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| Thread: Spell Power makeover |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted February 08, 2009 12:28 PM |
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Edited by Ednaguy at 16:45, 17 Feb 2009.
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Spell Power makeover
In my opinion the Spell Power skill can sometimes be the most useless of the four primary skills, because it mainly only affects spell damage and duration. So my idea was to change some spells to make their effect more dependant on Spell Power. Here's an example of what I'm thinking on.
Divine Strenght
Causes the selected friendly unit to inflict more damage in combat. Spell Power determines the duration of effect.
Minimum damage is increased to min+t*(max-min), where t depends on Light Magic mastery and Spell Power. If the minimum damage goes higher than maximum damage, the extra damage will be added as maximum damage.
At no Mastery: t = 47.5%+0.25%*power, capped at 55%
At basic Mastery: t = 60%+0.5*power, capped at 75%
At advanced Mastery: t = 72.5%+0.75*power, capped at 95%
At expert Mastery: t = 90%+1*power, capped at 120%
Haste
Causes the selected friendly unit to act more frequently in combat. Spell Power determines the duration of effect.
Increases initiative of target creature. Effect depends on Light Magig mastery and Spell power.
At no Mastery: +(8%+0.2%*power) initiative, capped at 14%
At basic Mastery: +(17%+0.3%*power) initiative, capped at 26%
At advanced Mastery: +(26%+0.4%*power) initiative, capped at 38%
At expert Mastery: +(35%+0.5%*power) initiative, capped at 50%
Regeneration
[img]
Endurance
The target creature gains health regeneration on its turn. Does not work on Undead, Mechanical and Elemental creatures.
The target regenerates and resurrects at the beginning of its turn.
At no Mastery: target regenerates (20%+4%*power) of it's maximum hp, capped at 140%
At basic Mastery: target regenerates (30%+5%*power) of it's maximum hp, capped at 180%
At advanced Mastery: target regenerates (40%+6%*power) of it's maximum hp, capped at 220%
At expert Mastery: target regenerates (50%+7%*power) of it's maximum hp, capped at 260%
Endurance
Increases the selected friendly unit's defense strength. Spell Power determines the duration of effect.
Increases defence of target creature. Effect depends on Light Magig mastery and Spell power.
At no Mastery: +(2+Power/10) defence, capped at 5
At basic Mastery: +(5+Power/8) defence, capped at 9
At advanced Mastery: +(8+Power/7) defence, capped at 12
At expert Mastery: +(10+Power/6) defence, capped at 15
Cleansing
Dispels positive magic effects from enemy creatures and negative magic effects from friendly creatures. Checks against caster Spell Power to dispel effects, so casters with low Spell Power would be unlikely to dispel magic cast by casters with high Spell Power.
Total dispel chance = base% + (Dispeller_power - Original_Caster_power) * 3%
At no Mastery: base% = 40%
At basic Mastery: = base% = 60%
At advanced Mastery: = base% = 80%
At expert Mastery: = base% = 100%
Deflect Missile
Makes the selected friendly unit receive less damage from ranged attacks.
Damage reduction depends on Light Magic mastery and casters Spell Power, and is multiplicative with other ranged damage reductions.
At no Mastery: -(22.5%+0.25%*power) damage, capped at 30%
At basic Mastery: -(35%+0.5%*power) damage, capped at 50%
At advanced Mastery: -(47.5%+0.75%*power) damage, capped at 70%
At expert Mastery: -(60%+1%*power) damage, capped at 90%
Righteous Might
Increases the selected friendly unit's attack. Spell Power determines the duration of effect.
Increases Attack of target creature. Effect depends on Light Magic mastery and Spell power.
At no Mastery: +(2+Power/10) attack, capped at 5
At basic Mastery: t = +(5+Power/8) attack, capped at 9
At advanced Mastery: t = +(8+Power/7) attack, capped at 12
At expert Mastery: t = +(10+Power/6) attack, capped at 15
Weakness
Causes the selected enemy unit to inflict less damage in combat. Spellpower determines the duration of effect.
Maximum damage is decreased to min+t*(max-min), where t depends on Dark Magic mastery and spell power. If the maximum damage goes lower than minimum damage, the minimum damage will reduced as well (can't go lower than 1)
At no Mastery: t = 47.5%+0.25%*power, capped at 55%
At basic Mastery: t = 60%+0.5*power, capped at 75%
At advanced Mastery: t = 72.5%+0.75*power, capped at 95%
At expert Mastery: t = 90%+1*power, capped at 120%
Slow
Makes target enemy stack take fewer actions in combat.
Decreases initiative of target creature. Effect depends on Dark Magig mastery and Spell power.
At no Mastery: -25% initiative
At basic Mastery: -(28%+0.2%*power) initiative, capped at 34%
At advanced Mastery: -(32%+0.3%*power) initiative, capped at 41%
At expert Mastery: -(36%+0.4%*power) initiative, capped at 48%
Vulnerability
Destroys armor of target enemy stack, reducing its defense. Can be cast several times on a single stack, but defense will not go lower than zero.
Decreases defence of target depending on Dark Magic mastery and spell power.
At no Mastery: -(2+Power/10) defence, capped at 5
At basic Mastery: -(3+Power/9) defence, capped at 7
At advanced Mastery: -(4+Power/8) defence, capped at 9
At expert Mastery: -(5+Power/7) defence, capped at 11
Decay
The target creature loses health on its turn. Does not work on Undead, Mechanical and Elemental creatures.
The target receives damage equal to a part of it's maximum hp at the beginning of its turn.
At no Mastery: target receives (50%+1%*power) of it's maximum hp, capped at 80%
At basic Mastery: target receives (60%+2%*power) of it's maximum hp, capped at 120%
At advanced Mastery: target receives 70%+3%*power) of it's maximum hp, capped at 160%
At expert Mastery: target receives (80%+4%*power) of it's maximum hp, capped at 200%
Confusion
Makes creatures in target enemy stack forget what they are doing on a battlefield. Some of the affected creatures will forget to use shooting attacks and retaliation strikes adn even their meele attack (The spell does not work on undead, elemental and mechanical units.).
The portion of the target stack forgetting to act depends on Dark Magic mastery and spell power. If more than 100% of the stack forgets how to act, the extra % vil reduce meele damage instead
At no Mastery: (45%+0.5%*Spell power) of the target stack will forget how to act. Capped at 60%
At basic Mastery: (54%+0.6%*Spell power) of the target stack will forget how to act. Capped at 72%
At advanced Mastery: (83%+0.7%*Spell power) of the target stack will forget how to act. Capped at 105%
At expert Mastery: (92%+0.8%*Spell power) of the target stack will forget how to act. Capped at 115%
Suffering
Decreases the selected enemy unit's attack. Spell Power determines the duration of effect.
Decreases Attack of target creature. Effect depends on Dark magic mastery and Spell power.
At no Mastery: -3 attack
At basic Mastery: -(5+Power/10) attack, capped at 9
At advanced Mastery: -(8+Power/9) attack, capped at 12
At expert Mastery: -(11+Power/8) attack, capped at 15
Frenzy
Drives target stack of creatures frenzy. Frenzied stack considers all other creatures and war machines its personal enemies and attacks the nearest one with redoubled rage.
Duration = (Effect/target creature level) rounds.Level of creatures is 1-7 for normal, and 2-8 for upgraded creatures.
At no Mastery: Effect= 0.75+0.05*Spell power, capped at 2.25.
At basic Mastery: Effect= 1+0.1*Spell power, capped at 4
At advanced Mastery: Effect= 1.25+0.2*Spell power, capped at 7.25.
At expert Mastery: Effect= 1.5+0.3*Spell power, capped at 10.5.
Fist of Wrath
Summons magical fist to deal non-elemental physical damage to target enemy creature. This spell ignores magic resistance and protection from magic.
Damage increases with heroes attack.
At no Mastery: = (20+4*Power)+2*Attack
At basic Mastery: = (30+6*Power)+3*Attack
At advanced Mastery: = (40+8*Power)+4*Attack
At expert Mastery: = (50+10*Power)+5*Attck
Wasp Swarm
Summons a swarm of insects to stun the selected enemy creature (ATB value may get negative). (The spell does not work on undead, elemental and mechanical units.)
Stun effect depends on Summoning Magic mastery and on casters Spell Power.
At no Mastery: 0.1+0.01*Power ATB reduction, capped at 0.4.
At basic Mastery: 0.2+0.01*Power ATB reduction, capped at 0.5.
At advanced Mastery: 0.4+0.01*Power ATB reduction, capped at 0.7.
At expert Mastery: 0.6+0.01*Power ATB reduction, capped at 0.9.
Phantom Forces
Copies the selected friendly unit (only one copy can be made).The copy can't cast any spell or use any ability. The Health, Damage, and initiative of the creature depends on casters Summoning Magic mastery and Spell Power.
Only one copy of each creature can be made. At the start of the combat the creature will receive +0-0.25 ATB bonus.
Damage, hp, and initiative of cloned stack is:
At no Mastery: 10%+0.5%*Power, capped at 25%
At basic Mastery: 15%+1%*Power, capped at 45%
At advanced Mastery: 20%+1.5%*Power, capped at 65%
At expert Mastery: 25%+2%*Power, capped at 85%
of the original stack's damage, hp, and initiative.
Summon Elementals
Summons fire, earth, water or air elementals (depending on the battlefield terrain) to fight for the hero's cause.
The number of the summoned creatures depends on Spell power and Summoning magic mastery of the Caster. The summoned Elementals will get bonuses depending on Spell power and Summoning magic mastery of the Caster.
Numbers of summoned elementals are:
At no Mastery: 2+0.25*power
At basic Mastery: 3+0.5*power
At advanced Mastery: 4+0.75*power
At expert Mastery: 5+1*power
Bonuses of summoned creatures are:
For fire elementals:
At no Mastery: +0.2*power Attack and defence, capped at 4.
At basic Mastery: +1+0.3*power Attack and defence, capped at 10.
At advanced Mastery: +2+0.4*power Attack and defence, capped at 14.
At expert Mastery: +3+0.5*power Attack and defence, capped at 18.
For earth elementals:
At no Mastery: +0.66%*power Bonus to Initiative and Speed, capped at 20%.
At basic Mastery: +1 to Initiative, + 1 to Speed
+1.1*power Bonus to Initiative, capped at 33%.
At advanced Mastery: +2 to Initiative, + 1 to Speed
+1.43*power Bonus to Initiative, capped at 45%.
At expert Mastery: +3 to Initiative, + 2 to Speed.
+1.66*power Bonus to Initiative, capped at 50%.
For air elementals:
At no Mastery: +0.2*power hp, capped at 6,
+0.1*power maximum damage, capped at 3.
At basic Mastery: +1+0.3*power hp, capped at 10,
+1+0.15*power maximum damage, capped at 6.
At advanced Mastery: +2+0.4*power hp, capped at 14,
+2+0.2*power maximum damage, capped at 9.
At expert Mastery: +3+0.5*power hp, capped at 18,
+3+0.3*power maximum damage, capped at 12.
For water elementals:
At no Mastery: +0.33%*power bonus to Spell Power, capped at 10%,
+0.1*power mana, capped at 3.
At basic Mastery: +0.66%*power bonus to Spell Power, capped at 20%,
+1+0.2*power mana, capped at 7.
At advanced Mastery: +1%*power bonus to Spell Power, capped at 30%,
+2+0.3*power mana, capped at 11.
At expert Mastery: +1.33%*power bonus to Spell Power, capped at 40%,
+3+0.4*power mana, capped at 15.
The spells might seem a little overpowered, please tell me if you think so, and if you have any suggestions/idea about something that could be better.
Skills
Light Magic
No mastery: Allows hero to learn lvl 1-2 light magic spells and cast them at no mastery. Duration of all lvl. 1-3 light magic spells is 3 turns.
 Basic Light Magic: Allows hero to learn lvl 1-3 light magic spells and cast them at basic mastery. Duration of all lvl. 1-3 light magic spells is 4 turns.
 Advanced Light Magic: Allows hero to learn lvl 1-4 spells light magic and cast them at advanced mastery. Duration of all lvl. 1-3 light magic spells is 5 turns.
 Expert Light Magic: Allows hero to learn all light magic spells and cast them at expert mastery. Duration of all lvl. 1-3 light magic spells is6 turns.
Perks:
 Master of Abjuration
Grants area effect to Regeneration, Cleansing and Deflect Missile spells, but increases the cost of these spells by 50% and reduces the effect of these spells by 33%.
 Master of Blessings
Grants mass effects to Righteous Might and Endurance spells, but increases the cost of these spells by 50% and reduces the effect of these spells by 50%. Adds +4 to effective spellpower of Resurrection spell.
 Master of Wrath
Grants mass effects to Haste and Divine Strenght spells, but increases the cost of these spells by 50% and reduces the effect of these spells by 50%. Adds +4 to effective spellpower of Word of Light spell.
I think this system might make players consider Spell Power a little higher. I've tried to make all spells equal with their former effect when you have a Spell Power of 10, and I hope this idea won't make anything too unbalanced. And I'm sorry if somone has come up with this idea already, I searched the last 20 pages and couldn't find anything like this.
EDIT: Nerfed
EDIT 2: Added some Dark Magic spells. Don't know if I nerfed Frenzy too much
EDIT 3: Added basic light magic skills.
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted February 08, 2009 12:56 PM |
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This would be great but not with Mass spells.
Imagine Necro/Warlock with 30 sp, that gives +16 Endurance +60%Haste. And that's only on Adv Mastery from perks
If they get lucky and are offered Light Magic it goes up +20def and +80%init
Deflect Missle makes shooters ineffective at 25SP 
You should add some caps to it, like Spellpower stops adding bonuses after SP = 15/20
This will hit mostly at Haven and Inferno (if same mechanics applied to Dark) and while I have no problems with Haven I'm concerned about Inferno
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted February 08, 2009 02:20 PM |
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Yeah, I guess I'll have to nerf things a little... Wait for updates.
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted February 08, 2009 04:32 PM |
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Now this is reasonable! Getting 10 spellpower with artifacts isn't a big problem if you want you spells to make a difference and in exchange you'll have to sacrifice some att/def stats for them
I like every single side of it
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none of my business.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted February 08, 2009 05:35 PM |
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This is very similar to an idea I had once as well, here (scroll down to the spells section, my thread was about other balance stuff than spells as well.
btw, I think something really needs to be done about the Mass spells. They shouldn't use only half the ATB, they should be cast as usual spells. Why Nival did that with only half-ATB usage, I have no idea. Where do they come up with this stuff? What has a Mass spell to do with faster casting? (other than casting it on all your creatures obviously, which is already a major casting-speed improvement)
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted February 08, 2009 05:45 PM |
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O, sry, didn't see that I was just looking after threads with names like "New Spell system", "my spell idea" etc. And yes, it's kind of stupid that a hero uses less atb-value when casting mass spells. And IMO mass spells shouldn't neccesarily cost more, but have only 3/4 or 2/3 of normal effect.
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted February 08, 2009 09:54 PM |
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This I like. Sure, it'll be more complicated than what we've got, but better as well (good to see you're raising the SP effects as well as the base effects).
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted February 08, 2009 10:17 PM |
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Well since I had the same ideas before, this means that I agree with most of what you did. Even more so, your idea for Divine Strength to increase the maximum damage after going through 100% is great, I didn't think of that. 
But, why does Knowledge determine the duration of the spell? Not a big deal anyway, since duration is usually very high, but it should still be Spellpower (or maybe a flat value, let's say 5 rounds)
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted February 09, 2009 02:43 PM |
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Quote:
But, why does Knowledge determine the duration of the spell? Not a big deal anyway, since duration is usually very high, but it should still be Spellpower (or maybe a flat value, let's say 5 rounds)
Well, my first thought when I made this, was that Spell Power would get a little to OP (and it did, as my first proposal was very imbalanced), so to make Knowledge a little better too, I thought that they could decide how long most buffs/debuffs would last. But after I nerfed this, it's not really necessary, though.
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted February 09, 2009 04:54 PM |
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In my opinion it would be better with a fixed duration like 5 rounds. Not too long but not too short either. Because as it is currently (1 round per spellpower) the duration is so ridiculous (most of the time) that you could consider it permanent.
There's also the few situations with a might-faction that the duration is too low (I mean, how it is now), which is no longer the need since knights and the like already have their spells weaker with this system.
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted February 09, 2009 04:58 PM |
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How about having the lenght depending on mastery?
I.e:
No mastery: 3 rounds
Basic mastery: 6 rounds
Advanced mastery: 9 rounds
Expert: 12 rounds
Of course this doesn't have to apply for all blesses/curses
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted February 09, 2009 05:00 PM |
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That's a good idea as well by 12 rounds is just too much in my opinion. There's almost no fight taking that long.
Maybe 4, 5, 6, 7 or something like that, I dunno...
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted February 09, 2009 05:06 PM |
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Edited by Ednaguy at 17:11, 09 Feb 2009.
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Maybe a little more diversity (yeah, 12 might be a little much). Maybe smt like 3/5/7/9
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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DarkCrystal
Promising
Supreme Hero
Staright out of line
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posted February 11, 2009 02:19 PM |
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Nice idea indeed! maybe make something like this with Summoning magic, I mean for ex. make summoned creatures not only more in quantity, but make them stronger? (I know, it's imbalansed, so quantity decreases.)
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Sometimes I'm about to yell: "It is flat you idiots!" But I don't wanna die in fire.
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted February 11, 2009 02:47 PM |
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Quote:
Nice idea indeed! maybe make something like this with Summoning magic, I mean for ex. make summoned creatures not only more in quantity, but make them stronger? (I know, it's imbalansed, so quantity decreases.)
Great idea! Then you wont get the lousy Earth Elementals. Didn't think of that.
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted February 11, 2009 03:11 PM |
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Well the Phoenix already works like that, doesn't it? So you're talking about the Summon Elementals spell? Sure, I think it would be better to make their overall power increase with Spellpower, but also a bit the numbers.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 17, 2009 07:47 PM |
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I think overall this idea is good, but the numbers should be nerfed even further for it to make sense. Problem is that now, the Light / Dark spells are well overpowered, for instance Mass Righteous Might giving all units +12 Attack even with very low Spellpower.
I would rather suggest something like, for Expert Righteous Might, just to give an example:
At expert Mastery: t = [4 + Power/4] attack, capped at 12.
This means that low spellpowers give a quite moderate increase (SP 4 = +5, SP 8 = +6, SP 12 = +7) which high spellpowers give considerable increases (SP 20 = +9, SP 24 = +10, SP > 32 = +12).
Considering that +12 Attack corresponds to +60 % damage (!), I think it's only fair that you need a very high spellpower to obtain this bonus, and even a "small" +5 bonus corresponds to +25 % damage, which is same as Retribution with +5 Leadership!
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted February 17, 2009 08:16 PM |
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Quote:
Considering that +12 Attack corresponds to +60 % damage (!)
Not quite, depends on how high the Attack and Defense values are (of the creature and the enemy, obviously). If the difference is 0, then yes it is 60% more damage. But as attack increases over target's defense, it drops in effectiveness.
A simple example:
A creature with damage 10 and attack 10 attacks a creature with defense 0. It deals 15 damage. With Righteous Might it gets 22 attack, which leads to a total damage of 21.
21 / 15 = 1.4 (only 40% in this case)
If the target had 10 defense, then Righteous Might would deal 60% extra damage.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 17, 2009 08:55 PM |
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Am I mistaken when I thought the damage calculation formula was simply scaling with (A - D)?
EDIT: Oh, here it is. Damage formula is:
Damage = Stack_Size * random(min_dmg, max_dmg) * [ 1 + 0.05*(A-D) ]
Which means if Attack is transformed from A > A* = A + 12, damage becomes:
Damage* = Stack_Size * random(min_dmg, max_dmg) * [ 1 + 0.05*(A*-D) ] =>
Damage* = Stack_Size * random(min_dmg, max_dmg) * [ 1 + 0.05*(A+12-D) ] =>
Damage* = Stack_Size * random(min_dmg, max_dmg) * [ 1 + 0.05*(A-D) + 0,6 ] =>
Damage* = Damage + Stack_Side * random(min_dmg, max_dmg) * 0,6 =>
Damage* = Damage + 0,6 * Base Damage
So you are right, the 60 % added damage is only 60 % of the base damage - i.e. your bonus from Attack score is not increased.
That's interesting, really, you usually see it quoted the other way around, but although it's still potent, it's much less powerfull.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted February 17, 2009 08:58 PM |
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No, the formula is simply:
Damage * (1 + 0.05 * (Att-Def))
Try it yourself, and see that I didn't make any mistakes 
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