|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
posted August 30, 2009 09:10 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
But they should not receive other types of medical care for free when they are in the US illegally. I don't care what color a person is if he is illegally in a country he is not entitled to benefits from that country.
When a person is in a country illegally he should be deported. He is a lawbreaker..
That's how real christians speak 
Lawbreakers don't get any help. Interesting statement for someone who should live like the bible tells him.
If Jesus would hear how you talk, your way to heaven would be closed forever, that's for sure.
You're nothing else but an impostor. And no, this is NOT an insult, this is just the conclusion of the way you post
You seem to have trouble reading. I said that illegals should get life saving health care but not free health care for other kinds. There are illegally in the country and should be deported.
I object to your insults.
|
|
Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 03:40 AM |
|
Edited by Shyranis at 04:07, 31 Aug 2009.
|
Quote:
No, not 90%, either. And not more free-market than the US.
I was speaking more when it comes to businesses and regulations. Businesses are effectively entirely unregulated as long as they draw healthy profits into the Chinese economy. As long as they bring in large quantities of money to the country with little attention drawn, a corporation can do almost anything it wants (as long as it doesn't directly disagree with the government on political issues it can do whatever it wants financially).
I suppose it may be more corruption than anything, but lately a lot of false conservatives have been labelling "government interferance" like financial and extra safety regulations as being the opposite of free market and I suppose I have fallen for that hook line and sinker.
Nearly every business in China is privately owned, and they can do nearly whatever they want as long as it goes into the tax system. If China were suddenly to become a Democratic Republic and respect people's individual freedoms to speech and religion, it would be become nearly 90% free market. That won't happen though.
Back to the topic at hand. Government oversight is needed to keep greedy companies under control. That's the main part of what the health care reform currently happening is in the US. Providing further options for people and forcing companies to not gorge themselves on blood money people's futures. For example, United Health Group in a conflict of interest buying the two major databases and reducing the "usual" and "customary" costs, which is what they base their say, 80% coverage on, in order to intentionally short change their customers. Paying 80% of $95 for what would be a $150 procedure for example. They sold this data to the other major insurers as well promising a 16:1 return on investment for doing so. They were caught, but still are under investigation as they are still doing it and more money is sought as it [url=http://hubpages.com/hub/CROOK-ALERT--UNITED-HEALTH-CARE]wasn't considered adequate punishment[/url]. Later on, despite claiming to be "extremely neutral", encouraging its employees to lobby and attend tea parties on its behalf. Of course none of this stops them from making millions in federal subsidies for covering medicare patients.
They also own the oft-cited Lewin Group. Which says that it is neutral and also says that the choice of a publicly funded option would destroy the insurance industry (when it clearly doesn't in every other major western country).
Heck, if Elodin can link a crazy talking person to backup what he says, so can I. Crazy people keep things interesting by foaming at the mouth, even if they often lie sometimes you can pick up some truth from them.
Here's some more info about one of the [url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/32559705]health bill's biggest opponents[/url]. I don't even watch his crap, but it actually lines up with what I'm saying here for once. These TV pundits usually make me sick, throwing around words like Racist, Nazi, Fascist, Un-American, Socialist, etc.
I'm from Canada. We have 0.2% "less" economic freedom according to that website you linked, but we have a system even more government run than what is currently proposed for the United States, which had become 0.3% less free as of the end of 2008 over 2007.
Please note, I am a Conservative. I believe in freedom of speech and religion. I believe in the free market for non-essential services (I don't trust companies to save my life if it's not cost effective) and Community and helping others is one of the prime values of the country I live in and that is the core essence of out healthcare system. Say and believe what you want. I will defend to the death your right to say so.
Thanks to the people that actually take the time to read this whole thing ^_^
Just noticed this:
Elodin
Quote:
You seem to have trouble reading. I said that illegals should get life saving health care but not free health care for other kinds.
Sorry Elodin, you're being lied to. The new healthcare plan will not cover illegals. You're just misinformed. Factcheck has you covered. Even the Bush Administration used to quote Factcheck to clear up lies about them.
Factcheck.org
Quote:
The e-mail says that "non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services" but points to a provision that prohibits discrimination in health care based on "personal characteristics." Another provision explicity forbids "federal payment for undocumented aliens."
____________
Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 05:00 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Government oversight is needed to keep greedy companies under control.
No, that's not what government oversight is for. Regulation authority exists to ensure the safety of citizens, and to protect their rights, not to restrict how much money someone or some corporation is allowed to make.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 06:42 AM |
|
|
Well, I don't trust anything that derives its money from involuntary sources.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 07:00 AM |
|
|
You can look at such blunders as Oxycotin (spelling?) and realise that the FDA is far from perfect. In fact I doubt they check 25% of what they SHOULD, just because they are underfunded and there are SOOO many products being released.
((Come on..drug trials are supposed to last years and NOBODY had addiction problems during that WHOLE time with OXY??? Sorry, don't buy that))
Government agencies can be quite good, but they are full of humans. Which can only do so much, and worse can be bribed. Of course since we don't want a Terminator scenario on our hands..it is the best we have  .
____________
Message received.
|
|
Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 07:53 AM |
|
|
Years seems like a long time for drug trials, but maybe if you include all the testing. Human trials shouldn't normally take that long.
One thing to consider about drugs is that ALL drugs have side effects. Designing a drug to specifically target one system in the body without affecting anything else is just about impossible. Maybe it's a stupid analogy, but imagine you are in a large crowd of people and you want to communicate with a person on the other side of the crowd, but you can't let anyone else hear or see you doing it. When a drug enters the bloodstream it is much the same.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 09:56 AM |
|
|
No drug regulatory agency will ever be perfect. And studies often come up with conflicting data. A drug may have a bizzare effect on one person that it does not have on another one. Any drugh you take has a certain risk associated with it.
It should be easier for terminally ill patients to get their hands on experimental drugs to take at their own risk.
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 10:19 AM |
|
|
Quote:
You seem to have trouble reading. I said that illegals should get life saving health care but not free health care for other kinds. There are illegally in the country and should be deported.
I object to your insults.
I don't have trouble in reading. But i don't think in the Bible is written, only life saving health is given to those who are law breakers, is it? At that time, when Jesus made endless fish and bred out of a few of those things, I don't think he asked everyone around if he/she is a law breaker. He just gave it to those who needed.
And I really wish you could live in a country like Mexico or Haiti for a while and see what circumstances the people have there. Of course everybody is doing the best he can to make his life a better one. Same as the american settlers did around 200 years ago with the native people living in the terrain we today call USA. They just took it away from them
And wasn't the planet earth given to ALL people by God? Where is it written people are allowed to draw lines on maps and claim "This is ours, this is yours!"
You should LIVE like a christian, and not only quote Bible phrases to convince others from your "I live the way Jesus told us".
I stay with my opinion: You're an imposter!
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 10:31 AM |
|
|
sorry for OT,but my question to you elodin in the bible thread reminded unnoticed.
____________
types in obscure english
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 11:10 AM |
|
Edited by Elodin at 11:15, 31 Aug 2009.
|
Quote:
And I really wish you could live in a country like Mexico or Haiti for a while and see what circumstances the people have there. Of course everybody is doing the best he can to make his life a better one. Same as the american settlers did around 200 years ago with the native people living in the terrain we today call USA. They just took it away from them
And wasn't the planet earth given to ALL people by God? Where is it written people are allowed to draw lines on maps and claim "This is ours, this is yours!"
You should LIVE like a christian, and not only quote Bible phrases to convince others from your "I live the way Jesus told us".
I stay with my opinion: You're an imposter!
Friend, I have seen the depths of poverty.
The US can't take care fo the health care needs of everyone on the planet. Illegal aliens should be deported and seek health care in their own country.
Continue to insult me as you will, there is nothing I can do about it.
@ Antipaladin
"Leviticus 20." is not a question. So clarify your question in the Bible thread because all you typed was "Leviticus 20"
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 03:43 PM |
|
|
@Bin
Quote:
Designing a drug to specifically target one system in the body without affecting anything else is just about impossible.
That's the way it used to be, but not with advances in nanomedicine. With targeted nanomaterial-based drugs, the chance of systematic side-effects can be greatly reduced. In theory.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 03:48 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Government oversight is needed to keep greedy companies under control.
No, that's not what government oversight is for. Regulation authority exists to ensure the safety of citizens, and to protect their rights, not to restrict how much money someone or some corporation is allowed to make.
I'm sorry, I wasn't clear enough. Keeping greedy companies under control means keeping consumers safe. That means not allowing them to actually fleece customers and drive them to bankruptcy and to protect them from using materials and drugs proven unsafe.
So yes, it seems we actually agree in this point.
____________
Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 04:00 PM |
|
|
Might I ask, Shyranis - why adjectivize "companies" with the word "greedy"? Hmmm, let me rephrase the question. What is the difference between a "greedy company" and a "company that is not greedy"? I mean, if the sole purpose of a company or business venture is to turn a profit, then aren't all companies greedy, by definition?
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 04:10 PM |
|
Edited by Shyranis at 16:16, 31 Aug 2009.
|
Quote:
Might I ask, Shyranis - why adjectivize "companies" with the word "greedy"? Hmmm, let me rephrase the question. What is the difference between a "greedy company" and a "company that is not greedy"? I mean, if the sole purpose of a company or business venture is to turn a profit, then aren't all companies greedy, by definition?
I mean to say excessively greedy.
There are companies that maintain profitibility while still maintaining an eye out for their customers, meanwhile there are others that would prefer to do them harm for greater profits. I object to the latter, when they could be the former and still make lots of money.
edit: I suppose the problem is that I wasn't specific enough. I apologize for the misconception. I approve of most companies because they do not inherently try to make people suffer for greater profits. Rather, they compete to make people come back via satisfactory service and competitive rates.
____________
Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 06:11 PM |
|
Edited by TheDeath at 18:12, 31 Aug 2009.
|
Quote:
Might I ask, Shyranis - why adjectivize "companies" with the word "greedy"? Hmmm, let me rephrase the question. What is the difference between a "greedy company" and a "company that is not greedy"? I mean, if the sole purpose of a company or business venture is to turn a profit, then aren't all companies greedy, by definition?
No it means how far one wants to go. 
You want profit, at what expense? What consequence? That is the question.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 11:00 PM |
|
|
A company kind of has to make a profit to stay in business. Unlike the federal government, they can't print money.
If a company raises its prices too high the free market will take care of the situation. Someone else will offer the product at a better price and take some of their business.
A smart company will put an emphasis on customer service. Most consumers are willing to overlook mistakes if they know you will do your best to quickly correct any mistake. That is why "the customer is always right." A company wants to keep its customers and attract new ones. Word of mouth is the best advertising. Happy customers will attract more customers.
____________
Revelation
|
|
Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
|
|
posted August 31, 2009 11:51 PM |
|
|
Maybe at one time. Unfortunately now, the 'monopoly' rule has been thrown out the window. Companies can get so large that nobody else can compete. The charge what they want, pay what they want to their employees (who have nowhere else to go). When a competitor surfaces, they lower their prices to where the smaller competitor goes out of business quickly, then resume charging whatever they want. Also they have no qualms about buying substandard things to sell for peanuts. *Shrugs*
____________
Message received.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted September 01, 2009 01:29 AM |
|
|
Quote:
If a company raises its prices too high the free market will take care of the situation. Someone else will offer the product at a better price and take some of their business.
You talk as if that's guaranteed in any way, which it is far from it.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted September 01, 2009 03:13 AM |
|
|
Quote:
A company kind of has to make a profit to stay in business. Unlike the federal government, they can't print money.
Doesn't give a company the right to deliberately hurt a portion of its customers.
Mytical also brought up a good point with the whole monopoly thing. Notice how nearly every single TV station is owned by the same 4 big companies? You don't think they're going to use those squawk boxes to hawk their wares instead of actually informing the public? I mean, come on. Most of the American news I see is either superficial garbage or self aggrandizing fluff. Corporate media doesn't even do proper fact checking, and as such also makes it harder for independents like myself and many others to do so. We're not sheep or robots, why treat us like so?
There is no competition for mega corporations. Little companies in the same industry just get squashed.
____________
Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
|
|
Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 01, 2009 03:25 AM |
|
|
Quote:
There is no competition for mega corporations. Little companies in the same industry just get squashed
Is that why almost all economic growth is by small companies? Just curious.
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
