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Heroes Community > Tournament of Honor > Thread: No RuleZ is the only way to go !
Thread: No RuleZ is the only way to go ! This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
Frank
Frank


Promising
Known Hero
posted December 26, 2001 06:00 PM
Edited By: Frank on 26 Dec 2001

No RuleZ is the only way to go !

There are several ways to mislead your opponent by making some rules before the game starts.  I don`t know them all for some players are very ressourcefull in that department but I sure can share 1 of them with you now.

* No level 3/4 as a main.

This has to be one of the laimest because the understanding of that rule can differ alot from one player to another.

The worse I`ve seen is this interpretation: your opponent will attack you with deamer and use meteor on you telling you that deamer isn`t their main...  Why?  Simply because one of their other hero has more xps and therefore deamer isn`t to be considered has their main hero!  

The problem with level 3/4 spells isn`t the hero that starts with it.  It`s the spell the problem !  Having such a great spell has chain lightning / meteor shower / ressurect / prayer / animate day 1 is a powerfull asset indeed.  It`s not an automatic win, far from that.  But it helps a lot.  Especially if you don`t expect your opponent to use it week 1 !  So expect your opponent to still use the spell using a scholar to transfer the spell.  That seems to be the most widely accepted interpretation of the rule.

Personnaly, when I think that no lvl 3/4 hero will lead to a better game I do not use hero`s lvl 3/4 spells at all.  Not even in fights against neutral monsters.

More to come...  

- Frank

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andiangelsla...
andiangelslayer


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
posted December 26, 2001 06:57 PM

not again...and please not more to come sigh, i cant hear it anymore


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Frank
Frank


Promising
Known Hero
posted December 26, 2001 07:16 PM
Edited By: Frank on 26 Dec 2001

Andi, it may interest people to know how you play the game?  And besides, it wasn`t implicit but this tread was meant to people who can actually do other things then whine & thrash-talk !  So please, keep your frustration, your anger, your whatever to yourself and let people enjoy a friendly and constructive tread.  Can you do that?

- Frank

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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted December 26, 2001 07:20 PM

Yep youīre right

That rule should be either "No level 4 or 3 spell speciality heroes at all" or you are free to use them, just not as main.

Most of the time its the people that dont play dungeon or tower that want the rule, so feel free to counter it with  a "No armourer speciality" rule, or something that hurts their town hero of choice.

I believe in a mininum of rules, and if not that, that you get to set one rule each until both are happy.

I counter "no diplo" with "no necro" and so on.

The rules I believe make interesting randoms are:
No carto, no grail, no diplo. And that you allow restarts when the map gets whacky.

Sure I play wihtout those rules too. In my most recent random this guy refused to play if I didnīt allow diplo. So I allowed it, started with adela, and attacked him week 5 with 16 black knights, 50 ogre magi, 6 angels, and 36 hydras and 7 22 33 24 stats =)

Then he said that he probably should have agreed to no diplo =)

Some information that I have:
When someone says no 4th.. donīt play them, they have no honour.
When someone says "You quit, you lose" donīt play them. They only care about points.
And so on.

I can play anything with no rules, but I prefer random maps, because on toh maps, the rules are coded into the map, and that is just as bad.

Random map no rules anyone?




____________
I am the hope of the universe... I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace... I am protector of the innocent... I am the light in the darkness... I am truth.

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wiggy_wam
wiggy_wam


Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
posted December 26, 2001 07:39 PM

Quote:
not again...and please not more to come sigh, i cant hear it anymore




you know, you don't have to read it andi.  if you are worried that these types of threads will pollute the message board, then simply contribute to a different productive, thread.

complaining of a thread will not lead to a solution of the thread, nor the topic.
____________
- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models.  Well ... the ones his age (18-26)  

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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 26, 2001 10:01 PM

Love to play with no rules...

But on random maps you cant do it, and take them seriously. some would say you cant take them seriously anyway, but with a little planning, and knowing what to regulate, games on random can be great. The big ones u have to ban I think are diplo, necro heroes, cartographer and scrolls. Plus a lttle knowledge of the templates and you have no problem.
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Myctteakyshd

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andiangelsla...
andiangelslayer


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
posted December 27, 2001 12:27 AM

heh, no i dont need to read it thats true, but is the 455636 thread about rules really needed?

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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted December 27, 2001 02:34 AM

well..

Quote:
heh, no i dont need to read it thats true, but is the 455636 thread about rules really needed?

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Frank
Frank


Promising
Known Hero
posted December 27, 2001 08:19 AM

I think it is needed.  Many people join toh on a daily basis.  Let`s put the best chances on their side by informing them on what`s to expect from rules bargaining...  

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Mocara
Mocara


Famous Hero
what?
posted December 27, 2001 08:30 AM

H to the Izzo...

As long as a member of the HC sits in the Zone and says things like "Only pussies play hit and run" and "Armageddon is for wimps"...making it impossible for new players to form their own opinions and misrepresenting the values of ToH then threads like this will always be needed.

-Mocara
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andiangelsla...
andiangelslayer


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
posted December 27, 2001 08:40 AM

mocara, you dont let 1 chance pass to make clear how much you hate me and how much it sux for you that im on HC, well thats your prob, im sick of arguing with you, tell that your friends in private and stop it on public places and leave me alone ok
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wiggy_wam
wiggy_wam


Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
posted December 27, 2001 09:45 AM

to be in the Honor Council is a position of authority, and with it comes certain responsibilities .... and influence.

With a little authority, one could easily mislead or influence someone into believing an incorrect value.  Such is sometimes called abusing power.

Sometimes I wish I didn't receive an honor medal, or have so many games on record, only because now some people (especially recruits) look up to me for it, and ask me for advice, tips, opinions, etc..
I must ask, do all these metals, ranks, positions make me a better player? or have a more valid / important voice? ... no, and no.

I'm not sure what the duties of being on the Honor Council are, but if one is to ALWAYS be honorable, then ... that would kinda suck, because you couldn't even joke around for fun or express feelings without misleading someone.

I like to sometimes mislead newbies for fun.  Just look at blub_lover's postings.  I usually use a different name so others don't take me seriously and instead label (the other name) stupid.

Back to the original topic:
When it comes to rules, as I have stated before:
- Some use rules as a tool of fun.
- Some use rules as a tool of advantage.
beware.

In my opinion, I believe that additional rules' relation to "honor" is relative, not objective.  In other words, I don't believe that there IS a rule that must be added in order to have an "honorable" game.

I guess the best example would be this:
I was playing a random map vs. SoS (another honor medalist).  We played 2 games in a row, and we had rules like:
- if meet week 1, restart
- both players must start with equal # of creature dwellings
- no grail, no carto
- no first day rush
I won the first game, and on the second (3 hours later), he was Necro, I was Tower.
In the first 2 weeks we were both stuck behind big monsters.  3rd week, he broke through, and grabbed treasures, raising skeletons again, while I was still stuck.  So with four scouts and a main having nothing to do, I thought, "what the hell, I might as well check these obelisks" (at this time, I forgot about the rule stated 5 hours ago about no grail)

After four obelisks, I recognize that the grail is in my territory, so I have everyone digging.  After 7 days and 11 dig attempts using 3 heroes, I found the grail!    A few days later, he defeated my main (who was only level 6) and headed for my main castle, when he discovered the mass dig spots.  He said, "hey, I thought we agreed to no grail?".  I said, "doh!  well, my scouts got bored."  Then he attacked my castle and lost battle (because I was able to buy SO many creatures).

At that point I decided to give him the win, and reasoned with him that I'd have NO chance of winning without that grail.  So, he won, and afterward he said that next time on a random, grail will be allowed between us.

So I must ask, is that rule (no grail) needed?  well, SoS also told me of a game where opponent dropped from game for a long period of time, and later grabbed the grail with one dig attempt using 1-2 obelisks (of many).
____________
- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models.  Well ... the ones his age (18-26)  

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Troelsen
Troelsen


Hired Hero
posted December 27, 2001 03:46 PM

ĮÏĀĖ
____________

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Prometheus
Prometheus


Adventuring Hero
Knight of the Oracle
posted December 27, 2001 06:08 PM

The no grail rule is interesting.  It seriously poses a concern on some maps?  on open maps i would think it no concern.  If anyone is aspiring to make asymmetrical maps that have balancing or mitigating factors for one or the other sides if you will, an obelisk advantage can be one such asymmetrical planning tool.  I remember an old H2 map, Spellcasters, where (in my opinion) Sorceress was stronger than Necro if played correctly.  The prime mitigator for Necro was a good hp base to get joiners often. Secondly Necro had an obelisk advantage (placement, number).  This was a good balancing factor.
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(Prometheus is a league commentator and Heroes veteran who is best known as the only player who has actually been dismissed by his own HEROES)

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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted December 27, 2001 06:13 PM

When you say random, I reply =)

Quote:
to be in the Honor Council is a position of authority, and with it comes certain responsibilities .... and influence.


Well, as I see it, to be in the honor Council is a position where you look at complaints sent in by toh players and decide on a ruling. Thatīs it, thatīs the hc. They might be honorable players, but they might also be a bunch of jerks, and I donīt really care =)

Youīre right about the medal of honor. I got that once, but that was mostly related to my intellectual activities regarding honor, and not my honor itself. It was a heavy burden and luckily, I didnīt get it renewed this season

To grail or not to grail..
First of all, the random you played allowed diplo, as far as I can tell. When diplo is present no other rules (exept possibly hit&run) really matter when week 4 or 5 starts. By that time the expert diplomat starts collecting hundreds of level 4 and 5īs and packs of 7, and you get DD in guild, or a scroll or tome of air, so itīs alot like fest those weeks.

However.. the grail is a mighty big advantage, and its unfairly enough almost always a day or 2 from one of the players home town, wich means that it is decided from the start who will get it. On the other hand its very much fun to try to find it. (I usually locate it from taking 1 or 2 liths if I have uncovered the area its in, but then I have to dig like mad to find the exact spot)

I donīt make it a secret that I like randoms more than toh maps. I like exploring, finding something new, and playing the game by the rules of its creators, and not some mad map makers that lock away spellbinders and prohibit the powerful fire spells like berserk and armageddon (dammit ppl donīt like fire magic because of you! Give us back the fire you jerks =P) jk

I play random toh or fun maps at the zone during european evenings, anything from no rules, to no 4th no hit&run no diplo no necro no grail no attack 1st week no DD no fly no nothing..

So go play a random, its fun =)




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Moon
Moon


Adventuring Hero
posted December 27, 2001 06:47 PM

Quote:
Some information that I have:
When someone says no 4th.. donīt play them, they have no honour.
When someone says "You quit, you lose" donīt play them. They only care about points.
And so on.



Not right. I play "You quit, you loose" and I don't give a Cent on points. Never even reported after someone quited. The point of that rule is, that less peps quit when they think, they will loose.
Also they don't come in, while knowing they have only 1-2 hours time...
Means you get more games finished and playing 3 hours before it ends without even have seen opponent is no FUN and that is what I care about.

About L4, I don't care. Meteor, Chaini, Ressurection and Prayer are not so great to think about. Animate Dead is terrible, but Scholars seldom seen in Necros Taverns.
Some peps saying saved 40 of all resources, but thats nonsense. Having Resurrection, while the other has Berserk, Armageddon or TP is a joke in my eyes and he can still get a DD or Summon in L5.
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Frank
Frank


Promising
Known Hero
posted December 27, 2001 07:09 PM

Let`s talk about another rule that shouldn`t ever be necessary except maybe in random maps and even then...  

* No diplomacy at all / no diplomat as a starting hero

Here again when you're being asked: no diplomacy as a main...  run, you still have time to find another opponent!

What I dislike about no diplomacy is the fact that diplomacy doesn`t only serve to join more groups.  It allow to surrender at a lower cost.  So then if I chose diplomacy for that reason, do i have to delete every joiners I get meanwhile?  How are we to know that the joiners wouldn`t have joined without diplomacy anyhow?   That`s way to complicated to manage.  The only practical way to deal with diplomacy is therefore: allow it or disallow it completely.  And if you are proposed diplomacy and eagle eye, well, you have to take eagle eye.

Even when you disallow it completely you may be in a difficult situation.  What if you can only buy either Adela and Ryland or Cyra?   Those who use many heroes to link their fighting army around to accomplish more things will have to fight sooner or later with their diplomat...

More to come...

- Frank  

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sos
sos


Known Hero
posted December 27, 2001 07:50 PM

You are right Frank about the overlooked feature of diplomacy - cheaper surrendering. Thats why when I play "no diplo" (mostly when my op. insist on starting with Castle/Adela, etc ) I specify - you can hire any hero or give any skill to any hero, but no joins with hero that has diplo (at any level). So you can still use diplo for cheaper surrendering, and you can still have joins with your other heroes. Of course, you need to trust the guy you play for this to work.

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Undead_Knight
Undead_Knight


Known Hero
Hero of Chaos
posted December 27, 2001 10:05 PM

Its better to use rule "no joiners"
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jb239
jb239


Famous Hero
posted December 28, 2001 01:03 AM

threads and reasoning like this are the reason I stopped playing TOH games ina whole, and moved to just playin people I know. Sure I still play with some rules, but the rules are very vague, but the main rule is to have fun.

Since Ive done that Ive had lets see....0 problems ina game and just enjoy the game for what it is.

My main point is, the people that I know, and play now also realize points and winning doesnt matter as much as just havin fun, so to those who always find themselves emailing HC or arguing, etc, try takin the time to look at yourself and what you are doing, and maybe it isnt always the other persons fault you find yourself in that position

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