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Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: did you know why they are skinned alive?
Thread: did you know why they are skinned alive? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 15, 2009 06:25 AM
Edited by mvassilev at 06:25, 15 May 2009.

Because animals are property. People should be free to use their property as they wish (unless they aggress against others).

That said, I in no way support this and wish people would stop.
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winterfate
winterfate


Supreme Hero
Water-marked Champion!
posted May 15, 2009 06:32 AM

And this, exactly, is why I hate the law.

I don't understand how we can just claim animals as our property, as if their feelings don't matter. Once you've lived long enough with animals (I have 2 dogs) you realize that they are quite capable of emotion, and that they suffer much like we do, even though they don't rationalize quite in the same way as we do.

Skinning animals when they're dead is one thing and up to the criteria of the people who would do it, but skinning them while they're alive, well...that's just inhumane and barbaric.

It sickens me, both as a human being, and as a biologist.

And yes, I do agree. They should stop.
____________
If you supposedly care about someone, then don't push them out of your life. Acting like you're not doing it doesn't exempt you from what I just said. - Winterfate

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Celfious
Celfious


Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
posted May 15, 2009 06:43 AM
Edited by Celfious at 06:56, 15 May 2009.

mvass your funnily confusingly unsupportive

ok hear this, they skin animals alive, and throw them in heaps of dying hurting animals. FUR and LEATHER is the prime outtake of this disgusting behavior.

Please tell everyone you know this fact that is not widely known. thank you.

as I said, right now a helpless animal is grasping for dying breathing, feeling and asking WHYYYYYY WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY because they do not understand why they were thrown into cages packed tightly, being poked hardly with sticks, to end up being cut with a knife then pEELed of their flesh (see the pic)


then, when their skin is pulled off of their living nerve endings, they are thrown into a pile of others all gasping for life, crying, crying, CRYING@@!!!!
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What are you up to

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RTI
RTI


Adventuring Hero
Now known as Rarensu
posted May 15, 2009 08:29 AM

I believe in Reincarnation and a modified version of Karma. Those people who willingly and willfully murder other living beings will, in future lifetimes, be murdered, watch their loved ones be murdered, struggle against murderers, and murder some more. Eventually, after many lifetimes of suffering, they will finally learn that murder is unpalatable and stop participating in it. However, this is a slow process and cannot be forced by outsiders. The best thing we can do for these people is to show them compassion, and hurry them towards future lifetimes if they seem to be stuck in a rut.
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Sincerely,
A Proponent of Spelling, Grammar, Punctuation, and Courtesy.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted May 15, 2009 08:38 AM

Ugh

I cannot stand the suffering of living beings... bastards! Just pure bastards, and calling them like that insults bastards all over the planet!
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted May 15, 2009 10:30 AM

Disgusting... didn't know this happened. Gonna tell all my friends about it but I doubt it matters. Humans have a way of turning their back on bad things, like a psychological defense.
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baklava
baklava


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
posted May 15, 2009 01:07 PM
Edited by baklava at 13:08, 15 May 2009.

Quote:
Because animals are property. People should be free to use their property as they wish (unless they aggress against others).

That said, I in no way support this and wish people would stop.


Jews, black people and homosexuals should be property. People should be free to skin them alive as they wish (unless it hurts other white people).

That said, I in no way support race crimes and wish they would stop.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted May 15, 2009 03:40 PM
Edited by Lexxan at 15:44, 15 May 2009.

I cannot believe you said that Mvass

I hope you were joking. Animals aren't "property", they are a responsibility and a source of friendship. "Property", bah! As if they were Chairs or Couches.


On the same note, I will NOT accept the suffering from innocent animals for profit. It's immoral and UNACCEPTABLE, and I WILL do anything within my power to stop this intolerable cruely, Cowardice and Greed.

____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 15, 2009 04:11 PM

Omg how can people even buy real fur when there is fake fur!

This is horrible and I hope they die and get skinned instead.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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kipshasz
kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted May 15, 2009 05:59 PM

This needs to be in the OSM.

Does this disgusting way of skining applies to leather clothing as well?
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted May 15, 2009 06:28 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 18:39, 15 May 2009.

Yea, they should throw a ban on that as animal torture. Slit the animals throat, then skin it. It literally takes 2 seconds and the animal is unconscious almost immediately. I worked in a butcher shop skinning deer for awhile and I don't even follow the logic behind it because it seems like it would be harder to skin an animal if it's alive and flopping around. It's not like the warm body is going to get cold and hard in 30 seconds.

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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted May 15, 2009 08:45 PM

This is just horrible, skinning them dead is one thing but alive is just disgusting.

I don't think we'd like it if animals or something else did the same to us, we'd probably call them 'demons' and evil creatures if they did, which is just a hypocrisy as you can see. And people wonder why I think humans are evil... well most of them anyway.
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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted May 15, 2009 09:17 PM

well we like to think ourselves as superior. but it is said that those with power are judged by how they treat their subjects.
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Protection From Everything.
dota

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted May 15, 2009 10:16 PM

It's not that easy

Quote:
Omg how can people even buy real fur when there is fake fur!

This is horrible and I hope they die and get skinned instead.


The problem is, that it's quite hard to reveal the source of the fur that you buy, whether it's fake or real. There are more humane ways to get fur (Eg: the Canadian Fur Trappers), but the source matters not to the Fur Traders. They only care about the Quality, and NOT about the way it was gotten; Whether gotten through breeding or through Hunting, to them it matter not. This has to stop.
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 16, 2009 12:33 AM

Quote:
"Property", bah! As if they were Chairs or Couches.
Emotionally, perhaps not. But from the legal point of view, they are and should be treated the same as chairs or couches.

Quote:
Jews, black people and homosexuals should be property. People should be free to skin them alive as they wish (unless it hurts other white people).
Rather than reinvent the wheel...
Quote:
what, exactly, is the purpose of rights? It is to protect individuals from harm brought upon by other individuals. But why would one do such a thing? Why would one harm other individuals? Well, obviously people, like all living things, naturally act in their own self-interest (discouraged word, but not banned). Unfortunately, in doing so, they may harm others. Without restrictions, instead of pursuing their own aims, people would have to worry about protecting themselves and their property all the time. This would actually impede general self-interest. So society (which is composed of individuals) agreed to limit each other. Though in the short run this was acting against people's self-interest, in the long run it was in favor of it.

Now, the question arises, who is included in "society"? Well, obviously society creates rights for individuals that are part of it, to protect each other from runaway selfishness. But who is protected? Who should be included?

The first question that the original "core" society should ask itself is, "Would society benefit from giving these [name of group] rights?" In the case of black people and women, the answer is obviously "yes", for the same reason that rights were created in the first place; that is, if people keep being infringed upon, they can't act in their full maximum capacity, which not only harms them but also everybody else. That is, it makes no sense to keep people forcibly enslaved and denied opportunities simply on basis of their skin color when both sides would certainly benefit from giving them rights. That is, people who work without being forced to do so work better, and don't look for attempts to work as little as possible. When people are paid according to what and how they produce, that will of course be more efficient than slavery.

If the answer to this first question is "yes", then society should give these beings rights, and that's that. But if the answer to the first question is "no", that does not necessarily mean that it shouldn't. Take, for example, TheDeath's favorite analogy: the aliens on Mars are sentinent, but aren't interested in talking to or dealing with humans. Why, then, would it not be all right to force this group into slavery? Simple - because they are sentinent. Society is not agile or shapable. Society can only give general rules - it can't be very specific. If it tries, it seriously risks endangering a group that it is trying to protect, or protecting a group it doesn't want to protect. In this case, if society said, "Enslaving humans is bad, but enslaving these aliens is OK.", some people would ask, "Hey, these aliens are sentinent, just like us. If we can enslave them, why can't we enslave humans?" And they might take action on this line of thought. That is clearly undesirable. Thus, these aliens should also have rights.

But what about animals? Here we run into a problem. First, we can't make animals respect our rights. Thus, any kind of social contract with them would be laughably one-sided. Let's say that a hunter is hunting wildebeest in the savanna, and he runs into a lion. He says, "You know what, I could kill you, and you could kill me. So let's just leave each other alone." The lion replies, "Rawr, no.", and eats the hunter. Not much of a contract, is it? Second, would we, the "core" society, gain anything from giving animals rights? No, except for maybe a few people who would get an emotional benefit. Third, if we use animals, can anyone confuse themselves and think that it's also okay to use humans like that? No, probably not.

Thus, to extend rights to someone, the group of beings has to be able to keep the contract, and also it has to be useful to original group and/or this being could be confused with humans.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted May 16, 2009 12:38 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 00:43, 16 May 2009.

Saying that the law shouldn't be changed because it's the law is a circular argument. Just because something is somebodies property, such an animal, doesn't mean it's infeasible for there to be restrictions on what you can do with it. The suggestion that animals shouldn't receive any kind of protection due to the fact that they can't maintain their end of the contract is inconsistent with laws protecting mentally handicapped or insane people, who likewise can't realistically honor their end of the contract. Also, I think we have the capacity to protect animals from certain cruelties without going as far as making them one in the same with humans beings; the end comment is merely a slippery slope, which basically applies to almost anything.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 16, 2009 12:47 AM

I'm not saying that the law shouldn't be changed simply because it's the law.

Quote:
The suggestion that animals shouldn't receive any kind of protection due to the fact that they can't maintain their end of the contract is inconsistent with laws protecting mentally handicapped or insane people, who likewise can't realistically honor their end of the contract.
But we can't really "discriminate" against them, because they are humans. As I said in my previous post:
Quote:

If the answer to this first question is "yes", then society should give these beings rights, and that's that. But if the answer to the first question is "no", that does not necessarily mean that it shouldn't. Take, for example, TheDeath's favorite analogy: the aliens on Mars are sentinent, but aren't interested in talking to or dealing with humans. Why, then, would it not be all right to force this group into slavery? Simple - because they are sentinent. Society is not agile or shapable. Society can only give general rules - it can't be very specific. If it tries, it seriously risks endangering a group that it is trying to protect, or protecting a group it doesn't want to protect. In this case, if society said, "Enslaving humans is bad, but enslaving these aliens is OK.", some people would ask, "Hey, these aliens are sentinent, just like us. If we can enslave them, why can't we enslave humans?" And they might take action on this line of thought. That is clearly undesirable. Thus, these aliens should also have rights.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted May 16, 2009 01:22 AM

It's horrible, no doubt about it.  The people who are doing it should themselves be flayed alive.

I don't really think anything else needs to be said.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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Celfious
Celfious


Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
posted May 16, 2009 02:47 AM

but atleast some animals are doing well.. Please watch this video of a dog walking a puppy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUbSDHBZNEQ
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What are you up to

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sith_of_ziost
sith_of_ziost


Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
posted May 16, 2009 03:51 AM

Yes, perhaps animals are or are not property, but there's no arguing that they are inferior creatures, not the dominant species on the planet. We use them as any other resource. How they are used is just a matter of conscience. If you feel like you can just skin an animal alive and then throw it out to the cold, its like stripping a man of his clothes and his belongings and thrown into the arctic. Yes, paralleling humans and animals is as controversial as ever, but all the same, its rather...disgusting to do such a thing. Don't get me wrong, I love animals, but they are just that: animals. Emotional connections may exist, but there's no denying that animals provide us resources just as grain or water does. No, they're not inanimate, but they are not human, and they never will be, so no one thinks otherwise.
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