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| Thread: did you know why they are skinned alive? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Celfious
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From earth
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posted May 16, 2009 04:09 AM |
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gee, I never thought of animals as being property which can be tossed around like bags of garbage every Wednesday here in my neighborhood.. Actually, I probably never will.
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winterfate
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posted May 16, 2009 04:17 AM |
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Quote:
but there's no arguing that they are inferior creatures
That part of your post really bothers me Sith.
They are inferior relative to what exactly?
There is no such thing as an inferior creature. That's one thing I've learned in three and a half years of Biology classes. Just because we have the use of technology and complex mechanisms such as written language doesn't make us superior.
Biology (well not for all people, but it did for me) opens your mind to the fact that organisms aren't so different one from another, in the end. So, I apologize if I come off a bit harsh, but it's the way I feel.
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If you supposedly care about someone, then don't push them out of your life. Acting like you're not doing it doesn't exempt you from what I just said. - Winterfate
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted May 16, 2009 05:12 AM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 05:13, 16 May 2009.
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First of all, if we dare to call ourselves rational, then "superiority" is defined by how you treat the weaker. Without that, there's nothing making us less primitive (in mentality, with which rationality is concerned) than a virus or the most primitive life possible (please don't argue about viruses not being alive  ).
We didn't evolve just brutal and primitive "means" of surviving better, we evolved a much more rational and analyzing brain, as we can see that we can even analyze situations like these. Ignoring this is ignoring 80% of your mental evolution. Now you see why I call that a primitive idea
EDIT: this was for those who said that we're only about survival and exploitation, when that would put us at the bottom of evolution in fact.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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winterfate
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posted May 16, 2009 05:17 AM |
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Quote:
(please don't argue about viruses not being alive ).
But...but...it's fun!
Seriously though, you have a very good point. 
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If you supposedly care about someone, then don't push them out of your life. Acting like you're not doing it doesn't exempt you from what I just said. - Winterfate
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blizzardboy
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Nerf Herder
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posted May 16, 2009 05:38 AM |
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@Mvass
It's irrelevant that mentally handicapped and insane people are our own species under your line of thought. Your line of thinking is that animals need not be protected in any fashion because they're incapable of doing to do us what we do to them, which is true since we rule supreme over them, and also because they aren't capable of honoring any contract. Mentally retarded and insane people follow under this exact same judgment. Yet we protect them because the vast majority of society finds it ethically right, and what people want, people eventually get.
The point is, there isn't any real purpose in allowing these animals to be painfully skinned alive. Some animals endure suffering for a purpose, but this doesn't even serve a purpose. I've skinned plenty of deer, and trust me, there's no conceivable reason why skinning it while it's heart is still beating would make any difference. Skinning it while it's still warm makes it easier, but it doesn't need to be alive for it to still be warm. These laborers are either ignorant or they enjoy it, and promoting apathy and/or sadism in society is not at all beneficial.
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mvassilev
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posted May 16, 2009 05:43 AM |
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Death:
Quote:
We didn't evolve just brutal and primitive "means" of surviving better, we evolved a much more rational and analyzing brain
That is a means of surviving better.
blizzardboy:
Quote:
It's irrelevant that mentally handicapped and insane people are our own species under your line of thought. Your line of thinking is that animals need not be protected in any fashion because they're incapable of doing to do us what we do to them, which is true since we rule supreme over them, and also because they aren't capable of honoring any contract. Mentally retarded and insane people follow under this exact same judgment.
No, they don't, because we cannot exclude them without making some kind of mistake. It's why I am a rule utilitarian rather than an act utilitarian: if one makes decisions on such a case-by-case basis, one is bound to make some kind of mistake - and some would make constant mistakes.
The point is, there isn't any real purpose in allowing these animals to be painfully skinned alive.
Quote:
Some animals endure suffering for a purpose, but this doesn't even serve a purpose. I've skinned plenty of deer, and trust me, there's no conceivable reason why skinning it while it's heart is still beating would make any difference. Skinning it while it's still warm makes it easier, but it doesn't need to be alive for it to still be warm. These laborers are either ignorant or they enjoy it, and promoting apathy and/or sadism in society is not at all beneficial.
You will find no disagreement from me here.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 16, 2009 05:56 AM |
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No, they don't, because we cannot exclude them without making some kind of mistake. It's why I am a rule utilitarian rather than an act utilitarian: if one makes decisions on such a case-by-case basis, one is bound to make some kind of mistake - and some would make constant mistakes.
But isn't it good for everybody if we reflect minimal decency in all aspects of society? Do you think openly skinning live animals doesn't have an impact on people?
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You will find no disagreement from me here.
And so the State enacts a ban on it. Skinners do a swift kill on the animal and business goes on as usual. Zero financial loses.
Also, if your existence is centered around rule utilitarianism, then why do you say this disgusts you at all?
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RTI
Adventuring Hero
Now known as Rarensu
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posted May 16, 2009 10:21 AM |
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There is no such thing as an inferior creature.
Here are your inferior creatures: Straight-shelled nautaloid, Archeopteryx, Terror bird; All predators driven extinct by competition with more efficient predators (sharks, birds, and cats, respectively).
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xerox
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posted May 16, 2009 12:04 PM |
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Also I do think that it might be "evil" to have Parrots imprisoned in a cage in your home etc
And thats why I have 2 cats who do what they want and have their own rights. They go outside whenever they want but will always come back aslong as its safe in our house and they get food.
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Over himself, over his own
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- John Stuart Mill
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mvassilev
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posted May 19, 2009 02:53 PM |
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Blizzardboy:
Quote:
But isn't it good for everybody if we reflect minimal decency in all aspects of society? Do you think openly skinning live animals doesn't have an impact on people?
It does, which is why I favour social pressure against it. But laws - that would be going too far.
Quote:
Zero financial loses.
There would be losses in utility.
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Celfious
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From earth
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posted May 19, 2009 04:22 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 16:26, 19 May 2009.
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read whats in the quote only if you stalk my cause
Can anyone think of random key word term searches to get informed on things like vegetarianism, bacterial evolution with the resistance of antibodies,
Here is the basic list I have so far
free vegetarian starter kit
animal testing
force feeding animals
Staphylococcus
evolution bacteria factory farm
Journal of animal science cement feed
I am gathering these things for a video. I wish to let people know they can get the info. I am not the greatest entertainer so I am not anytime soon going to explain all the things that are already available, so I'm giving search terms instead.
The following is up to you to read or not it is the script of what I said on the vid which amazingly I ended it 2 seconds before max of 10 minutes.
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Hi, how's it going, this is my first real video, although I have no camera at this time so bear with me. I am instead utilizing some pictures and maybe some bad subtitles curtousy of yours truly. Thank you.
I want to be cut and dry, but there are a few points I would like to make clear in the initial stage of this "video". First, I am not confirming or denying ANY belief in or against God or watever you prefer God to be called. Also I disclose no personal beliefes or stances involving stem cell research or abortion. I do have opinions, however, they hold no logical value in the ultimate message which I wish to express, and my beliefes would only distract you, the viewer.
My point generaly revolves around a few basic highlights.
A: There are bigger fish to fry than abortion and stem cell research because we neglect outragous haneous activities world wide that are actually bigger issues than the treatment of unborn children. I will only attempt to cover the issues which have a devine need to be corrected as soon as possible.
B: Humans generaly think themselves to be superior to other species. Even though we share a magnitude of similarities with many things, especialy living things, we deny rights which we hold very dearly for ourselves, and we deny these very rights from innocent animals.
And finaly C: Where does the golden rule end? You know, most of you probably agree with things in the same ball park as the golden rule however you spit on the world. You say "We all bleed red" And you disclude animals from that statement aswell as the golden rule.
Pigs scream because, they want to live. They dont want their testicles cut off as babies. They, like other animals dont want their ears clipped in place of branding or to be thrown into piles of bloody kins, relitives, etc. Chickens, they dont want to be plucked, they dont want their beaks cut off at very young ages either. Did you know animals are skinned alive for 2 reasons? Reason one, is that the skin comes off in one piece, one convenient pull. The ****s that work pulling skin of living animals dont even have the decency to inflict quick kills, instead they throw them into bloody miserable piles. The other reason they are skinned alive, is becasue YOU PAY THEM TOO>
If you have gotten this far in the audio recording, you have every opportunity to lose ignorance, and you dont have to take it from me. There are many ways you can shed ignorance, ill give you some starting hints. ANIMAL MISTREATMENT. It's happening right now as you listen to this recording. An animal born in cages, cats dogs, cows pigs birds, minks, ferrets, wolves, etc, is finaly understanding why "Humans" kept them in cages. Hell, its not even like the humans are eating all of them. Some of their skin is pulled off and their corpses are thrown into piles of misery.
So anyways, you humans, who condone this, you know, you put the world at risk. Did you actualy not know much about the facts of evolution? Parts and in some perspective evolution is theory. But there are many known facts. One is the ability of ill just say "bad stuff like germs and bacteria" to resist antibiotics. This has a lot to do with natural selection.. We'll say for argumentative purposes that 1% of bacterias survive antibiotics used in factory farms. This inturn leaves a lot of food and space for the bacterias to reproduce, feed, and survive.
So, good luck chemists, biologists, whoever you are, in keeping up with natural selection vs man made antibodies used in comercial deathcamps known as factory farms. So, the main focus I wish to express involving the superiority complex is actualy geared twoards the people who feel as if God permits any treatment to animals. Um, God gave us dominion... God gave us dominion... Did you know we have dominion over a lot of things? Money, crack, ourselves, you know, and we all frown upon mistreatment of the aformentioned but hey animals its a whole other story right? Cut em up while their alive, it easier for us that way. We increase productivity if we just kill em, takes to much time to relieve the pain so just go ahead and strangle or f it why not just pull the skin off while he;s alive, thatll give us about 30 extra seconds per animal for our productivity.
Coming to a closing before I move on the the last point you must realize that living creatures are being very very hurt right now by humans, for deathly luxuries. So, with the superiority complex and all, we see unborn children as worth 10 times the value of an animal in cases such as stem cell or chosen abortions. Theres really no great way I can end this you know? You either see it or you dont. I'm not the type of extremeist that says an animal killed by a human should be treated exactly the same as a human killing a human... But, I am 100% confidently saying that condoning it with man made currency, well, you might aswell just... Do it yourself 8 hours a day for 50 cents a life.. I will count down to 3. I will provide interesting informative key words so that you can either review what you know, or you can decide to not be ignorant and not condone needless suffering of those who should be entitled to life. Pause the video on 3 seconds on three or right after will be fine
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winterfate
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Water-marked Champion!
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posted May 20, 2009 03:21 AM |
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Quote:
Here are your inferior creatures: Straight-shelled nautaloid, Archeopteryx, Terror bird; All predators driven extinct by competition with more efficient predators (sharks, birds, and cats, respectively).
@RTI: That only proves that they were inferior in the situations that led to their extinction. Place said animals in other parts of the planet and they may have survived and rendered other organisms inferior.
In any case, I was more talking about how humans tend to place themselves above animals, as if animals have no purpose other than to serve us. I find that arrogant, IMO.
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If you supposedly care about someone, then don't push them out of your life. Acting like you're not doing it doesn't exempt you from what I just said. - Winterfate
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mvassilev
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posted May 20, 2009 06:16 AM |
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted May 20, 2009 12:23 PM |
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Quote:
We humans define what purpose is.
What do you base that on?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted May 22, 2009 08:40 AM |
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Edited by Celfious at 08:43, 22 May 2009.
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Albert E.
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as an evolution to a vegetarian diet."
Thomas Edison
"Until we stop harming all living beings we are still savages"
Leonardo divinci
"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men"
Pythagoras
"For as long as men massacre animals they will kill each other."
Your bible
"The righteous man regards the life of his beast but even the tender mercies of the wicked is cruel"
spe·cies·ism (spē'shē-zĭz'əm, -sē-)
n. Human intolerance or discrimination on the basis of species, especially as manifested by cruelty to or exploitation of animals.
–noun
discrimination in favor of one species, usually the human species, over another, esp. in the exploitation or mistreatment of animals by humans.
For the animals
for the enviroment
for yourself.
Pursue a life of compassion and peace
There are many many famous healthy humans whose lifestyles reflect no such murders.
Strive to choose compassion over cruelty in every choice you make.
Excerpts from an interesting movie series called earthlings.
Granted animals may not share some of the same desires, and they do not comprehend everything we comprehend, we and animals share certain natural desires and comprehensions. Desires for food waters, shelters, companionship. Freedom of movement and freedom from pain. Many animals understand the world in which they live and move. Otherwise they could not survive. Beneath the many differences there is sameness.
"The smugness with which man could do with other species as he pleased -illustrates- the most extreme racist theories. The principal that might is right"
The list goes on, and there is no right answer which would rightfully defend using animals as if they are objects, servants, or not living breathing beings
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted May 22, 2009 11:19 AM |
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Edited by Celfious at 11:19, 22 May 2009.
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true story by Celfious
Quote:
I went into McDonald's on ## # # ## # # # and 2 of the employees ridiculed me because I dont eat animals. I would actually take it to the furthest extreme, and a friend hit record on his cell phone, but they stopped 5 seconds after he did this, because they saw the camera phone.
I dont want to release this before i want to implore you to stop being ignorant about animal abuse's horrific nature! Its worse enough that people slaughter animals which are in no way shape or form needed to survive. Peta, would love for the ridicule file courtesy of my friend and your employees even though its only at the but end of their hatred and laughter with me. I am not saying your decision plays any role in whether or not I will submit this to them, however, I strongly encourage you to initiate the least possible horrific way of murdering your victims.
Some of the greatest minds of written history suggested compassion for all beings for a multitude of reasons, and you are in the business of wicked cruelty. I hope you can sleep at night after what you do, and it is hard for me to believe you dont know the reality of things.
Every time I watch this footage it excremitises (coined term) the brutal reality which you are involved in.
"Each year, McDonald's purchases nearly one billion pounds of beef from U.S. producers." That is a billion pounds of cruelty and deprivation of a life which is not yours to take! There are endless factual quotes from well known and respected people like Gandhi, Einstein, Thomas Edison. The information, is widely available. If you wish to remain ignorant that is your business however the way of earth belongs to earthlings, and I am not the only one who tells you your wrong in the way you kill!
P.S I may may have used your forms to contact you but you require mailing address, phone number, everything.. How Could I trust murderers with my personal information? At the least you would probably spam me with mcpropaganda (I should have added here mcmurders too). Oh, and I dont want on any of your email lists thank you.
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted May 22, 2009 11:59 AM |
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Edited by baklava at 12:02, 22 May 2009.
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Quote:
Thomas Edison
"Until we stop harming all living beings we are still savages"
Because of course plants are not alive?
I also love it how mister Edison electrocuted an elephant just to prove that he can. And filmed it.
Good work on picking a quote.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted May 22, 2009 12:22 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 12:51, 22 May 2009.
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oh god your attack and blatant offense towards a positive lifestyle is futile. I am a person willing to change my errors if I see them, and I see no error at all in any shape or form in this case.
Living things do in fact include humans plants animals diseases bacterias, and the list doesn't end there. I guarantee you that in some times, daily, in the lives of language speaking beings, there are things which are and should be subject to interpretation. Your negative attack on something that is true is definitely under a childish leveled fallacy of logic. But dont worry, many adults myself included have childish logic from time to time.
So when you interpret what Edison said you could pick apart the speaker, you could pick apart the highly flexible definitions which man themselves formed, you can twist everything apart to suit your childish view, but the true meaning has not been hurt or harmed in any way shape or form.
If you are incapable of viewing this "Until we stop harming all living beings we are still savages" without seeing applicable meaning which makes complete sense, while not picking apart anything you can to come up with erroneous conclusions, then I shouldn't waste my time arguing with that mentality.
Sorry
[edit] And now a note from your human languages source of explanation????
a fierce, brutal, or cruel person.
fierce, ferocious, or cruel; untamed:
unpolished; rude: savage manners.
Vicious or merciless; brutal:
To attack without restraint or pity:
Characterized by cruelty; barbarous; fierce; ferocious; inhuman; brutal; as, a savage spirit.
A man of extreme, unfeeling, brutal cruelty; a barbarian.
to assault and maul by biting, rending, goring, etc.; tear at or mutilate: numerous sheep savaged by dogs.
Any guess what word this defines in part? Any takers? Wow.. I guess we are not practicing savagery when we strangle animals to death for their fur. When we boil them alive, and cut their throats suspending them upside down. Poking them, shackling them, hurting them to perform stupid tricks, injecting them with unpredictable chemicals, the list goes on, but we're not savages.. nah..
And by the way plants dont display excruciating pain. That doesn't make it right in any way to deny the right of life to the creatures that do scream horrific terrorize screams which easily translate to "help" "no" "stop" etc
I guess they say a pic can say 1000 words, thats an easy one
But, screams of pure horrific terror mean nothing to savages who are categorized as "A man of extreme, unfeeling, brutal cruelty; a barbarian. "
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Celfious
Promising
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From earth
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posted May 22, 2009 12:53 PM |
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I love the plant argument.. I also love the deer argument
"Der, there will be a lot of deer and food source will diminish" yadda yadda yadda..
If you take the deer argument to be the justification to develop and run death camps then you too, I shouldn't waste my time with..
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 22, 2009 02:39 PM |
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Bak:
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What do you base that on?
Humans live in human society and use definitions and concepts defined by humans.
Celfious:
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If you take the deer argument to be the justification to develop and run death camps then you too, I shouldn't waste my time with..
Wait, what?
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