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| Thread: Pendant artifacts |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 04, 2009 09:24 AM |
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Pendant artifacts
Let's say you have 4 artifacts: pendant of courage(+3 mor +3 luck), pendant of swiftness(+1 speed), and those who gave you protection from blind and berserk(forgot english names). You don't know whether your opponent has these spells.
Which artifact would you wear before the main battle and in which situations?
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tob
Hired Hero
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posted May 05, 2009 01:11 PM |
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Quote:
Let's say you have 4 artifacts: pendant of courage(+3 mor +3 luck), pendant of swiftness(+1 speed), and those who gave you protection from blind and berserk(forgot english names). You don't know whether your opponent has these spells.
Which artifact would you wear before the main battle and in which situations?
An easy one i think is:
Pendant of swiftness for stronghold if you believe it can give you the opportunity to have first turn in battle.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 05, 2009 03:18 PM |
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Yeah, first turn is quite good advantage.
That is clear, so as if you would have +3 morale +3 luck you certainly would not wear pendant of courage. But what about if you have rampart 1 morale 0 luck, will you chose pendant of courage, swiftness or dispassion? Or maybe you say one artifact is totally better than other.
P.S. You can notice that pendant of dispassion(berserk) is only treasure artifact, while pendant of second sight(blind) is major.
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tob
Hired Hero
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posted May 05, 2009 04:29 PM |
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Quote:
Yeah, first turn is quite good advantage.
That is clear, so as if you would have +3 morale +3 luck you certainly would not wear pendant of courage. But what about if you have rampart 1 morale 0 luck, will you chose pendant of courage, swiftness or dispassion? Or maybe you say one artifact is totally better than other.
P.S. You can notice that pendant of dispassion(berserk) is only treasure artifact, while pendant of second sight(blind) is major.
first i am not a good player. But i think the good players would say that it always depends on the situation. If you have a slow army and you think your opponent got berserk then it could be very important to have pendant of dispassion.
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P.S. You can notice that pendant of dispassion(berserk) is only treasure artifact, while pendant of second sight(blind) is major.
It is hard to compare artifacts in that way. It is like saying that lightning bolt is better than slow. For example i would always prefer "Spirit of oppression" before pendant of courage allthough it is a minor og treasure artifact.If you have read about the advantages spirit of oppression brings, in this forum, i think you understand my point.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 05, 2009 04:49 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 16:50, 05 May 2009.
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I would wear Necklace of Swiftness.
To make the fight more predictable, I would try to get Spirit of Oppression, so moral won't play a role anymore.
And to prevent my opponent from casting berzerk or blind, I would just take Badge of Courage..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 05, 2009 05:34 PM |
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As for spirit of opression and pendant of courage.
Here you must divide battles to two types:
1)Against AI controlled - here you are right, spirit of opression is better because helps you to avoid unpredictable computer double moves.
2)Against another human - here I have another thought. Spirit of opression will not give you any advantage, except your opponent has bad morale, but when you wear pendant of courage you and your opponent will be in equal conditions only if he also has +3 +3. In another situation you will have a good advantage. Moreover(!) pendant of courage also does affect on luck.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted May 05, 2009 07:09 PM |
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From the four pendants,I would choose the Necklace of Swiftness.Of course, it depends on the situation ( if my army had bad morale I'd take the Pedant of Courage, if I had an undead army I wouldn't need the Pendant of Second Sight,etc).
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted May 06, 2009 01:27 AM |
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Quote:
2)Against another human - here I have another thought. Spirit of opression will not give you any advantage, except your opponent has bad morale, but when you wear pendant of courage you and your opponent will be in equal conditions only if he also has +3 +3. In another situation you will have a good advantage. Moreover(!) pendant of courage also does affect on luck.
However it leaves the chance for a creature to get morale. that could devastate and cripple your army. IE his phoenixes get good morale. its very possible that that extra attack could cripple some shooters and inflict immense damage. its better not to leave some things to chances. even if they could be beneficial, they are completely random (to a point) and could mean defeat.
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 06, 2009 08:08 AM |
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Edited by ihor at 08:14, 06 May 2009.
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Quote:
However it leaves the chance for a creature to get morale. that could devastate and cripple your army. IE his phoenixes get good morale. its very possible that that extra attack could cripple some shooters and inflict immense damage. its better not to leave some things to chances. even if they could be beneficial, they are completely random (to a point) and could mean defeat.
Everything is possible. If you are absolutely sure you will win the main battle without any interferences of chances(yours and your opponent's), then maybe you are right but when you have advantage why not to use it? As for me before the battle there are some chances you will win and lose, because a lot depends on chances. Let's say 60% you will win, 40% you will lose. Pendant will increase your chances.
Even 61% is better than 60%. The less chances you had before - the more chances pendant will add. Of course if you had 100% - the pendant will reduce  your chances(this is your situation). In very more situations pendant will help.
Another situation: you wear spirit and not pendant, enter the battle, see you have 0 morale 0 luck and your opponent have 0 morale +3 luck - you certainly will began to bang yours fist on the table. Don't talk about the hourglass  .
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 06, 2009 08:35 AM |
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The chances you win a fight increase by ELEMINATING "luck" factors like moral and luck, not by increasing them. Just because they are random.
If my opponent has only +2 moral, while I have +3, doesn't mean my chances for a win increase.
I could get moral with my level 1, level 2 and level 3 creature stack, while he gets moral with his level 6 and level 7 unit in first round.
Reliable moves help more than surprising additonal attacks.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 06, 2009 08:51 AM |
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I understood your position but I can't totally agree with that.
In my opinion in more common situation pendant is better. I may say it like this:
"If I am not sure, I will win the battle without lucky chances, I will take pendant, in other cases I will take spirit."
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tob
Hired Hero
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posted May 06, 2009 12:19 PM |
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Quote:
I would wear Necklace of Swiftness.
To make the fight more predictable, I would try to get Spirit of Oppression, so moral won't play a role anymore.
And to prevent my opponent from casting berzerk or blind, I would just take Badge of Courage..
But if you didn't have badge of courage available and had to choose between the pendants as he asked about?
My other comments were just written to state my opinion about the minor/major artifact thing..
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 06, 2009 12:36 PM |
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Due to the matter of fact I don't know anything about the opponent hero (which spells, which expert magic school, which secondary skills, what artefacts, etc...), I would always chose an artefact which helps me for sure. And this would be the speed artefact.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Pavelismus
Hired Hero
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posted May 06, 2009 09:52 PM |
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swiftness
maybe courage to go save if ur already with the fastest unit
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 07, 2009 05:36 PM |
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What if I add the Necklace of Dragonteeth here?
Will you use it only when recharging(+3kn) and in battles prefer swiftness to +3 sp? Compare dragonteeth with swiftness and courage.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted May 07, 2009 05:50 PM |
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Edited by liophy at 18:18, 07 May 2009.
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Quote:
The chances you win a fight increase by ELEMINATING "luck" factors like moral and luck, not by increasing them. Just because they are random.
Thats true only if you are stronger with your army/stats. But if you are not comfortable with your power, than you need to rely on other factors.
Ofcourse, sometimes +1 speed has enourmous tactical edge for the developement of the 1 round. Afterwards its not so important, as mass slow/haste is cast.
In general - in short battles with small armies luck/moral is nor that important. But in long battles it may turn decisive.
Still, even if eliminating "luck" factor is good - you dont eliminate the luck factor of the enemy by not increasing your moral.
In the thread its not said if you posses spirit of oppresion.So in most of the games, moral IS A FACTOR either way.
+1 speed is most important if RED ORB is present in the battle. If you have it, its a good bet to use speed. Otherwise as i said - after all haste/slow its less important.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 07, 2009 05:59 PM |
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Thats true only if you are stronger with your army/stats
That I was talking about. Absolutely agree.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 07, 2009 06:45 PM |
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Quote:
Thats true only if you are stronger with your army/stats. But if you are not comfortable with your power, than you need to rely on other factors.
But as I said liophy you can't rely on random factors! But I can rely on +1 speed. If opponent has SoO and maybe Hourglas, your pendant is worth nothing. So I repeat myself. If you want to RELY on something, you need something which helps ya for sure. And moral could even make your fight against a stronger army even more devastating if the opponent gets moral more often than you!
Quote:
Ofcourse, sometimes +1 speed has enourmous tactical edge for the developement of the 1 round. Afterwards its not so important, as mass slow/haste is cast.
I have to disagree. If both armies are mass slowed (or mass hasted), that +1 speed still has enormous value!
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In general - in short battles with small armies luck/moral is nor that important. But in long battles it may turn decisive.
I have to disagree again
Let's fight...you got 1 angel, I got 1 angel (small army as you wished ) I have 2 times moral, you none. Let's see who wins..
Quote:
Still, even if eliminating "luck" factor is good - you dont eliminate the luck factor of the enemy by not increasing your moral.
As I said...I do not know anything about my opponent, so I don't rely on things he could counter. I rely on things which improve me.
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In the thread its not said if you posses spirit of oppresion.So in most of the games, moral IS A FACTOR either way.
A lucky factor, yes. But moral can be achieved in so many ways, no need to "block" a spot for other good arties.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted May 07, 2009 07:02 PM |
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Edited by liophy at 19:03, 07 May 2009.
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Quote:
But as I said liophy you can't rely on random factors! But I can rely on +1 speed. If opponent has SoO and maybe Hourglas, your pendant is worth nothing. So I repeat myself. If you want to RELY on something, you need something which helps ya for sure. And moral could even make your fight against a stronger army even more devastating if the opponent gets moral more often than you!
As we said - if your army is enough, this +1 speed may even not be nececery. The question is what it gives you. As i said - if you need it for a huge tactical advantage for 1 round, than maybe its the best option.
The thing is - this still may not be enough! And +3 luck and +3 moral is something, that gives a lot. Sure - the enemy may have SoO and Hourglass, but the chanses are small, and you have to go with the odds.
Look, its not coincidence that neckless is a treasure artefact and pendant of curaje is major...
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both armies are mass slowed (or mass hasted), that +1 speed still has enormous value!
No, you are wrong. If you are mass slowed, half of your army will loose this 1 speed. The other half will keep it, but with 2 mass slowed armies the battle is decided by superiority in shooting, and in general are very, very long battles. And there the probabilitie of moral/luck rises enourmosly.
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Quote:
In general - in short battles with small armies luck/moral is nor that important. But in long battles it may turn decisive.
I have to disagree again
Let's fight...you got 1 angel, I got 1 angel (small army as you wished ) I have 2 times moral, you none. Let's see who wins..
Okey, i express it wrong. In short battles you may not rely on moral that much. So in this sense its not that important FOR YOU. But in longer battles, if you have higher probablilitie for moral/luck, the chanses are that it will come.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 07, 2009 10:55 PM |
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Look, its not coincidence that neckless is a treasure artefact and pendant of curaje is major...
Oh come on...lol. You really bring up THIS as an argument? Ok...So sea captain's hat (relic!) is better than Sword of Hellfire (major), and boots of speed (minor) are completely nonsense in comparison to boots of levitation (relic!)
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No, you are wrong. If you are mass slowed, half of your army will loose this 1 speed. The other half will keep it,
Now I play this game for around 10 years, but this "fact" is new to me  Since when does this artefact only count for half of my army when being mass slowed????
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