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Heroes Community > WCL Heroes 3 Tournament > Thread: WCL feedback
Thread: WCL feedback This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted September 10, 2009 02:25 AM

I am with maretti on this one. If two people who have a significant gap in their strength play together, then the weak guy learns something. The least the formula can do is give one point to the strong guy as an acknowledgment for his time spent.
____________
The empty set

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 10, 2009 02:36 AM

The formula gives 5 points as a minimum to the winner.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted September 10, 2009 02:46 AM
Edited by dimis at 02:57, 10 Sep 2009.

That's too much. The maximum is 30, right ? The maximum is 20.
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The empty set

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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted September 10, 2009 08:19 AM

i can change formula, if needed. However, I would prefer to hear some proposals about formula for new separate rating: "all-the-time recursive" rating which will be counted for all games that are reported and on relative player's ratings, not only for current season.

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liophy
liophy


Famous Hero
Bulgarian
posted September 10, 2009 12:34 PM
Edited by liophy at 12:36, 10 Sep 2009.

Quote:
Oh, I thought you were saying that losing 1 point might disencourage some people from playing.


Maybe if you read the full comments you will not make such implications.

Look at this:

Quote:
I do not agree. 1 point - come on, who cares for 1 point.


Seems like i have to explain my thoughts better:  1 point doesnt change anything FOR THE RANKING, but is stupid to give a bad taste in the mouth for the looser. Exactly the principle is what i am against. Its like to rob a bank for just 1 dollar. It doesnt make sense.


But offcourse, thats just my oppinion.




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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted September 10, 2009 01:18 PM

Quote:
Its like to rob a bank for just 1 dollar.


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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted November 16, 2009 02:18 PM

This 3 day restart rule is great. Just had a nice experience with it. Keep up the good work Sag.

This is a conversation I had with a wcl player after he refused to play on after he dropped day 3 and claims he lost connection. We are talking about a player who dosent give loads.

Maretti: lol i notice u have taz in tavern
Maretti: great honor u are showing here
X: what?
Maretti: lol funny how u lose con right after a suicide
Maretti: lots dwarves left in treassurie
X: you sure it was my turn?
X: not cpu?
Maretti: Y
X: Why you think so?
Maretti: are u saying u didnt suicide?
Maretti: u must be able to remember
X: i dont remember
Maretti: lol
X: i can say that it was day 2 or 3
X: and i would like to ask rr
X: but connection problems makes me not play
Maretti: sure

End of conversation.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted November 16, 2009 04:59 PM

I know it can be frustrating. Russian players use this rule (day 3) + they also use day 1 restart very often...It is often a part of game strategy.
I personally would like to remove this rule, however I currently don't have better substitution for this rule.
I can make script (for TE version) that will check passibility (as well as fight value/HP of guards) of cells around starting towns and on the roads; if you have any idea how to calculate automatically situations when player may ask for restart - let me know.
What I don't want to do : to make any unclear "reasonable" restarts. I think that restart rule must be very simple, clear and most probably automatic.
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I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted November 16, 2009 06:09 PM

I think you should remove this restart for no reson rule and let players find out themselves. Ill give you some resons:

1. As far as I know allmost all wcl players dont like this rule. This guy i mentioned even said it was a bad rule but he wanted to use it in this case.

2. Many people play random towns and heroes. This setup is hurt badly by the restart rule. Even if you pick towns, some towns will suffer. Towns like castle and inferno gains from getting a nonenative main hero but if you get a good main you have to hide him from at least 3 days to avoid a restart. Some times you cant hide him because of an observatory. Its simply stinks.

3. 3 days means a lot of times wasted when someone asks for restart. It can be an hour in to the game.

4. Ofcourse you can mention in the prereport that you dont play with this rule. But I would prefer that the default rules are as good as possible. Makes things easier. Its also a problem that if you have allready made the prereport and the map turns out to be unplayeble for one reson or the other, you cant delete the prereport again. So most players wait with the prereport till the game is over or its clear that it will end.

5. If a player has allready asked for a restart he could be blocked. In this case you have gained nothing with the restart rule, the players still have to decide whether a restart is fair or not.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted November 16, 2009 07:12 PM

Quote:
I think you should remove this restart for no reson rule and let players find out themselves.

i'm afraid that players will not find out themselves. Possibly I will get a lot questions like:
"May I ask for restart if 1 road is blocked? My opponent declined to give restart"
"May I ask for restart if all roads are blocked? My opponent declined to give restart"
"May I ask for restart if my Ore mine is blocked? My opponent declined to give restart"
"May I ask for restart if I don't have road to second town on Balance? My opponent declined to give restart"
"May I ask for 3 restarts in a row? My opponent declined to give restart"
"May I ask for restart if road is Dirt? My opponent declined to give restart"
etc
etc
etc
Rule should be clear and simple.
____________
I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted November 16, 2009 11:56 PM

Quote:
Rule should be clear and simple.
Yep. If both players can't agree upon a restart, then NO restart at all. Very easy...very clear..no interpretation.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 17, 2009 10:12 AM

The only thing I could see for a restart would be a huge pack of titans in front of your town. Other that, secondary towns no reachable, ore mine not accessible, all this is part of a random setup and not lethal. After looking at saves from WCL it seems to me the mines and secondary towns are placed on templates only to give something to do the first week. Players do not need ore/wood as there are plenty around and the income of a secondary town has little impact while all people rush to break 1.2.4.

Where is the randomness then if everything has to be perfect?
____________
All my Era II mods

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Siegfried
Siegfried


Famous Hero
posted November 17, 2009 10:46 AM

Quote:

Where is the randomness then if everything has to be perfect?

Wise words!

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black_knight
black_knight


Known Hero
LT League
posted November 17, 2009 01:37 PM

Can be 2 Default rules - WCL Default SoD / TE.

Anyway i dont like:

- no Necro / Flux - that you cant build new buildings in these towns if you find it. For me it's absurd

About restarts - agree, that is wasting of time. Can be max one rest day 1.

Hit&Run can be easier too.

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sachelos
sachelos


Known Hero
posted November 18, 2009 07:50 PM

hi

@Maretti: it's not important at all, but i think i know what player from WCL you are talking about; there are few who don't give loads at all Won't say his name but i'll just make a guess, hope i am right with it: does his handle starts with an "S...."
cheers

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black_knight
black_knight


Known Hero
LT League
posted November 19, 2009 09:40 AM

Quote:
Won't say his name but i'll just make a guess, hope i am right with it: does his handle starts with an "S...."
cheers

S.....achelos! Am i right ?, good morning

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted November 19, 2009 11:31 AM

S........AG







____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted November 19, 2009 12:53 PM

There is only 1 possible clear rule: No restarts.
If you are unlucky enough that a horde of Titans blocks your home town, report a loss and move on to playing game 2.

snow happens, people need to stop whining as they want to play random maps. Flaming fixed maps (even the best ones) was/is easy enough for them, right? Bot of course a loss because of being blocked would hurt the ego too much. And the niveau would sink!

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 19, 2009 01:36 PM

Sorry I don't agree. Even on random maps a tournament ranking has to show the level of players, not some random template going wrong. If clearly the player can't develop and he is blocked, a restart is necessary, giving free win for that would spoil the fun for the winner and frustrate enough the loser.
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All my Era II mods

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sachelos
sachelos


Known Hero
posted November 19, 2009 03:39 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Won't say his name but i'll just make a guess, hope i am right with it: does his handle starts with an "S...."
cheers

S.....achelos! Am i right ?, good morning


Funny b_k
In fact it really doesnt matter who the player is, it's just i made a guess cuz i think i played him several months ago and ask for load and never got it, and there are few (very few) who dont give loads..

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