|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted November 01, 2009 01:26 PM |
|
|
Mytical, you shouldn't see this so black and white. I mean, think about how people got their anatomic knowledge a couple centuries ago: they stole corpses.
For humans there is this thin line between "blindly" following each and every rule basically never "risking" anything, and trying to make things better whatever that may be. Since humans are imperfect, risking something always involves the danger of ERROR.
That is so in hitsory as well. Not every thing that turned bad has been done in bad or evil intention. On the contrary - most really horrible things have been done out of GOOD intentions, probably combined with ignorance and over-confidence.
That's what "imnperfection" actually means. This is a well known thing and in small and limited ways even funny, for example when considering the jokes about "famous last words".
No amount of following the Bible or anything can change that, because even THERE lurks the danger of being over-zealous and everything that comes with being too religiously fanatical.
Which is the thing. Oftentimes it's the BEST. not the worst, intentions that lead to the most abominable things.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted November 01, 2009 09:42 PM |
|
|
Quote:
That is just it Anti. I absolutely love some of the things that religions SHOULD stand for. It does teach good morals (usually) and for the most part their members are kind and caring. Yet..it is always the ones who twist the teaching to their own agenda that get the spotlight. Like Hitler quoting the bible to 'prove' that Germany was doing the right thing and would win. *shakes head*.
Hitler hated Jews, Christianity, and the Bible, as my quotes of him prove. Hitler was oh so very far from being a Christian.
It seems that Hitler was an atheist who believed in the occult.
There is no quote from the Bible that could justify killing Jews. All of the Bible except for the book of Acts and the gospel of Luke was written by Jews.
Quote:
That is so in hitsory as well. Not every thing that turned bad has been done in bad or evil intention. On the contrary - most really horrible things have been done out of GOOD intentions, probably combined with ignorance and over-confidence.
I wold have to dispute that. Do you think Hitler's murder of 13 milliion people was out of good intention? Well, he was trying to design a "master race" and kill the "sub-humans." Surely you don't think such goals are good?
How about Stalin? His murder of millions to establish an atheistic communist "utopia", you think that was a good thing? His murder of religious people just because they were religious in order to try to stamp out religion, you think that goal was a good thing?
Mao, Pol Pot, ect?
No, most really horrible things have been done out of selfishness by evil men who were definately not trying to do good.
Quote:
No amount of following the Bible or anything can change that, because even THERE lurks the danger of being over-zealous and everything that comes with being too religiously fanatical.
Nah, if everyone followed the teachings of the New Testament earth would be a virtual utopia. Jesus taught us to love, pray for, and do good to even our enemies and to love everyone as ourselves.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted November 01, 2009 09:43 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I wold have to dispute that. Do you think Hitler's murder of 13 milliion people was out of good intention? Well, he was trying to design a "master race" and kill the "sub-humans." Surely you don't think such goals are good?
He certainly thought he was doing the good thing.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 01, 2009 10:27 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Nah, if everyone followed the teachings of the New Testament earth would be a virtual utopia. Jesus taught us to love, pray for, and do good to even our enemies and to love everyone as ourselves.
"Sorry" but how can you be so sure of this? You say following those teachings but still most people here are going out of their nuts when communicating with you.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 12:59 AM |
|
Edited by Elodin at 01:00, 02 Nov 2009.
|
Errrrr....it would seem obvious that if everyone loved each other and sought their good that the world would be a much better place.
As for some people going nuts, yes, some atheists and those opposed to Christianity become frustrated when presented with the truth (like the universe needing a cause, the fact of atheist tyrants who were mass murderers, and no Christian being a murderer.)
When the truth is spoken it often causes a stir by those who don't like it.
Of course when folks start making false claims about Christianity I like to remind them of those true atheist tyrants and about who Jesus says is actually one of his sheep.
____________
Revelation
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 01:02 AM |
|
|
I don't think anyone here is annoyed with your ideas, but with the way you present them. 
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 06:20 AM |
|
|
Quote:
(like the universe needing a cause, the fact of atheist tyrantswho were mass murderers, and no Christian being a murderer.)
Just hillarious, needed a good laugh.
Bolded the important part however. It wouldn't matter if they believed in the deep blue and purple dinosaur as a god. Which proves my point. You can't see that atheism, or the lack of belief in god, has NOTHING to do with it. Like the people in the Crusades, who killed because people believed in something different then they did. Or extream Muslims who kill because somebody believes differently then they do. It has nothing to do with the ACTUAL belief. IE The double standard that causes the LIE in your statement. However, you won't see that. *Shrugs* so I won't even try.
Also, the last part is absolutely wrong as well. See, just because the people who they trusted did not actually follow the bible or christ, and just wanted to further their own agenda, does not mean that the people under them were not christians. Christians led astray, yes, but they believed and worshiped in Christianity. The common person that killed in the Crusades did so because they were led to believe that it was what God wanted. They could not read (for the most part), and the ones who could told them that the same bible you hold dear said this. They were good, honest people, who loved god dearly, and monsters used that against them. THEY were Christians, and their sins were laid on those who led them astray.
If you think that the Crusades were the only time this happened you are greatly mistaken as well. Just ask some of the tribes in Africa. It was 'worship our god or die' for a lot of them.
They killed, murdered, because that is what they were told God wanted. Just like the extream Muslims who kill any person who will not convert to Muslim. They have been led astray. I am neither an Athiest nor do I hate Christians. Christianity has as much to do with the murders in the Crusades, the Salem Witch Trials, and such as Atheism has to do with people like Hitler. IE NOTHING. *shakes head*
____________
Message received.
|
|
wog_edn
Promising
The Nothingness
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 06:54 AM |
|
|
Really don't see why you bother, he'll come up with some kind of lame twisted answer to it anyway ... everyone vs him, and he won't even accept even the slightest bit of truth. Sad.
____________
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 06:58 AM |
|
|
Quote:
You can't see that atheism, or the lack of belief in god, has NOTHING to do with it.
It is unfortunate that a moderator has chosen to continue to comment about me personally instead of addressing the arguments I present.
The fact is when you say I can't see something (and I haven't said I can't see it) you are either:
1) Lying or
2) Delusional (you actually think you can read minds) or
3) you have misunderstood what I said;
because you can't read my mind.
I plainly said atheistts can be moral.
The fact is atheism places NO value on human life. Humans are just a random bag or random chemicals reacting randomly if there is no God and have no greater value than any other animal or any object for that matter.
The lack of value that the atheist tyrants have for human life certainly contributed greatly to them murdering untold millinos of people. Their lack of belief in God meant to them no one was watching them or would hold them accountable for their actions too.
Quote:
Like the people in the Crusades, who killed because people believed in something different then they did.
No Christian can be a murderer according to Jesus and his apostles. I've already quoted some relevant verses.
And Jesus never authorized his church to raise an army. Now Muslims did invade Christian nations and the Crusades are a result of that, at least the first Crusades were in response to the Muslim invasions.
Quote:
However, you won't see that. *Shrugs* so I won't even try.
Perhaps it is you who won't see.
|
|
Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 07:09 AM |
|
Edited by Mytical at 07:38, 02 Nov 2009.
|
Actually I have addressed the issues, and apparently I am correct, you are not seeing it. The lack of believing in a god (and not just the Christian god) does not make people amoral OR lead to them thinking life is worthless. Proves my point that you are not indeed seeing it.
Anyhow, I am out of this 'discussion'. I've addressed the issues, I've proven my case. Atheism was not the cause, it was the persons own hate, bias, and ambition. They could have been a Christian, a Buddist, a Muslim, or follow the Flying Orange Monkey. Like others in the past they may have held a certain belief, but the actual belief had nothing to do with their actions. It was personal hate, ambition, and their own glory. It was an excuse.
Edit : If you hold one 'belief' system responsible for something done by somebody who follows that system (however erroniously)..then ALL belief systems must be held responsible. Atheism is just not believing in a god. That's it. Not disregard for all life, not anything similar to it. Just not believing in a god. *shrugs*
____________
Message received.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 08:24 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Just hillarious, needed a good laugh.
Yeah, it IS hilarious.
Myth, don't start every second post about how you are out now; it's obvious that the folly of this is irking you, but what DO you expect?
In the other thread people are discussing what is pervertedly called "the greatest sin" - the worst sin might be a better title; anyway, they failed to name it, because the worst sin is those of our fathers and forefathers.
On the very personal level there is no worse sin than abusing children, because that abuse will continue; it's no happenstance that most abusers have been victim of abuse themselves, and if you deine "abuse" very loosely, you are already there. Children are abused in many different ways and not only sexually.
Conflicts are transferred from parents to children as well. If a child loses home and parents in a US bombing raid - as collateral damage -, chances are it won't see that its parents were just unlucky to die in some clash that shouldn't have happened and that doesn't allow putting the blame squarely to one side. Chances are it will simply grow to hate those who killed its parents.
That is even true in cases where you CAN fix the blame to a definitely guilty party - even then children may see that differently and simply resent the loss.
Christian religion, as it was officially brought to the people by its official priests, after its official recognition as STATE religion has done nothing for their "sheep" and everything to support the ruling classes. It has been a major conquering force as well over the course of history. To deny that those people were Christians, is simply delusional, since they acted in the name of that religion, and their contemperaries took them for Christians. They have betrayed the religion and the people that trusted them - and they had to pay the price for that, eventually. In the French Revolution they sent the Clerics to hell as well - and that's true for the Russian Revolution, too.
The reason for the strong hate is RATHER obvious: from the noblemen you can expect no more than arrogance and the will to reign and so on. From the clergy you can and should expect more than that.
And for those who deny that those priests were Christians - no reason to complain, then: they killed the wolves in sheep cloth.
It's not evil intention that led Marx and Engels to the realization that "religion is opium to the people" - it's simply the analysis of what it had been misused for in all those centuries. It's clear and obvious, and it's true.
In any case it's one hell of a lot easier to communicate the idea to love thy neighbour within the walls of the next Waldorf school in Hollywood Heights or some other posh place than, say, in the war-torn ruin landscape of Bosnia.
People's mind and imagination is limited by nature, and taking things at face value is fairly natural. When your home is bombed, the bombing nation is evil, that one is a fairly easy conclusion.
The sins of our fathers.
There would have been no Hitler, Stalin or Mao without those - and without something like a general consent within the population to chop some wood now (and let some splinters fall). Of course those things tend to get out of hand.
In any case I agree with you, Mytical, and I'd go a step farther. People like Elodin won't indeed see the double standards they have and preach as well. Others will, though, and those others draw their conclusions from it. Every strong believer coming with this kind of flaw will damage the reputation of their religion. People havenÄ't been come to resent religion because they hate Christ or his teachings. People have come to do it because of the double standards that have been always there, the difference in preaching and doing and so on.
And it's only human - it takes a lot of good will to differentiate between the theory of an ideology (in this respect religions are ideologies as well) and that you shouldn't damn the whole theory because a couple of people botched it.
You might think that the religious types should be the ones to have that good will first and foremost - but there we are again with the double standards...
|
|
Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 08:42 AM |
|
Edited by Mytical at 08:59, 02 Nov 2009.
|
JJ now you I can discuss with, but I think you are mistaken. The sins of our fathers is not the greatest sins. Nor of their fathers, nor of theirs. The greatest sin is ego, and I am more guilty then some. The "I [or my religion/belief system (or lack thereof for atheist] is the only possible truth. Yet, I can't even tell you why, it just is." or "I [or my race] is the true race, all others are evil." or "I [and my political veiw] is the only right one, all others are deluded."
That is what really irks me. The double standard held. Somebody who happens to hold another belief system does something then it is that belief systems 'fault'. If somebody with my belief system does something, then they were 'false believers' and my faith shouldn't be blamed. A double standard. Either all are, or neither are. For me the belief system has as much to do with it as fried chicken has to do with the price of rice in Italy.
Hate comes in many forms, and it is sad. Hate is the worst sin, because it is ignorance, it is easy to manipulate, and worst of all..people won't even recognize the fact that they hate. I will though. I absolute hate. I hate hate. 
Edit : And Jolly, I do know some Christians that absolutely not only preach what they believe, but LIVE it also. I have so much respect for them because it is near impossible to achieve.
____________
Message received.
|
|
wog_edn
Promising
The Nothingness
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 09:33 AM |
|
Edited by wog_edn at 09:40, 02 Nov 2009.
|
Quote:
The fact is atheism places NO value on human life. Humans are just a random bag or random chemicals reacting randomly if there is no God and have no greater value than any other animal or any object for that matter.
Yess ... exactly what make you think you're worth more than other living beings? You're fanaticly religious, that makes you worth more? ( )
____________
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 10:13 AM |
|
|
Mytical, we have a slight misunderstanding here. When I say "the sins of our fathers" I mean all those bad things a child concludes - consciously and subconsciously - from the stuff simply happening.
This can be a sexual abuse as a very obvious case - which is first and foremost a brutal violatioon of trust -, it can be other bad things happening to them through violence, war and so on, but it goes down to simple adaption to behaviour considered normal within familiy/neighborhood/society: if slaves are natural, most children will view them as natural as well - the same way than a cell phone is something natural to have now.
I agree about double standards, of course, since I began the current posting round by comparing Christian religion with Communism, complaining about the double standards, but it's not that difficult to see where those double standards generally come from. A person can have a double standard only when they deny it - if theys wouldn't deny it they would see it and correct it.
Which means, it's in the nature of the thing that people with double standards will deny they have them, otherwise they wouldn't have them in the first place. 
Of course it would be an interesting discussion to find the reason for double standards. I think, the higher the moral horse is you sit upon, the more prone you are to fall down, and the more prone you are to fall down the higher the likelihood for double standards. The reason for this is that the high moral horse often leads to judging the behaviour of others from a position that doesn't really allow it, because the judges never were in the shoes of the people they judge. However, IF they judge, they are committed, but a revision of judgement is not really possible, especially considering community pressure to conform.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 10:20 AM |
|
|
JJ
Quote:
In any case I agree with you, Mytical, and I'd go a step farther. People like Elodin won't indeed see the double standards they have and preach as well.
Ah yes, "the other side" gets to continue their insults unabated. A double standard indeed.
Quote:
Christian religion, as it was officially brought to the people by its official priests, after its official recognition as STATE religion has done nothing for their "sheep" and everything to support the ruling classes.
Which nations have Christianity as the state religion?
Actually Christianity has many thousands of organizations to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, put water pumps in African villages, ect. Atheism has none. In fact atheism has made not one positive contribution to society at all.
The average minister makes less than the average non-minister and works longer hours.
No, saying ministers have fleeced the flock would seem to be nothing but untruth and unwarranted defamation of the character of good hearted people who work for the good of others.
Of course leaders of officially atheist nations have indeed enriched themselves at the expense of the people.
Quote:
It has been a major conquering force as well over the course of history. To deny that those people were Christians, is simply delusional, since they acted in the name of that religion, and their contemperaries took them for Christians.
No, on both counts. What is delusional is for someone to think he can say people are Christians who Christ said are not. But some atheists just love to smear Christianity and have not the slightest interest in the truth.
Quote:
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Sorry, Christ gets to define who is his, not you.
Quote:
It's not evil intention that led Marx and Engels to the realization that "religion is opium to the people" - it's simply the analysis of what it had been misused for in all those centuries. It's clear and obvious, and it's true.
It was delusional of Marx to say religion is a drug. Well, some religions such as atheism, indoctrinated by an atheistic state leads one to be a brain dead robot, merely repeating what the States says so atheistic indoctrination by such a state could be considered a drug.
What seems to be pretty clear is that many religions, in particular, Christianity, have had very beneficial effects on society. Atheism being a notable exception.
Quote:
In any case it's one hell of a lot easier to communicate the idea to love thy neighbour within the walls of the next Waldorf school in Hollywood Heights or some other posh place than, say, in the war-torn ruin landscape of Bosnia.
Again, Christians have organizations that help others in many different places in many different ways. Atheists have none. To say Christians don't minister in or near war zones just shows ignorance of the organizations Christians have in place.
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20090425/christian-relief-to-distribute-food-near-sri-lanka-war-zone/index.html
Of course, some Muslim nations will not allow Christian ministries to help their people.
Are there any atheist organizations helping in war zones? Noperz.
Quote:
People's mind and imagination is limited by nature, and taking things at face value is fairly natural. When your home is bombed, the bombing nation is evil, that one is a fairly easy conclusion.
America's war on terror is not a sin. Of course if there is collateral damage some people who don't understand war might blame the US. Unfortunately it is impossible to conduct war without collateral damage, especially when the cowardly terrorists hide in the civilian population. America is not at wear with Iraq by the way. US soldiers fight side by side with Iraqis.
Fortunately,most Iraqis with a brain are glad not to be under Saddam's thumb. The terrorists are to blame.
Quote:
There would have been no Hitler, Stalin or Mao without those - and without something like a general consent within the population to chop some wood now (and let some splinters fall). Of course those things tend to get out of hand
Without the "sins of the fathers" you mean? I can only suppose you are speaking of atheism and Marxism since those were common to each of those and each of the men expressed a hatred of religion.
Quote:
In any case I agree with you, Mytical, and I'd go a step farther. People like Elodin won't indeed see the double standards they have and preach as well.
What I see is one side of the debate being allowed to use personal insults and the other not. And the other side seemingly incapable of engaging in a discussion without the use of insults.
No, I'm not the one with double standards.
Certainly the New Testament defines who is a Christian, not you.
Quote:
Yess ... exactly what make you think you're worth more than other living beings? You're fanaticly religious, that makes you worth more? ()
I'm a fanatic for the truth since you insist on applying the word fanatic to me.
Of course people are more valuable than a rabbit or a rock. Even most atheists would agree with that, despite their profession of atheism.
What makes a person more valuable than a rock is that a person is a person. Humanity is a special creation of God capable of fellowshipping with God. A rock is just a rock. A rabbit is just a rabbit. Both have their place in nature but neither is on equal par with mankind.
Of course, yes, die hard atheists who understand the implications of their philosophy will have to say a person is just a random assortment of chemicals of no particular worth.
Mystical
Quote:
Actually I have addressed the issues, and apparently I am correct, you are not seeing it. The lack of believing in a god (and not just the Christian god) does not make people amoral OR lead to them thinking life is worthless. Proves my point that you are not indeed seeing it.
You seem to be having trouble comprehending what you are reading. I have repeatedly said atheists can be moral people and that not all atheists view people as worthless.
But the concept of atheism certainly does imply people are worthless. Just an accident of nature. A random assortment of chemicals that occurred accidentally.
No, you have proven nothing except perhaps that you are either deliberately or somehow inadvertently misrepresenting what I have said.
Quote:
They could have been a Christian, a Buddist, a Muslim, or follow the Flying Orange Monkey.
No, the New Testament defines Christianity and so we know no Christian can murder. And I would certainly say that any the philosophy that a person is nothing but an accident of nature contributed to the actions of the people holding that philosophy.
Again, I did not say atheists can't be moral people. I've said that many times.
Of course the thread was resurrected by an atheist (October 22) who made comments about me, Jesus, the Bible , and the existence of God. When presented with the fact that the universe could not produce itself according to the laws of thermodynamics certain atheists abandoned all pretense of debate and began throwing our random insults and false accusations against Christianity. Yet it seems they are unwilling to attribute anything negative to atheism or to debate without insulting their "opponent."
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 10:41 AM |
|
|
Quote:
When presented with the fact that the universe could not produce itself according to the laws of thermodynamics certain atheists abandoned all pretense of debate and began throwing our random insults and false accusations against Christianity. Yet it seems they are unwilling to attribute anything negative to atheism or to debate without insulting their "opponent."
Would you finally stop using science when you NEED it, and claiming "You can't use science" when it does NOT fit in your view of the world?
500 years ago no one could ever think about something with a weight of hundreds of tons could fly. Nowadays it is pretty normaly you see thousands of jumbo jets flying around the world.
Only because we are not able YET to explain something doesn't mean we won't find a way in the future.
This is how religion works. If you can't explain something, it is God's work. Like hundreds of years ago refering to "solar eclipses" for example. Of course this was an easy way to tell the "normal "people God is very angry about their behaviour and they have to prey more and give more sacrificials to the religious leader to calm down God's angerness. Who could have known a different reason for that solar eclipse that time?
But science shows more and more how "fantastic" (not meaning GREAT, but ONLY LIVING IN YOUR FANTASY) the whole bible and the belief is.
Some people realize it and start to open their eyes, others will live in the past forever.
For each their own
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 11:03 AM |
|
|
Quote:
But science shows more and more how "fantastic" (not meaning GREAT, but ONLY LIVING IN YOUR FANTASY) the whole bible and the belief is.
Sorry, but the Bible is not only in my fantasy. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that the Bible is the best selling book of all time. Far more people find words of wisdom in it than from the fantasies of atheists.
Sorry, science has shown the universe is not eternal. It had a definite beginning and according to the laws of thermodynamics, it needed a cause. An uncaused cause. Eternal and self-existent. God. So faith the universe came into being without God is just a fantasy existing in the minds of disciples of atheism.
No, the Bible and Christianity is not fantasy, but fantastic.
Quote:
Would you finally stop using science when you NEED it, and claiming "You can't use science" when it does NOT fit in your view of the world?
Sorry, but I've never claimed you can't present science. Maybe you are thinking of one of the folks who rejects the laws of thermodynamics in order to maintain faith that God does not exist?
|
|
Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 11:07 AM |
|
Edited by Mytical at 11:17, 02 Nov 2009.
|
Atheism does not imply anything except that their is no higher power. Period. Show me one place where any definition of Atheism even implies anything else? As for the 'double standard' guess you havn't heard. I'm done being the Nanny. Everybody can stew in their own filth for all I care. You mistake my wording for insults, that is fine. I am not insulted by your response, because I expect the response.
Issue - Atheism is responsible for 250 million deaths. Fact - This is a false statement. Because Atheism just is a belief that there is no god, not a "Lets kill em all and sort em out later". It does not imply, state, or even hint that people are worthless. Just that some divine being didn't just point a finger say "Zap" and the universe was created.
Fact - There are serveral 'versions' of the bible. Or do I need to point out the fact that there is the King James Version, The Mormon Version, The Jewish Version, etc? Fact - Most 'die hard' religious people won't even admit that there are other versions..but that theirs is the ONLY true version, and all the others false. Yet the others say the exact same thing..go figure.
Edit : Yeah I know I should just drop it, and believe me I try. Somebody is good though, they can hit all my buttons, and I just can't keep my trap shut. Even though I know it does zero good, and just makes things worse.
Fact - Being of a certain faith does not preclude ANYTHING, even murder. Why? Because we are not divine or perfect beings. There are temptations, and people of ALL faith and beliefs fall victim to them. A good god fearing christian can see his wife raped, and kill the rapist. Call it 'murder' or 'killing' or whatever you like..he took a life. He may repent, he may be sorry, god may forgive him, but it doesn't change what happened. Do I blame him? Do I think it is 'evil' NO.
Fact - The Average 'soldier' in the Crusades were god fearing Christians. Misled, because they could not read, but they worshiped god and christ, and honestly thought they were doing GOOD. Being wrong mislead and wrong does not forgive anything. Again, I am not blaming Christians, or Christ, or the religion. I KNOW that it was ambitious HUMANS who caused it. Doesn't change the fact that they WERE christians.
Fact - The scriptures you quoted mean absolutely zero. Why? Because we do not follow your belief. So you can quote a billion scriptures and change nothing.
Fact - You tend to take insult when there is not any. Go for it, knock yourself out. Take insult with everything I say, I could give a rats behind. Insult me back, I could give a rats behind. Call me a godless atheist child murdering idiot. Won't make it true, nor will it affect me at all, don't care what you think of me.
Fact - There are many excuses people use to do all kinds of things. Race, Religion, Atheism, Jimbobfurley bob..but that is all it is .. an Excuse. If it was not one excuse it would be another.
Fact - Us 'godless atheist heathens' are not neccessarily godless, nor atheist, but we maybe Heathens. . May even be becoming more proud of that fact every second.
You have proved nothing, you quote scripture..but so what? I can quote too "An it harm none do as thou will." does that make me right? Nope. Maybe you shouldn't do as you will, even if it doesn't hurt anybody. It isn't PROOF, as other people have their own scripture, and can quote theirs too, yet it be entirely different. So what makes yours more 'true' then theirs? Because you say so? Because you were told so? No .. sorry. That is not proof.
I am not trying to prove god doesn't exist. In fact, I believe he does. Just not YOUR god, as YOU believe. Because the god I believe in is the God I was taught exists. The one that says "Love thy neighbor as thyself." and doesn't say "Oh but you can't love them THAT WAY." The one that says "ALL are equal in my eyes." but not "Except those that don't believe in me, or those over there who love somebody the wrong way, or that one over there for..."
The one that is good and pure, and about love. The one that says "Come as you are, all are welcome." not "No..you can't come because you are different.." (IE gay, lesbian, believe a different faith)
Unlike some I will admit, I can be wrong. God could have a lot of double standards. He could be a jerk for all I know. ((Want to note that this is seperate from what is to follow))
In the end, You could be absolutely correct. Your God might be the 'one true god'. Or..it could be Allah, or Zeus, or Gia, or *shrugs*. If so, I will go to the 'firey pits' proudly. Because I want no part in a God that has double standards (When it comes to who can love who HOW, and claiming to be a 'god of love').
____________
Message received.
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 12:05 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Atheism has none. In fact atheism has made not one positive contribution to society at all.
It got us out of the dark ages. The people with territories who specifically brought us out of the dark ages, almost all of em become atheists.
So, I claim that atheism has done more than Christianity.
____________
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted November 02, 2009 12:20 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Sorry, but the Bible is not only in my fantasy. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that the Bible is the best selling book of all time. Far more people find words of wisdom in it than from the fantasies of atheists.
Closely followed by Harry Potter. Numbers of sold books say nothing about the containing truth, but just how interesting it is to read
Quote:
Sorry, science has shown the universe is not eternal. It had a definite beginning and according to the laws of thermodynamics, it needed a cause. An uncaused cause.
This is the current situation. As far as I remember, people on this planet thought Newton is right with all his theories....until Einstein came up with something "better". So in opposit to religion, Science is able to improve
Quote:
No, the Bible and Christianity is not fantasy, but fantastic.
So is Harry Potter
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
