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| Thread: HOMM 2 Strategy n Info |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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darmo
Known Hero
True Gentleman
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posted May 14, 2009 07:01 AM |
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Battle of Crusader vs Bonnies
Crusader HP:65 A:11 D:12 Dmg:10-20 Gr:4 Sp:2Xstrike, 2XDmg vs undead
Bonnie HP:150 A:11 D:9 Dmg:25-45 Gr:3
Damage calculation 4 Crus vs 3 Bonnies (based on weekly Gr with well):
4 Crus 120%X15X4 = 72X2(vs undead)=144
3 Crus 120%X15X3 = 54X2 = 108
2 Crus 120%X15X2 = 36X2 = 72
1 Crus 120%X15X1 = 18X2 = 36
3 Bone 95%X35X3 = 99
2 Bone 95%X35X2 = 66
1 Bone 95%X35X1 = 33
Battle begin (use no magic and A&D of Hero is ignored)
Round1:
4Crus attack Bone 144 dmg, Bone has 6 HP
3Bone retaliate 99 dmg, 1Crus dead 3left and has 36 HP
3Crus attack again 108 dmg, 1Bone dead 2left and has 48 HP
2Bone attack Crus 66 dmg, 1Crus dead 2 left and has 35 HP
2Crus retaliate 72 dmg, 1Bone dead 1 left and has 126 HP
Round2:
2Crus attack Bone 72 dmg, Bone has 54 HP
1Bone retaliate 33 dmg, Crus has 2 HP
2Crus attack again 72 dmg, Bone Dead!
We can see that Crusader is a real threat of undead
Price of 4 Crus = 4000
Price of 3 Bone = 4500
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xlnt
Known Hero
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posted May 14, 2009 08:45 AM |
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No they are not : ) don't be a child (unless you are - in this case keep to it as long as you can) first of all even in your oversimplified test you should let the bone dragons strike first - the crusaders will not get to the bone dragons unless a mass haste spell is used. And if you go there - to the full battle - you should take all the units with you : )
to put it simple - your test is wrong
to state the obvious - the crusader is a nice unit against undead
to repeat what was proven with the years of play - Necro is the absolutely best castle in the game. Warlocks are fair - necro is not.
The reason - necromancy! The method - have 2-3 heroes (vampires easily kill all shooters, liches obliterate all walkers and bone drakes just make is simple). Gather an enormous army of skeletons. Go and delete all competition.
Keep in mind that knight has no 1 lvl creature, only one shooter which really needs its upgrade to be effective and 4 walkers, 2 of which are sooo defensive and the last 2 are high lvl. Chances are you will develop much better with Necro, and after the upgrase of the vampires and the raise of bone dragons - the map just generates you skeletons.
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razor5
Famous Hero
Freezing...
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posted May 14, 2009 01:01 PM |
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Yes,let's see what happens if the Bonnies strike first.That means important damage to the Crusader.Agree with xlnt.Knights can be easy beaten by Necros in the LATE game,even with Crusaders in Knight army.
I'd better attack with all the forces and try to beat in early game the Necro,with Archers and Pikemen (NO PEASANTS!!!) against some Skellies,Zombies and Mummies, even I will lose.But with some good blessing spells the battle could be won by killing the Mummies FIRST
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TmacV
Hired Hero
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posted May 15, 2009 06:49 AM |
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Wouldn't the BD's retaliate after first strike, thus killing a crusader before the 2nd strike?
It's been a while since I played Homm2, but I think that's how it works - similar to Crusdaers in H3.
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xlnt
Known Hero
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posted May 15, 2009 10:36 AM |
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That is correct - BD retaliate after the first strike. Attacking first against Necro is a must. Early Necro army is weak and slow, it's beaten easy with archers - still if there are some liches - go for them first.
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razor5
Famous Hero
Freezing...
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posted May 15, 2009 02:03 PM |
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@xlnt: That exactly what I said.Necro army is really weak in the early game and that's the best time to attack them,Knight can beat them with Rangers (great to upgrade them) and Pikemen.However in the mid-game it becomes harder,an army of Rangers,Veteran Pikemen,Master Swordsmen and Cavalries is a preffered target for a lot of Skellies which are with Mutant Zombies,Royal Mummies,Vamps and Liches.
Those big stack of Skellies (depending of Necromancy) will damage the non-ranged Knight units,even the cavalries.Mummies's curse makes Necro's victory closer,and about Liches... ...they will end all.
In the late game,I think continuing this is useless,with upgraded lvl 1-5 creatures and the Crusader beating the Necro is impossible
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TmacV
Hired Hero
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posted May 15, 2009 05:29 PM |
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In genereal the Knight has trouble with all other factions in late game unless gold is at a great premium.
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darmo
Known Hero
True Gentleman
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posted May 16, 2009 03:26 AM |
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yes i think i was wrong, and i'm not expert player too. When I played the "Voyage Home" campaign last scenario n I choose to play the knoght side I face a difficulty to face the necro and the barb because I take too long to conquer them
So how to rush with knight? Because after 1st battle with enemy main hero I lose all of my 100 ranger 20 champion, even i can kill her 40 Pw liches and 40 Vam lord and she's fleed. And the enemy barb hero still in full power.
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razor5
Famous Hero
Freezing...
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posted May 16, 2009 09:14 AM |
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Did you attacked the Liches first? That's an important move!
Keep up the Rangers shooting the Liches and better do not surround them with creatures because the Lich can damage them all.
Ok,then kill the Vamps with Crusaders and Champions before they can drain from your Rangers more health.The Bonnies aren't so good lvl 6 creature,because they don't have a special ability and their stats aren't perfect,so try killing them with the Crusaders.
Royal Mummies are pretty dangerous for their Curse - don't let them attack all your creatures!.Mutant Zombies are not a huge problem,but the Skellies will be because of their high number (Expert Necromancy)
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Darmo
Known Hero
True Gentleman
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posted May 18, 2009 03:09 AM |
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I think the necro had been weaken but the barb still powerful. So how to face the barb with knight, any suggestion?
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resurector
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 19, 2009 09:59 PM |
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You guys are clearly underestimating weakest class: knight
Ofc he sucks but hes really specific type of hero. Notice that he have alot of gold, leadership and diplomacy. It works on few maps, this allows knight to get strong army early and work with 2 or more towns pretty fast. Yes, i know that everone can hire knight(+barb) hero but i take that as real heroes2 design flaw. Also, theres a chance that knight hero wont appear early in other town.
When knight gets good gold supply early game, he will have pretty big unit choice(main castle, diplomacy, hirelings, second town, free unit upgrade camps etc). This allows knight castle to use secondary heroes not only as scouts, but also as fighters wich leads to much faster economical development.
Hello btw, my first post, wondering how many do i need to start my own topic.
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resurector
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 19, 2009 10:07 PM |
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Also, im looking for hamachi networks with homm2. I got gold version and i can use UndeadHalfOrc balance patch(i like it). I found one network but everyone seems to be offline, so im looking for players:
hamachi homm2:
Network: Celestial Heavens - HoMM 2
Password: heroes
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xlnt
Known Hero
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posted May 20, 2009 09:20 AM |
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Hey and welcome!!
I'll try to reach you on hamachi for a H2 game : ) i'm at -2 CET.
Do you think knight will have the time to develop to diplo and money? btw - give a link to that patch and some info, please!
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resurector
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 20, 2009 05:23 PM |
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Quote:
Hey and welcome!!
I'll try to reach you on hamachi for a H2 game : ) i'm at -2 CET.
Do you think knight will have the time to develop to diplo and money? btw - give a link to that patch and some info, please!
Well, there are few things wich this strategy is dependant on: map, luck and difficulty. Lets take Broken Alliance map for example, you got around 50% possibility to do it there on normal/hard difficulty dependant on your luck. This includes access to diplomacy skill(gazebos are helpful because every hero can use it), gold/exp amount in chests, monster spawns and such.
I dont know proper Diplomacy formula in homm2 but i assume that its different than homm3 one. If someone knows it and would post it here then it would make things much easier.
Balance patch is here:
Heroes 2 Price of Loyalty (v2.1). Should work with Heroes 2 gold as well.(And works  )
http://pages.infinit.net/plague/h2mod.zip
Heroes 2 Price of Loyalty (v2.1), No CD version(multiplayer only)
http://pages.infinit.net/plague/h2_nocd.zip
Original Heroes 2 (Succession Wars), v1.3
http://pages.infinit.net/plague/h2modb.zip
Im at GMT +1(+2 summer time - right now), waiting in hamachi room everytime im free.
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resurector
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 20, 2009 05:28 PM |
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On balance patch: changelog is inside zip file, its not perfect but i like it better than original game. Also be sure to make backup of exe file wich you are changing.
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xlnt
Known Hero
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posted May 21, 2009 08:43 AM |
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Thanks - i'll take a look when i'm free from work, which should happen during the weekend.
Due to inspiring, i did a short multy-player game on 'surf-and-turf' Necro on Knight with my brother (he complained a lot). We didn't have the time to finish the game, but a Necromancer with skill +5 (artifact + building) was having around 40 skeletons from hordes of lvl 1 units (~90 sprites for example). I engaged a CPU controlled hero and killed all his Cyclops with a single strike from the skeletons : )
Also - what difficulty would be best to play a game on?
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Darmo
Known Hero
True Gentleman
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posted May 21, 2009 10:47 AM |
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Quote:
You guys are clearly underestimating weakest class: knight
Yes I do.
After finished that campaign (with knight), I tried to play the opposite side (with necro). And the result was I win that campaign easier.
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Zarfol
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 23, 2009 09:34 PM |
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I've started up Heroes 2 + POL recently, but still I haven't been able to decide between necro and warlock. Then again, I usually end up just running against the AI nowadays, so beating the dumb AI isn't very difficult.
Sure Power liches drop like flies, dropping a unit (mummies usually) and splitting up lich stacks makes the AI divert their shooters into 2 stacks which were going to incur huge losses anyway. Alternatively, just running skellies, vamp lords, and power liches stacked into 3 slots...
Warlock is imbalanced I think, specially during mid game. Dungeon, Good spellpower on the hero + a good midgame army of flyers and minos. Griffons are amazing shooter blockers against the comp. Specially since the comp is so gung-ho with their walkers to race across the field to reach your pathetic centaur stack which has a nasty hydra pack stationed right next to it.
Knight sucks imo, except the knight hero has a good chance for diplo//estates, good secondary or supply chain hero.
Wizard... ugh, I always have difficulty developing them.
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TmacV
Hired Hero
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posted May 25, 2009 05:51 PM |
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AI can and should be crushed by an faction unless you're playing Impossible diff (can't remember if they have numerical %'s) and there are no resources. Seems computer always gets resources when the need them???
I love Warlock/Sorceress/Wizard/Barbarian + Necro and finally the Knight in last.
I just like playing factions that can creep w/o losing army.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted May 26, 2009 12:19 AM |
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Haha, Necro is really overpowered in Heroes II as well! Good job NWC...
Knight always did seem pretty weak to me, are they actually a decent town?
I always thought Warlock's dragons were a bit OP but then I wasn't very good at the game, heh.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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