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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted July 28, 2009 07:20 PM |
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Edited by Nirual at 19:20, 28 Jul 2009.
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New starting bonus concept: Subfactions
Greetings all, thought I'd toss my hat in for a minor idea I had for the next heroes.
Right now, we have only 3 starting bonus options, while there are many more choices for the other options (faction, heroes).
So this idea essentially replaces these limited and quite random options (especially artifact) with starting boni based on what part of the faction (clans, regions, etc) you choose to be.
I'll make an example based on Haven since the game mentioned a lot of their duchies.
Feedback is of course welcome
Griffin Duchy
Formerly the centre of the Empire, the Griffin Duchies has suffered a lot through the machinations of Necromancers and Demons just aswell as the valiant efforts to drive them out. Not much of the former glory of Talonguard and the surroundings remain, but the survivors are battle-hardened veterans.
Starting bonus: Starting hero recieves 1000 experience.
Bull Duchy
Bordering on Heresh, the realm of the Necromancers, the Bull Duchy has seen a lot of the undead, but not always in a clash of steel. Many a curious noble as met similiarly openminded Necromancers in secret, sometimes even forged alliances with them. Be it through battle or diplomacy, the heroes of this duchy have picked up quite a few arcane tricks, though few have learned actual Necromancy.
Starting bonus: Starting hero recieves +1 spellpower.
Raven Duchy
The Raven Duchy has never been known for their valour in battle, but it's people are industrious traders, delivering goods to where they are needed and often investing the profit into better trade routes.
Starting bonus: Starting town starts with a marketplace built for free
Stag Duchy
Bordering on the lands of the Dwarves, the Stag Duchy has profited much from the friendship between King Duncan and King Wulfstan, both from trading and the exchange of knowledge. While the secrets of Rune Magic are kept strictly, the leaders of the duchy still learned some useful tricks
Starting bonus: Starting hero recieves +1 knowledge.
Falcon Duchy
Though its former glory as the seat of the Falcon empire has long since faded, this duchy still prides itself as the duchy of great leaders that inspire the hearts of their soldiers like noone other. Few can resist to be part of such a proud army, and so the duchy can always count on a few extra soldiers for any military endeavour.
Starting bonus: Starting hero recieves extra units for each stack (3 for tier 1, 2 for tier 2, 1 for tier 3 and above).
Unicorn Duchy
The nobles of this duchy have always been loyal defenders of the Empire, and their soldiers the first to rise to the defense while the other duchies are still mobilizing. Facing great numbers will not scare these defenders, they will stand their ground until others are ready.
Starting bonus: Starting hero recieves +1 defense.
Greyhound Duchy
The Greyhounds look back at a long line of Warrior Queens who have villigantly defended the Empire while their husbands cared for economical matters to support them. While that glory has faded, many of the nobles of this line still posess the courage and fury that made these ancient Queens such frightening adversaries for all that would harm the Empire
Starting bonus: Starting Hero recieves +1 attack.
Wolf Duchy
Often also called the Golden Lands, the Wolf Duchy is home to a number of the Empires most profitable goldmines. Even though much of that income is spent to ensure their safety, the Duchy still finds a few extra coins to support offensive actions.
Starting bonus: +1000 gold.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 28, 2009 07:23 PM |
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I'm not sure it'd really be worth the trouble to implement it for such a small detail, but I like it. It reminds me of the special town bonuses introduced Heroes 5, which I find a nice feature.
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What will happen now?
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted July 28, 2009 07:29 PM |
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The town boni were part of my inspiration for this, along with the idea of customizing the factions a bit more. I originally had a bit more in mind but thought it would be a bit much to have yet another option when starting the game. And most people pick the artifact bonus anyway...
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 28, 2009 07:33 PM |
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True, the artifact thing is imba in current game.
I really like what you did, it just seems a lot to work out 8 different classes for each faction, but hey, it really adds atmosphere, and most of them deffinitely have merit.
For Elves, it could be different clans (Stag, Wolf ...)
For Stronghold, it could be different tribes.
The Dwarves also have a number of clans, so it deffinitely should be possible to come up with some cool things.
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What will happen now?
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted July 28, 2009 09:56 PM |
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The Duchies are already named after animals, repeating that with the Elves might be a tad bid confusing. I'd be more fond of a clan system much like the dark elves, but with a nature/beauty theme rather than shadow/pain (Shadowbrand, Soulscar etc). Or they could be separated by different saplings of Brythigga (not sure if that's the correct spelling). Wizards would probably go after the Academy they gratuated at, Necromancers by different regions of Heresh... Demons would be tricky but major towns within Sheogh should be suitable.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Bladeshade
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 29, 2009 08:39 PM |
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I like these bonuses better than the original ones. Small deatails, sure, but for example I, a guy who focus on being able to cast high level spells without wasting all my mana, is in need of much mana, and therefore also high knowledge.
Also, my favourite hero is Solmyr, at least in the H3 games, and he is able to cast the spell "Chain Lightning". But there is one problem, at least at the start of each game, he has just enough mana to cast it once during each battle, and then he'll have 6 mana left for other spells, which is quite useless if I encounter other creatures without recovering my mana.
The original starting bonuses are pretty much useless, too. The amount of gold is of no use, as it is rarely enough to more than a market, or a weeks population of lvl 1 creatures. The extra resources aren't of much importance either, and the artifacts, which are the most usefull, aren't that good either.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted July 29, 2009 08:50 PM |
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Well, there are no heroes in V that start with spells they have not enough mana for. And I definitely wouldn't want any of these starting boni to feel mandatory for any heroes.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Bladeshade
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 29, 2009 09:01 PM |
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Well... Solmyr DOES have Chain Lightning as his speciality, but starts with Basic Wisdom and Basic Sorcery. So instead of picking a hero with Sorcery as it's speciality (Which also does make him/her alittle more powerful with that skill), I get Chain Lightning as a bonus instead, and also makes me more poerful with that spell. This makes many battles easier, and proves very usefull in hard combats.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 02, 2009 10:19 PM |
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I really like this idea!
yet it would mostly come to something like clans, wouldn't it?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted August 02, 2009 10:23 PM |
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I like the concept but not the specific implementation you gave it - it feels like you're heavyhanding the Ashan lore into the core of gameplay, which is wrong to me in cases outside the campaigns (say, if someone creates a custom scenario in a different setting/world). That's one of the (few) things I disliked in Heroes V, the only major other one being Ashan itself  .
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted August 02, 2009 10:57 PM |
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Edited by Nirual at 22:59, 02 Aug 2009.
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Well, I like flavor text like that. Wouldn't be the same if I just said "this duchy gives you this starting bonus".
It's the same as the town boni and hero specialisations. Hell, the former are don't even explain what they do directly.
However, I do agree that this might be a bit much for multiplayer, but the uninspired messages in H5 don't quite create the same immersion as the texts in earlier games.
So I guess the lore part would only show for singleplayer scenarios, for multiplayer you might even only get the bare bones of the starting bonus itself.
Or better yet, it's a map property that can be disabled if the setting is far removed from the main story-line (be it time, location or an entirely new setting).
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 02, 2009 11:19 PM |
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Wow, great Idea!
Let's see what we can do for other Factions:
Inferno: maybe Each City follows one particular Demon Lord (like prior to Mal-Beleth?) otherwise, I can't think of anything else.
Necropolis: Different Necromancy Cults, that can give you additional units, (Skeletons, Zombies or Ghosts), Knowledge, Defence of Spellpower, or maybe some particular artefact (like those that boost Necromancy Skill?)
Dungeon: Clans obviously. Soulscar, Shadowbrand, and the like. Boosts may result in additional resources, units, or maybe skills?
Sylvan: I'm not sure about this one, but the options could be Families, or Elven Subraces. definately should have one town that gives Wood, and/or additional units. Enlightement, Logistics and Luck skills at the start (all three are taken by default anyhow) or Experience are also fitting imo.
Academy: Different kinds of Wizards: Alchemist, who can give additional mercury, Sages who excell in Knowledge, Fakirs that give you the Enlightement skill (or raise it, if you have it already)
Fortress: Like Dungeon, clans. Could grant Runes at the start, in additional to units, rescources, etc
Stronghold: Tribes, like Alc said: May result in Artifacts, units, and Stats (maybe skills, one tribe that gives you a free (random) shatter Skill by default, for instance)
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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lucky_dwarf
Promising
Supreme Hero
Visiting
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posted August 02, 2009 11:58 PM |
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i like the idea, very creative!
Maybe a sub faction can have better movement for theyre heroes(it would be quite good for the elves, seing as though they know the forests ins and outs)
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So much has changed in my absence.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted August 03, 2009 12:08 AM |
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I'm afraid that would be the kind of starting bonus pretty much everyone would take unless it's a small map.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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lucky_dwarf
Promising
Supreme Hero
Visiting
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posted August 03, 2009 12:11 AM |
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how about resistance to magic? 20% resistance the whole game
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So much has changed in my absence.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted August 03, 2009 12:12 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 00:18, 03 Aug 2009.
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Cool ideas, I like it.
Another cool addition would be to be able to create your own subfaction from scratch. It would also give the modders some freedom.
Like a menu like this or something:
1. Select Faction
2. Select -----* Name
3. Select Insignia**
4. Select Bonus***
5. Write Background****
*the name here depends on what faction you choose, like if you choose dungeon it will be Clan.
**Here you would be able to choose an insignia for your subfaction or import your own pic, like a custom banner.
***To avoid imbalance, you should only get to choose from already existing bonuses here. Other bonuses could be added by modding.
****Optional stage, here is where you can write some lore for your subfaction. For roleplaying freaks like me.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 03, 2009 10:21 AM |
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Adrķus idea seems extremely cool to me, but homm never was fond of such things unfortunately...I mean there were plenty chances to implement somthing like this - I'd always had liked that for heroes, and artifacts too, f.e.
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xerdux
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted August 08, 2009 06:43 PM |
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Nice. An excellent way to expand the city system. I would love to see this.
Humans: Duchies
Demons: Legions
Necros: Cults
Dwarves: Clans
Wood Elves: Realms
Wizards: Circles
Dark Elves: Clans
Dwarves: Orders (Clans were taken)
Orcs: Tribes
Like Adrius idea, you would choose these stuff before you play.
Faction: Haven
Affliation: Griffin Duchy. Increases Griffin production in the whole Kingdom.
Hero: Irina
Background (Optional): Irina of the Griffin Duchy has formed a special bond to the Griffins and is now the caretaker of them in Talonguard. She has been sent to Heresh to save some remote hatching roosts from the rotten hands of the Necromancers.
Faction: Inferno
Affliation: Doomfire Legion. Increases the damage done by Fire spells and effetcs by a small amount.
Hero: Deleb
Background (Optional):[/] Deleb of the Doomfire Legion has served her Legion well with weapons of mass destruction. She has come to the Avleeran Vale to destroy the Wood Elves outer defenses.
Faction: Sylvan
Affliation: Evergreen Realm. While standing on grass terrain, all units regenrate a small amount of health each turn.
Hero: Dirael
Background (Optional):[/] Dirael of the Evergreen Realm has always been fond of Wasps. From her Realm, she brings revitalization to the harsh lands of Sheogh, followed by the fury of her Wasps.
Faction: Necropolis
Affliation: Death's Hand Clan. Raises a few additional units.
Hero: Deidre
Background (Optional):[/] Deidre of the Death's Hand Clan is one of the most known Necromancer. She has come to the Greyhound Duchy to hunt down any remains of the Greyhound line.
Faction: Academy
Affliation: Solmyran Circle. Increases the production of Djinns.
Hero: Galib
Background (Optional):[/] Galib of the Solymran has survived many wars and now he has to defend his deceased masters Circle.
Faction: Dungeon
Affliation: Bloodcrest Clan. 5% of damage done is converted back as health.
Hero: Lethos
Background (Optional):[/] Lethos of the Bloodcrest Clan has worked as an assassin for a long time. Now he needs to lead an army to attack the Wood Elves above.
Faction: Fortress
Affliation: Winterhowl Order. Each week, a pack of Wolfs will spawn in the highest developed town.
Hero: Brand
Background (Optional):[/] Brand of the Winterhowl Order is favored by Arkath. Now the Order has sent him to kill the mountains Orcs in the east.
Faction: Stronghold
Affliation: Cyclop's Grip Tribe. Increases Siege damage done.
Hero: Garuna
Background (Optional):[/] Garuna was once a powerful assassin of the Cyclop's Grip Tribe. She has been sent to Grimheim where she will lead an army.
Then you could save your setup or backstory and play online with them etc.
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Nirual
Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
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posted August 08, 2009 07:36 PM |
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These boni aren't supposed to be an extension of hero specialities.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.
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Jarlaxle
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 08, 2009 11:48 PM |
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Awesome idea  would work really well with a few factions I'm developing.
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