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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Heroes 6: VokialBG’s edition
Thread: Heroes 6: VokialBG’s edition

Legendary Hero
First in line
posted August 21, 2009 07:39 PM

Heroes 6: VokialBG’s edition

I decided to start my own Altar project about my vision for successful HoMM game. The true is that everythink here will be a bit in chaotic order, since I never classified the project info. Most likely this is going to be “basic theory of my dream Heroes 6”, I’ll still consider for posting creatures or ability ideas, still I may do it.

There will be balance problems in most of the ideas, I was never good in balancing, but don't blame me please, just look at the ideas, the others are numbers only and can be changed.

I don't know if I'll ever finish this, but here is the first part:


So what’s "Heroes 6: VokialBG’s edition"? My Heroes 6 ideas will change some aspects of the game radical, but also keep some. This game version will add more RPG elements and difference between the races and their towns. It will make the game a bit more complex, but much more interesting, also a game in HoMM6 will take much longer. There will even be a bit of RTS elements. On some points my idea have nothing to do with H5 so don’t compare them.

Part 1 – The map

The first and most basic change here is the map. The map will now give more possibility for the player to rise his economy and for first time – an empire!

I’ll try to explain all of it, it’s going to be a bit hard. Here is what I mean:

The map is now divide into territories. There are few types of them:

State territory – a territory of the players (of CPU’s)
Neutral – CPU, but neutral, towns, belong to no one, there is always a neutral town on this area
Wild – neutral, but without town, only wild creatures and nature

Lets say that this is an ex for H6 map:

Red, orange, blue and yellow are the states (4 players – for colours)
Purple – Neutral kingdoms
Green – Wild, nomans land

So basically in H6 (VBG’s edition) everyone have it’s own kingdom. He start with small piece of land, and a town. A player can conquer other pieces of land during the game progress (as you see the whole map is in pieces), this happens when he capture a special point in the area, there can’t be more than one in it. If there is town in the piece, so that the point, to conquer the whole province you need to capture it only, if you lose that point during the game progress, you lose the province as well.

In the wild territories you need to size all mines and kill any defenders you see.

So what happens when you get new territory? Your state is getting bigger, and this will grand you some priority against your enemy and in plus for your economy and war industry.

First if you capture neutral territory (with a town), you are turning it into colony, you may remember my mini towns idea (was it 3 years ago?) the colony is something similar. The colony is the captured neutral town, it produce few units only – 3 types from different levels (the first one may be level 2, while the next one 4 and the last one 7), you can use them for your army, the colony also produce resources (you select what you want for few types, or one only, depends on the map creator’s work) and pay taxes. Basically they are like slaves or vassals.  They work for you, they pay you, they fight for you. The colony is obligated and will always help you with warriors it let’s say the enemy is sieging one of your towns (this is for later, when we speak for the main town and the new town levels). But as I say they are your vassals, and they only wait to get their independence! The colony can start a revolt. Depending on the happiness level. The happiness level is in percentage rate, and it will take higher or lower depending on your actions.

1.1 How it turns to a colony

When you capture the town you’ll have to wait few days until the colony town is ready to work (after all the war there just passed), during this time you can’t take any action, except fulling the garrisons with soldiers (but only from other towns, you can’t buy colony units), after the time is over, you are ready to do whatever you want.

1.2 Happiness

So the happiness system is easy, it’s individual for every colony, it start with – 5, when you capture the colony (and after you wait the few days). This mean that there is 5% chance that the colony will try to liberate by revolt. The happiness system work the same way for captured enemy town, but in this case the revolt will try to liberate and get back to it’s own homeland.

1.3 Taxes

So as you got it, there are payment taxes for the colony. It depends on the colony development and the gold you spend to improve it, also on the new town leveling system (will talk about it later). So let’s say that the base payment for one of you colonies is 2000 gold per day. There is an option for you to make it bigger if you need gold. There are four stages of taxes you can activate:

– Normal, the basic one with 0 increase.
– Mid, you increase the taxes a bit, like 10-20% (2000 + 400), but will decrease the happiness by 2.
– High, the increase is around 30-40% (2000 + 800), takes 4 happiness away.
– War tax, its special type of tax, you can take it only once in a month and it’s the normal tax x 3 (2000 + 2000 + 2000), its helpful to use it when the enemy is near, and you’ll need it to hire army. Lower the happiness with 10 (you won’t really care for the colony, is there is enemy at the gate, still it’s a bit extreme).

1.4 Resources production and workers

The colony produce one type of resource for you, depending on the map you may (or may not) choose between 2 or more types so you basically has a mine there. Depending on the town hall’s development the production is going to increase, also the player is able to lower the unit population (the colony unit’s only) and transform it to worker population.  The workers will work in the mines for more and more production. However if you overdo it, you’ll lower the happiness. Converting to workers cost gold, not all creatures can be converted.

Since the resources are produced in a colony and not near your capitol, you’ll have to wait for day or two to use them, since they have to come to your capitol or nearest town with caravan.

1.5 Unit production

The population is small, also depending on the colony type and development. Every colony has it’s own population you can hire it or convert it to workers, The colony garrison can be transported to your capitol with caravans. During a siege you can all units from the colony to help you (this mean that you can have more then 7 units on the battlefield, which is bigger than the H5 one) , also you can use them for reinforcements during huge campaign.

1.6 Colony spells, abilities, arties, enchants

Some spells can be used only if you visit the colony magic guild, usually they offer only few spells, and 1-2 unique for the game, so you’re here will be able to use them if he capture it. Same counts for the might hero’s war abilities and combos.

Some of the colonies can offer you special crafting building, and sell artifacts or enchants (you’ll have to wait until I post for this new game feature, basically they upgrade your items with stats and abilities).

1.7 Governors

For every colony (as well as every town in the game), there is option to set a governor. First you need to hire a noble at the tavern (also every player start with one, he choose it’s class in the starting menu, or use the random option). The governor is not a hero, he can’t move from town to town on a horse, he can’t carry army or items, he doesn’t have spells. So what does he do? First as I said you hire it, second you transport him to the colony (or town) with caravan, he will arrive there in few days and start governing the city. Depending on his class the colony/town is going to get a bonus. There are few classes I was thinking for:

– Architect, reduce the buildings cost.
– Financier, increase the gold income.
– Industrialist, increase the resources production.
– Militarist, increase the army population.

Outside this small specialization they have own skill tree, and abilities (all passive) called characterizations. They may be beloved by the people and increase the happiness with “Charisma” characterization, increase the units morale during siege, get a bonus against revolts (they don’t take part in the battle so they just stay and watch, they may help only with the passive abilities) and etc.

During revolt part of the garrison will stay loyal to the governor!

How they take levels? You invest in him and his education with gold. There is a chance that you’ll get free level for him, if he do something great, like crushing a revolt. I think that max of 10 levels is okay, every next level is more expensive to buy, also you can’t do it a roll, there must be some kind of cooldown.

Outside the standard governor skills (available to all) and abilities (like “Charisma”  – increase happiness - or “Merciless” – increase chance to crush a revolt – characterizations)  there is still one special class line of characterizations, let’s say that the Architect may also increase the city towers attack, or that the Industrialist is able to find new still covered mine, and grand you the chance to produce one more resource type.

One more think and we are over with the governors, unlike the heroes, they have salary, so you’ll have to pay them weekly, stronger governor will need more money if you wish to have him, if you lose him, he may be hired by the enemy from the tavern (if you’re not fast enough to take him back and give him the money he wants), if the enemy takes him, he will not only use him as it’s own but also get a bonus if attack the town/colony the hired governor ruled on your side.

A governor ALWAYS reduce the revolt chance!

Example for Architect skill tree:

The "SP" line is the line of all specific Architect abilities (+the spec one), the "ST" lines are the standart abilities for all governor classes.

I'm starting with the standart characterizations (right to left).

Merciless - Increase defence and damage against rebels by "X" %
Upgraded Merciless - Increase defence and damage against rebels by "X + Z" %

Social Theory - One God in heaven, one King on the earth, thats what the Social Theory says. More troops will keep being loyal to the governor in time of revolt.
Upgaded Social Theory - Even more troops will keep being loyal to the governor in time of revolt.

Charisma - Beloved by the people, their leader, their champion and patron. As long as they governor rule the town it's folk will feel much more save and happy. Happyness is increased by "X"
Upgaded Charisma - Happyness is increased by "X + Z"

Special Architect abilities:

Building engineering specialization - Due to his new knowledges, the Architect can strengthen castles hardness. Increase HP and defence of the city walls.

Watch Tower plans - The Architect is better in watch tower planning. Increase the damage done by all towers during siege as well as their HP.

Housing construction - Better housing construction system was developed by your Architect, this increase the population of units by "X" (work for few tiers, the increase depends on the tier).

Productiveness (ref: need better name here) - Build fourth tower in your city.

1.8 Diplomats

There is way to have an neutral town as ally, via diplomacy. You have to hire diplomats (tavern) and send them on mission with caravan. They are able to sign contracts for war help, for resource exchange and etc. If your diplomatic skills are good enough, you may annex the neutrals without war. Diplomats doesn’t have levels, the way to improve your diplomacy is via the hero skill and your title.

1.8.1 Contracts

If you can’t capture an enemy town, you can sign a contract with it. The effectiveness and the chance that you’ll sign your contract (and in your advantage) depends on your skills (as you read in 1.8).

If you tried to capture a neutral town by force, before signing a contract, the chance that the next diplomatic mission will the successful is pretty low.

With contract you’ll have the right to trade resources with the neutral CPU, you’ll have to pay. Also you can hire mercenaries from time to time.

So if you send a diplomat in enemy town with your caravan, there are (basically) three possible ways for finish of your mission:

– First one, they don’t agree, they diplomat will return (or be killed).
– Second one, they agree, but only for small present (will some cash, or creatures, or they will give you quest to find an artifact of defeat someone
– Third, they like your offer and agree.

1.9 Wild terriories

Wild terriories are neutral lands without town of them, so after they are captured (by flaging everything there or a special point on them) they can't revolt, but they still can be taken by other player (if he reflag the locations). Wild terriotories belong to no nations. If a player capture one, it's increasing the cold income of his nearest town, also if there is a wind mill  you can send caraven every week to take the resources (on a cost of small amount of that resource, basically work like neutral town with contract)

1.10 Titles

With the growing of you state you are claiming new titles that gives you bonuses and abilities.

Duke and duchy – the lowest title, you have it when you have only 1 piece of the map and your starting town. You can’t lose this title since it’s the lowest. It grands you only the right to rule your people, nothing more.
Prince and principality – second title, you claim it when you have two more provinces. Due to your higher title the foreign rules respect you more and this increase the chance for successful diplomatic missions by your diplomats by 5%.
King and kingdom – third title for four provinces and also capitol level requirement. Increase the diplomatic by 10%, also grands better effectiveness for the contracts. The morale of your army is higher by 1 (for necro it lower the enemy morale by 1).
Emperor and empire – fourth title, six provinces, full built capitol (not literary, you don’t need the harbour) and least two of the provinces have to be colonies of captured enemy towns. Increase the diplomatic by 20%, the contracts effectiveness, the morale by 2 (-2 for the necro’s enemy) and increase the initiative of all your creatures slightly (in percentage).

During special game type there is fifth title – “Caesar”, there may be only one Caesar, and the one who be the first win the game. We’ll talk about game types and victory goals later and in another post.

There may be different titles for the different races, if the already mentioned are for Haven… and let’s say Fortress, Sylvan and Necro, some may get other titles (with the same bonus) like the Stronghold player (orcs) , can get “Clan leader”, “Chieftain”, “Khan”, “Khagan” (the last one means Khan of the Khans, the greatest one, basically an emperor).

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Known Hero
posted August 26, 2009 06:56 PM

Well, thanks a lot for elaborating my own idea for HoMM6 buddy!

I did not mean that, it should be, that complex, though. But, close enough.

Are you planning to include the Training/Education Institution building that allows Heroes to learn and train for better Attack and Defense primary skills + learning how to better read and comprehend spells while improving their knowledge(mana pool)and spells increase in effectiveness(spell power)?

You should not take for consideration the RPG thing should ever be in the Adventure Map's view of the town, its content and natural surroundings. RPG will be the newest form of battlefield interation(you start giving orders to each unit until done then execute + a special voice command such as the "regroup to Hero" for giving new orders to them if needed so).

RTS should be for the entire universe of the map currently played(Population's freedom to do at it pleases to do so, as you order the contructs to be done and, telling your Hero where to go onto the Adventure Map).

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Adventuring Hero
bringer of nostalgia & darknes
posted August 26, 2009 08:39 PM

go play your civilization games

the difference between civilizations and HOMM is:
HOMM is based on the assumption that enough food can be harvested, that everybody makes a great leader and that the population will pay their taxes. In HOMM you are not supposed to be micromanaging the economy but rather the battlefield

The exact opposit counts for civilization games, where the player is supposed to manage all aspects of the economy but not making tactics for the battlefield. You are only supposed to produce military and move armies around

though I love civilization games I would not like to see HOMM become a part of it. Though both ketchup and peanut butter taste good they shouldn't be mixed.

if you are longing after a fantasy-themed civilization game, stardock is actually making one right now: www.elementalgame.com

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