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| Thread: Conflux return |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 19, 2008 08:16 PM |
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Elemental Chains shows that some elements are stronger/can break fire.
You cant compare unique racial skills to a town with a totally new line-up. It isnt likely.
Now I will leave this thread - because you have no source that elementals are equal.
In my opinion - fire is stronger then air in therms of strength, each element has its own power.
Water gives life and balance.
Air is swift and agile.
Fire is furious and lethal.
Earth has great endurance.
Time makes the world flow.
Arcane is mysterious.
Light is warm and means hope.
Dark is cold and means death.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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stankelbenet
Adventuring Hero
bringer of nostalgia & darknes
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posted December 20, 2008 10:15 AM |
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the heroes
i have a nice idea about the heroes of conflux. In HOMM3 there were planeswalkers and elementalist, where planeswalkers were magic and elementalists were might. I think it would be cool if there were four hero types from conflux: Earth elementalist, fire elementalist, water elementalist and air elementalist.
Earth elementalists would be focusing in defense.
Fire elementalist would be focusing in attack.
Water elementalist would be focusing in knowledge.
Air elementalist would be focusing in spell power.
I am NOT saying that all other factions now should have 4 hero types (just in case you think i am)
PS: mostly I dont like the idea about conflux because of the hard creature line-up.
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MattII 
Legendary Hero
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posted December 20, 2008 11:10 AM |
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Firstly, Planeswalker would be might and Elementalists would be magic. Secondly, having individual Elementalists would be an abysmal failure, we need no more than two heroes per faction.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 20, 2008 12:48 PM |
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Quote:
Elemental Chains shows that some elements are stronger/can break fire.
Eh - no? Elemental Chains shows that Water and Fire are opposed to each other. That means that Water will break Fire, just like Fire will break Water - depending on the quanta of each. Similarly, Earth and Air are opposed, but neither is stronger.
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What will happen now?
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golden
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 25, 2009 12:33 AM |
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another idea...
Is it mandatory to make a specific conflux faction?
There is a non-sence to create a conflux faction, as they hare neutrals by definition, so they cannot be part of any scenario.
What about including elementals into another faction, for example for the sorcerer faction?
Elementals would be only one middle-level creature without any upgrade option but with the choice of 4 basis declinations: fire, earth, water, air. Or, the available declination can depend on the castle location.
The scenario can say that the sorcerers can successfully generate elementals creatures, using gold and some resources.
So the sorcerer can have both elementals creatures and "regular" creatures in his army.
Another idea is to affect each elemental to the more relevant faction: fire to demons, earth to elves, air to magicians, water to sorcerers.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted June 25, 2009 01:11 AM |
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Quote:
Is it mandatory to make a specific conflux faction?
There is a non-sence to create a conflux faction, as they hare neutrals by definition, so they cannot be part of any scenario.
What about including elementals into another faction, for example for the sorcerer faction?
I'm currently overhauling my proposal to put them in the Academy. Many people would probably say that this would ruin the Academy, but I don't think so, if anything my version of the 'Academy' is already ruining the old feel, with or without the whole Elemental feel.
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
Preparing
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posted June 26, 2009 11:48 AM |
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I don't get why we can't simply give the Conflux 4x3.5 tier units, intead of a lvl 2, 3, 4, and 5.
I'd like to see a polished Conflux, but not a complete overhaul of lineup system or elementals in other towns.
With medium level units, they'd be like starting with Bron in H3, you have a small number of medium level creatures, but you don't get to have as much lvl 1 ones.
You have a strong creature but you have to be cautions not to lose a single one. Cure shouldn1t work on any elemental, instead the elemental destructive spells should do the healing instead.
There are also some good ideas there, for example Alcibiades' and Daystar's idea, about how to increase their magic potential with adding greater AoE to their spells.
This really shouldn't be a matterof overcomplicated systems, it wouldn't hurt much to have equally powered creatures on different levels.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted June 30, 2009 02:33 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 02:45, 30 Jun 2009.
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This poll was too simple, a simple yes/no doesn't cut it. it should have been:
1. Yes, H3 style.
2. Yes, other style.
3. Yes, if they can balance it properly.
4. No.
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Geltnim
Hired Hero
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posted August 26, 2009 11:19 PM |
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You can only despise Conflux out of plain "the fox and the grapes" illness, i.e. what you can't achieve, maintain, surpass, or understand, you tend to vilify and name as "dumb". Which, well, speaks of you only, no one else...
Conflux could be regarded plain and monotonous in all its dwellers being Elementals, just as Castle could be regarded monotonous for its dwellers being almost only humans, or Necropolis for its dwellers being only the undead, etc.... In all towns, alligned troops have something in common about their race/ characteristics/ place of origin or dwelling. That is why they are aligned in the first place.
Elementals have always been a great army to me, each element consigned to its own "symbolic" role and task: the sturdy earth elementals were the brawny thugs, gracefully attired and mysterious psychic elementals were the "sorcerers" of the army (compared to ogre magi of stronghold, liches of necropolis, etc.), storm elementals were the notorious rank units, etc. Also, an entire philosophical story could be drawn out of their hierarchy, e.g. I occasionally asked myself why the Air is the lowest element in the town, why the Magic is the strongest, etc.
They are immune to certain spells belonging to their very essence, which is many people's argument for their being overpowered. Guess what? My retort would be they are, at least in the same amount, underpowered: e.g. an opponent hero, with expert water magic and high enough spell power, could blast the energy elemental stack and kill them, not even having to send his own army to fight them. The same goes for Meteor shower for Magma Elementals etc.
The weakness of the 4 lvl and 5 lvl units is undeniable but what they lack in strength, make up in amounts. Meaning, if it's not the mere brute agression that will assure the victory for Conflux, then it's brains and strategy.
The return of the Phoenixes was very welcome, I missed them in the original HoMM 3.
The fact that Elementals finally got their own town was a saving grace for their reputation and a great idea to actually have the units that were mere wanderers for so long at your very disposal. Just as I wanted to recruit Genies on my own when I played HoMM1: the terribly hard-to-find lamp with 2-3 of them was not enough for me.
I cheer at the idea of the return of Conflux and I'll most likely buy the HoMM6 if it ever comes out with Elementals again. Their potential is not fully used up, big future may await this chronologically still young town. I say add two upgrades for each elemental, give them completely new, bizzare looks and, possibly, let an Elemental, not Phoenix, be the 7 lvl unit now. It can be achieved, the first big step was already made in the HoMM 3's Conflux.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 27, 2009 01:17 PM |
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The concept for the Conflux was good enough, the actual execution fell down though. The lineup was just slapped together (Phoeni are weak enough to warrant double production, Earth Elementals are pathetically slow, and Fairies would go better with elves than elementals)
and the heroes were forced (no Elemental Elementalists, all Planeswalkers focusing on creature bonuses and all Elementalists on spells).
There's also the issue of putting Water and Fire (or Earth and Air) Elementals in the same town, you might as well mix Angels and Devils
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crepus
Adventuring Hero
Nuclear Power Plant
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posted August 28, 2009 03:13 PM |
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I say thee NAY!
Hullo kids!
I don't like the fact of elementals being of different levels. Earth, Air, Water, Fire and also Light and Darkness should all be recruitable in elemental confluxes.
I did have another thought though:
In each town an Elemental Shrine can be built, choice of element depends on local terrain (no Fire Shrine on snow, no Water Shrine in the desert, no Light Shrine in subterranean places) and of what upgrade one would like in certain creatures.
My thought is that only one type of upgrade can be made for each level, but there will be two alternatives. One that is possible everywhere, one that only is possible if a specific Shrine has been built.
The X Shrine gives the spell "Summon X elemental" to the city Mage Guild, some type of defense perk and something that visiting heroes get until the end of their next combat.
An example:
For Inferno, the only terrain to build a Water Shrine is snowy terrain. This gives the possibility to Get the Ice Demon instead of the Horned Overseer - a demon with better stats, chilling touch and Circle of Winter instead of Explosion. The spell Summon Water Elemental is added to the city Mage Guild, and all defending creatures get 50% resistance against cold attacks and spells.
Whaddyathink?
Other fine examples you can come up with? Light and Darkness Elementals?
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Mater tua criceta fuit, et Pater tuo
redoluit bacarum sambucus.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 28, 2009 03:20 PM |
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Well I must admit the Ice Demon concept of the Infernepolis never attracted me.
I have played around with numerous models for Conflux. I deffinitely agree that the seperation of elementals over different levels is completely illogical and should not return.
I also toyed with the idea of linking it to the terrain, but not sure that's such a good idea, as it's something you have no influence on, which can be very annoying for player.
Another version would be to have you choose an element to tie town up on, so that you could choose either Earth Conflux, Air Conflux, Water Conflux or Fire Conflux, and then each version would have 7 different creatures. Would require an awful lot of creatures though. 
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What will happen now?
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Paulemile
Known Hero
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posted August 28, 2009 04:31 PM |
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I quite like Crepus' idea, but I'd rather link the shrines to factions (rather towns).
Each town can build his own elemental shrine (or maybe have the choice between two). Let's say Inferno can build earth or fire shrine, Tower air or water shrine, and so on.
To me, the terrain type is here to add bonuses or maluses to hired or summoned elementals. So it doesn't depends on the place where the shrine is built, but on the place where the battle (where elementals are involved) takes place.
It could be the same thing concerning all of the creatures.
So you get another secondary skill available for the heroes which gives bonuses or decreases maluses for creatures, depending on terrain 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 29, 2009 04:47 AM |
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Every town getting a shrine isn't a good idea, leave it to Conflux or leave it out altogether.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 29, 2009 11:50 AM |
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I agree that linking it to town would be a much more natural solution, as we already have the elemental connections for most towns, ie.:
Sylvan = Earth Dragons
Fortress = Fire Dragons
Nagas = Water
Dungeon = Darkness
Haven = Light
However, I agree with Matt II that a shrine for every faction would be aquard, I mean what would Haven do with Elementals in their line-up, except if you think Elementals in a broader sense, ie. Angel = "Light Elemental", in which case you already have these "shrines" in most towns in terms of the level 7 dwelling.
So no, I agree that it would be more fun to have a town that really specialices in Elemental Creatures. That's not saying the elemental connection cannot remain for the other factions in terms of Dragons etc., but I think the proper Elementals should be something different, belonging to Conflux.
As an alternative, I could accept them in Amademy, as Academy already has a strong tie with Summoning theme. In fact, one could easily move Golems to a mechanical faction and then strengthen the elemental base of the Academy line-up (Gargoyles, Djinns and Titans already have some elemental theme, and similar to the great mod SOD made with the Elemental Giants, one could improve on that).
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What will happen now?
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Heroe
Adventuring Hero
Heroic Survivor
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posted August 31, 2009 04:51 PM |
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Quote:
I hate to say it, but the H3 Conflux wasn't even supposed to be a town; as most of you know, it was whipped up in order to replace the infamous SF town called Forge (that was to be introduced in the Armageddon's Blade expansion pack).
My favorite part of the FAQ by Greg Fulton, the game developer:
Quote:
Q: WE DON'T LIKE THE ELEMENTAL TOWN.
A: You'll get the elemental town, and you'll like it.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
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I'm one of the Heroes who fight for glory, honor,might and magic... I am Heroe..
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Heroe
Adventuring Hero
Heroic Survivor
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posted August 31, 2009 04:53 PM |
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I thought Conflux was quite a cool town!
It was somethin different then the other towns!
Really like to see it back btu with some new features or somethin...
But I also think like no it's not neccesary if it replaces an other more nicer town..
But if it's in H6 as extra town it's ok by me!
So i am kinda neutral bout it
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I'm one of the Heroes who fight for glory, honor,might and magic... I am Heroe..
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rottenvenetic
Known Hero
Derusticated
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posted September 08, 2009 11:39 PM |
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There are a lot of cool things that could come out of an elements-themed Conflux town in Heroes 6. I didn't mind the H3 one that much, although it was quirky, but 5 ele's in the roster is a bit bland (though compare with Castle/Haven's 5 human units).
Maybe it would be possible to put all Elementals in 1 tier (maybe 2).
Unit: Elemental - Elemental Force/Manifest Element
Tier: 5
Growth per week: 3
Elemental and Manifest Element stats should be something like:
Attack 5
Defense 5
Damage 5-10
HP 50
Speed 4
Initiative 7
Elemental (so mind immune IIRC)
Costs 500 Gold
Elemental Force stats (and Manifest Element cost) if the above are used:
Attack 8
Defense 8
Damage 7-12
HP 60
Speed 4
Initiative 7
Elemental (so mind immune IIRC)
Costs 750 Gold
Manifest Elements receive a 25 Mana pool.
As you can see these are crap stats for a level 5er, especially one with such a heavy upgrade, so here is where it gets interesting.
When a fight starts, your Elementals change into either water, fire, earth or water elementals, depending on terrain (They retain their names, only adding the element as prefix, to distinguish between basic unit and upgrades).
In the Tactics phase you choose which type they change to from the two options available to the terrain of the fight (same as Summon Ele's spell works except it's your choice, since these units are sentient). If you have 2+ stacks they are all changed into the same elemental type however.
They preserve their stats and receive bonus stats (and, for Manifests, spells) dependent on what they change into.
In this idea none of the Elementals have ranged attack capabilities.
Bonus stats (in brackets what Ele Forces get):
Air Element (Mobility) : Gives Flyer, small boost to Defense, Speed and Damage, very large speed boost, but leaves Attack as is and decreases HP a lot (cca -10).
Provides Flyer, No Enemy Retaliation, immunity to air-related spells including lightning stuff except Haste and its own Fickle Winds, Evasion from everything 20%.
Provides spells: Haste, Fickle Winds to Manifest Elements.
Fickle Winds improves speed (+2) and initiative (+20%) of friendly flyers; duration = f(Air ele's spellpower), or decreases them for enemy flyers by the same amount. It's cast on a specific target (must be Flyer) and costs 10 mana
Fire Element (Raw damage): Gives Fire Shield, fire immunity, small boost to Defense, Attack, Initiative and large boost to damage.
Provides spells: Eldritch Arrow, Empowered Eldritch Arrow, Damning Fire Brand to Elemental Manifests, as well as giving them Expert Sorcery (casting a spell takes only 70% of the creature's turn so it acts again sooner).
Damning Fire Brand: Cast on a single enemy unit, makes it take +100% damage from fire spells and abilities, and it STACKS with mark of fire (to grant +150%).
If the target is immune to fire, the Brand simply removes half of this immunity (turns it to 50% fire proof). Magic Immune targets are also made vulnerable to fire this way.
If the target is resistant to fire but not completely, the resistance amount is subtracted from the Brand's bonus. Costs 5 mana, a whole turn and the surprise effect of your fire damage.
Earth Element (Staying power): Gives Earth immunity, Taunt, Regeneration. Decreases Speed and Initiative, but boosts Defense and HP heavily. Also gains a bit of attack and damage.
Provides spells: Mass Endurance, Magic Immunity and +1 Mana to Manifest Elements.
Water Element (Mass damage): Gives Water immunity, ability to attack all adjacent enemies (primary target still retaliates, friends are unharmed) and small boni to all stats except HP which remain as they are.
Provides spells: Circle of Winter and Seismic Wave to Manifest Elements.
Seismic Wave: A click = fire spell like Armageddon that creates a massive seismic wave all over the battlefield. It moves from your side to the enemy's and moves all small creatures 2 tiles in this direction (first) and all large ones by 1 tile (afterwards), if they can be moved thus. It passes harmlessly through friendly units (only moving them) as they are forewarned, but damages any enemy unit (water damage) encountered and ends on that row if the unit is not wiped out (all units behind it are not affected in any way). It also damages enemy walls, and cannot be cast if the Water Manifest Elements are within your own walls.
Costs 16 mana, damage is slightly lower than Circle of Winter. Water immune units are not moved and, if enemies, block the spell on their row when it reaches them.
Summon Elementals won't affect these units and instead create a separate, unrelated elemental stack, possibly with different stats.
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