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Heroes Community > MapHaven Guild > Thread: [WoG] Time of Prophecy
Thread: [WoG] Time of Prophecy This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT»
angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 22, 2009 08:45 PM

[WoG] Time of Prophecy

Just playing this cool map made by Salamandre.

It's pretty funny as of yet, have to look around very well to discover all the secrets.

First fight was already quite cool, needed some reloads till the best setup was found (ended up in losing 18 sorceress).

Now I am in the middle of month 3 and killed all the guys in Avalon except Deemer.

He is one tough guy I have to admit. I have yet to find a way to beat him without any losses. I don't have enough sorceresses to kill his 7 stacks of 100 diamond golems each in round 1, and on the other hand, his armageddon kills more of my ladies than I can ressurect each round (he kills 33, I resurrect 27/28). He has 600 spellpoints, I have 300. My resurrection costs 10 spellpoints, his armageddon 20. So I can cast 30 times and he aswell.

I have to try other tactics it seems. Will give more information when I managed to kill him...so you will probably never hear from me again
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 22, 2009 10:16 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 00:03, 23 Apr 2009.

Deemer's spell power is not fixed, but his experience is. So he can have +/- 10 spell power from a game to another (random), thus not always possible to win without casualties.


There is a scroll not far from him, protection from fire.

Sorceresses in one stack, cast protection+ shoot first turn, then move them every turn+ressurect while the clones kill the golems. If have enough sorceresses the automatic clones will kill half of a stack every turn. When you move the real stack on the right side, make sure there is a free square in front of them, so they can clone again on next turn.
If you bought 2 attacks from emerald tower previously(25 mithrils), then the clones will kill an entire stack.

At least that was my tactic, but I think the Pacifist found another one, but similar in casualties. You will lose some of them, but not more than 20 if everything goes well. If you are lucky and the random set up gave him knowledge instead spell power, then can be done with 0 casualties, but not always.
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 23, 2009 09:21 AM
Edited by angelito at 09:22, 23 Apr 2009.

This was my tactic too. I found the scroll due to the hint of course. First attack vs Deemer I had splitted my ladies into 6 stacks...but after the first round I saw this tactic will be a big mistake
And I recognized what the spell scroll was for...

So it was the obvious solution to put them all into 1 stack, because that way you can resurrect nearly all losses.

I will try again tonight and see how it works.

Btw...I have 430 sorceress against Deemer. Is that ok, or normally you got more at that point?

(I lost some single ladies coz I made stacks of single creeps for distraction after I realized I could use the clones for that too...)
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 23, 2009 11:01 AM

I can't check my saves because my HD is dead. But I remember having max sorceresses against Deemer (max= no casualties until that point and never return on my steps to recruit more because there is a hidden time limit-->Apocalypse, an invincible AI hero goes out month 9 and destroy everything)

I remember losing 2-3 sorcs when taking Gommorah (that hero is hard to beat without sacrificing some baits)

Glad to hear you like the map. Are the emerald towers working? ( a few players reported they not working if WoG setting not to default before starting)
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 23, 2009 11:10 AM

Yes, the Towers work perfectly.

But I have had some frozen Games already (with upcoming ERM error messages), similar to those which appear in my random maps.
But my WoG settings are set on default, and I don't have any patch installed.

One crash I remember was not long ago, when I killed MadButcher (the guy with 700 crusaders). North of this guy is a quest guard seeking Tyris, guarding an arena behind.
To save some movement points, I only opened the quest guard with tyris, but then went west to flag the Ore mine with her. Same turn I visited the arena with my main, and the error message appeared right there with many numbers and script formulas, and one text passage read "...positiona tyris...blabla".

I've reloaded autosave and made the same moves, but this time all went fine and tyris disappeared after my main went towrads the arena.

Other errors appeared on different actions.
I learned my lesson. I save on start of every day now...
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 23, 2009 11:31 AM

You got the error message because you left Tyris on the ore mine while visiting with the main the arena. The script says: delete Tyris (as object) when Morgane is visiting the arena. But as Tyris (object) was visiting and standing on another object (mine) the game got confused about which object to delete and spammed you.

So far WoG can't make the difference if two objects are overlapping so it is better to avoid such moves. I never get crashes because I got accustomed over time to how it works.
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 23, 2009 12:32 PM

Nope, Tyris was not standing on the ore mine. She was on her way back to the quest guard again.
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Koni
Koni


Hired Hero
posted April 23, 2009 12:51 PM
Edited by Koni at 12:57, 23 Apr 2009.

Quote:
I can't check my saves because my HD is dead.


Thanks to your kindness I can check all your saves. You did the Deemer fight with 417 sorcs and 2 arch mages in m3/w3/d2 (day 72).

Compared with my save: I did it on day 88 with 463 sorcs, without losses (but with Salamandre's tactical help ).
angelito, do you play the German version (available in Drachenwald)?

Salamandre, sorry for your misfortune. I hope you could save all your work, esp. on your new project.    
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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted April 23, 2009 01:02 PM

I checked my saves : first time entered the catacombs at 2-2-4 with 507 sorc and left with 506 (lost 1 to shakti). Second time (hard version of ToP) I entered with 491 on 3-1-1 with no sorc clones (private limitation). In any case the sorc should be developped very offensively (I had +5 att, prayer and 19 base damage). +5 att better than damage at this stage of the game (and earlier) but later only take + dam of course. That way you can kill Deemer in first round in most cases.

So it all depends on how you developped your ladies .
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 23, 2009 03:13 PM
Edited by angelito at 15:56, 23 Apr 2009.

How could you have 507 sorceress that time? That's about 75 more than I have, I have never lost that much till I got to Deemer. And I am there middle month 3 now. I'm not sure when I entered, but was start month 3 I guess.

And I didn't lose any sorc vs those other guys, including Shakti.

My tactic vs Shakti: After the first turn, I blinded 1 of his peasants near the top left corner (I didn't know he clones this guy after every 4th round in my first try...lol). Then I surrounded this guy with my sorcery clones *and my enchanters of course!!* and just let 1 spot free in top row. This way, he was kinda "prisoned" with his peasant and his clone, and I could resurrect all my ladies till I shot him down.

I play the german version from drachenwald, yes.
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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted April 23, 2009 03:27 PM

I have to check back home, my save name is something like ToP-final-catacombs-2-2-4. I remember at one point increasing the growth of sorceress towers (fights were harder too there) but basic growth was 9 instead of 6 but also I had to sacrifice 9 sorc each time then. in the long run it's interesting. I think in my version Shakti is impossible to beat without losses. I have to check tonight. Salamandre made him stronger in last versions .
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 23, 2009 03:55 PM

But some fights are pretty luck related I think, refering to the random spells those ladies cast when they hit. If I wouldn't have "hypnotized" both stacks of basiliks in 2nd round, fight vs Brog would have been much harder....
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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted April 23, 2009 04:12 PM

Yes, that's what I don't like in Heroes skills like morale and luck. I don't want to be dependent of that but sometimes it adds some fun when it happens at unexpected moments. I don't like "block" either, you cannot count on it and it can screw a well planned tactic fight. I decided after a while to accept a little uncertainty but I restart fights too easy to prove to myself  that it was doable also without luck . For the sorceress there is a probability based on nbr of sorceress on a stack (in the Wog features page) :

* The Sorceress may cast non-direct damage spells on its target following a ranged attack. All spells last 3 rounds (except Disrupting Ray and Acid Breath which are permanent) and normal spell immunities apply. Gods Representatives and Messengers have complete immunity to Sorceress spells.

   The chance of a spell being cast is 20% + 2% for each Sorceress in a stack. The type of spell cast depends on the number of Sorceresses as follows:

Few to Several Sorceresses:
MISFORTUNE, DISRUPTING RAY, DISEASE or WEAKNESS with 25% chance each

Pack of Sorceresses:
SLOW, CURSE or DISPEL with 20% chance each
MISFORTUNE, DISRUPTING RAY, DISEASE or WEAKNESS with 10% chance each

Lots of Sorceresses:
POISON, SORROW, ACIDBREATH or FORGETFULNESS with 15% chance each
SLOW, CURSE or DISPEL with 8% chance each
MISFORTUNE, DISRUPTING RAY, DISEASE or WEAKNESS with 4% chance each

Horde to Legion of Sorceresses:
POISON, SORROW, ACIDBREATH or FORGETFULNESS with 11% chance each
SLOW, CURSE or DISPEL with 8% chance each
HYPNOTIZE, BLIND, BERSERK or AGE with 4% chance each
MISFORTUNE, DISRUPTING RAY, DISEASE or WEAKNESS with 4% chance each

For Shakti, I'm not sure I remember well now but I thought we gain advanced earth only after beating him. I played different versions so it's maybe different now. For the hard version I played only with enchanters (till the end of the game) so I certainly could not save a few sorceress there. Have to check the saves ...
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 23, 2009 04:43 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 16:48, 23 Apr 2009.

The random spells are only a fun factor bonus. All combats were tested without any random spell used.

For Bron basilisks there is no need to hypnotize them, but it is always fun when it happens, because it will make the combat shorter. Once they are slowed and Bron runs out of mana (very fast) they will be occupied with clones while the real stack shoot.

My order: blind flies and block lizards with a bait, then blind lizards after shoot every turn until they are dead. Then basilisks, and at the end surround blinded flies with clones, cast slow, move my stacks so they can't be reach, and it is over in a few turns. It is not always easy because Bron has expert resistance.

All the map has to be completed with the same creature for each fight. So the sorceresses were the perfect choice because of their random spells. But it was more a aesthetic choice than a tactic one, as we can't rely only on those spells to win.
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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted April 23, 2009 06:18 PM
Edited by pacifist at 18:19, 23 Apr 2009.

Rectification : it was 2-4-4 and 507 sorc and 3-1-3 (hard version) with 491. No growth bonus was applied yet at this moment. Had 311 sorc vs Clancy, the rest are from the Madbutcher area. Shakti has tactics too so no clones first round, he instantly kills 1 sorceress.
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Koni
Koni


Hired Hero
posted April 23, 2009 06:39 PM

Quote:
Salamandre made him stronger in last versions .


I can assure, that the German version is based on Salamandre's last given version. I guess it was his last update.
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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted April 23, 2009 06:48 PM

Yes I found the problem, it's because I took tactics before fighting Shakti, I should have not taken it so the clones appear in first round. And for the second version (hard ToP) I only took enchanters so no way to protect the sorceress. It's ok, then only I was a little masochist it seems .
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 23, 2009 07:03 PM

Ok...tried it again. And my only luck was, the enchanters casted mass slow first turn. This gave my main stack the possibility to shoot 4 rounds and kill 4 stacks before forced to fly away instead of shooting. The clone of my ladies are only 86 at the beginning, could kill around 40 golems. Later, they are a bit less, and even without broken arrow, they kill around 45-50 golems each round at most.

His armageddon deals 2170 damage, which kills 32 sorceress (with protection of fire casted of course!). My resurrection brings back 25 ladies. So I lose 7 ladies each round.

I won this fight with exactly 400 ladies left, means I lost 30. But without mass slow, I would have lost more than hundred I assume, coz I would have to fly away much more often with my main stack, and that means my clones are the only shooters and they need too much time.

Stats of my ladies:
- attack 17 (in fight they have +5 due to hero speciality, and hero herself has 14 attack, so they have 36 attack in fight)
- defense 13 (+5 due to speciality, and +4 from hero, makes 22 in fight)
- Damage 19
- speed 12 (14 coz of 2 arties)

Stats of main hero: 14-4-28-30

Is this just meant to be a bit lossy?
Btw. The date of this map (which is named Time of Prophecy_GER) is 06.03.2009

So I guess I got the latest version.
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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted April 23, 2009 07:40 PM

Aie, it seems you have a problem with Wog options or your sorceress are not experienced ? You should have +9 att/def too with stack experience. I had 54 att in fight with 14 att from Morgana, +5 from emerald tower, + 4 from prayer (sorcery school) + 5 from special Morgana + 9 from stack experience. Maybe send the save to Salamandre he can see what's wrong with your setup. It seems the emerald towers work well but you should have stack experience too.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 23, 2009 09:19 PM

The hard version was not released to public. Only The Pacifist has it.
Anyway could you post here a picture of your sorceresses experience box? Are they ACE level or experience system is not working (which I doubt as I never saw it)?
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