderhelm whoo hoo awesome huh? banning relics is dumb in these cases unless u got 4 topias on the map where each person will get all the relics on the map since they repeat
with everything included there is a better chance of things ballancing out hh/soj countered by titans cuirass/earth tome/air tome/fire tome water doesn't count as it has no power spells but very usefull for cloning.
more relics the merrier i say more topias or topias in a box as some people do. and set the relics so one side gets +9 to all and the other side gets that too.
i personally dont see a reason why people take out all tomes and leave water take that tome out too. or most maps always take out orb of inhibition. then take out orb of vulnerability too jeez.
whaaa whaaa whaaa i had bad luck
well u say good game u B*stard next time u not get so lucky or if u feel bad calling ur opponent lucky just say i get u next time
heroes is a luck based game when 2 players of equal skill play.
so blarg
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MidnightWraith
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 11, 2001 10:18 AM |
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addicted to luck
yep i agree heroes has a heap of luck in it, even without relics (mage guild for example). Even though ppl complain about it, they actually r attracted to the luck element like gamblers to a poker machine, cuz ur good luck is just around the corner... What is nice is when some strategy is still needed with that luck.
Heroes is a luck management game
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