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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Why many ppl dont like Heroes 4?
Thread: Why many ppl dont like Heroes 4? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
Ignis
Ignis


Hired Hero
posted September 19, 2009 01:29 PM

Why many ppl dont like Heroes 4?

All my friends that played 3 and 5 hate 4 , i love it , its awsome , the units,the music , its so weird ,it is different that the 2 other but ,its a great game
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shyranis
shyranis


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 19, 2009 03:56 PM
Edited by shyranis at 15:58, 19 Sep 2009.

It is a good game with great music, but it's play style is so radically different, and unpolished. People were expecting something as polished or complete as Heroes 3, instead they did get a nice story and great music but everything else was fairly unfinished. The movement in the map and combat feels sluggish, the units look worse than Heroes 3 ones, the expansions were quick cash grabs without much of a story if any unlike the ones from heroes 3 that blew people away.

I like the game, but it's just the worst of them. Still, being the worst Heroes game is not a terrible thing. I find it funny that the worst Heroes and worst Civilization were products of 2001-2002 =D
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Invictus
Invictus


Adventuring Hero
posted September 19, 2009 05:50 PM
Edited by Invictus at 17:52, 19 Sep 2009.

Having played H4 just recently (in the last 2 months), I'd consider it to be a mediocre game at best. Previously, I'd played KB, H1, H2, and H3, but the last time I'd touched a heroes game was back in 2000 or something, so I only judge it from a standard of a typical game.

From a single player perspective, the main problems are:

1) The AI can't handle the added complexity of hero-to-hero combat. Since heroes are the main part of combat, what you have is a dumb AI, with the main challenge being the massive neutral armies when played at a higher difficulty level, or sheer number of AI players. For a game that's primarily single player, you need a great AI.
2) Heroes are unbalanced - they're either too overpowered or underpowered. When underpowered, they're useless. When overpowered, they slaughter armies en mass. At the last map, my Tawni could kill 8 black dragons with a single melee hit (there goes 2 months supply of black dragons in a single combat action!). When overpowered (with GM combat skills) it's not even necessary to have creatures. You'd just have heroes soloing everything, and only bring in creatures for the final battle of the campaign.
3) The game is repetitive in general, and the quick combat option isn't that great unless your hero is pure might and has a limited number spells. Also, everything is slow, from combat, to adventure map movement, to hunting down excessive AI heroes roaming the map.  

Having never played MP, I can't really judge on that. Having never played TBS on multiplayer, I don't think I'd like it, though. Personally, I would've liked something like multiplayer in the total war series in which you can play solely the tactical combat portion in multiplayer, in which you'd buy troops directly and fight it out on the battlefield.

As for game design, I read that people were complaining how the upgrade system was gone. Personally, I like it better with no upgrade system, because the upgrade is pointless when unupgraded units are no good. I though the new 5-alignments system that merges magic schools and the towns was creative to some degree.

As for the expansion packs, yeah I'd agree that they weren't well done. Big drop from the original campaigns in terms of story writing.
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Carcity
Carcity


Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
posted September 20, 2009 01:09 PM

am I the only guy here who think heroes 4 is better than heroes 3? I think heroes 4 is a great game, I did never like heroes 3, heroes 5 was ok and had good graphics and storyline. but I found it to hard (I never finished the campagins on the original or any of the expansions) and heroes 3 is way to hard for me, but heroes 4 is a really good game and I like the combat system alot. although it could use a better AI, since end-game get's way to easy.
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TheUnknown
TheUnknown


Known Hero
posted September 20, 2009 06:42 PM

Invictus, you are new to the game, try some MP games and use no campaign examples to say why there is balance or not.
You say
"Heroes are unbalanced - they're either too overpowered or underpowered. When underpowered, they're useless. When overpowered, they slaughter armies en mass. At the last map, my Tawni could kill 8 black dragons with a single melee hit (there goes 2 months supply of black dragons in a single combat action!). When overpowered (with GM combat skills) it's not even necessary to have creatures. You'd just have heroes soloing everything, and only bring in creatures for the final battle of the campaign."
I say
Every skill and hero has it's use, to make those ultra strong heroes you need a hell of a EXP, there are even new mods that enable faster leveling because it requires too much time and resources to develop such heroes. Remember that some heroes are good on map and don't need to go into combat unless you need to level them up. On the chaos campaign Tawny walks trough many chaos towns and gains +3 attack from every town.

On the other hand I do agree that the AI has some problems but it still offers a good game, on some maps a great game.

Many people don't count the wins the AI gets because of the great autosave feature (yes i know sometimes it only saves time but sometimes a simple load saves a whole game).

Also I would add that the game is only slow if you wait for AI on slower PC or have set in options for armies in combat and map to move on extra slow, if you have a decent PC (Pentium IV) the only problem with speed is you. Have you ever played chess ? This game is TBS like chess and they have the same speed, the better the player usually means the faster the game.

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smvuy
smvuy


Known Hero
posted September 20, 2009 07:35 PM

crappy 3d models, colors that burns your eyes and unupgradable units. I said it

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pei
pei


Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
posted September 20, 2009 07:54 PM

And some spells were really bad and ive always hated that Lysander guy.

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SmallButDeadly
SmallButDeadly


Hired Hero
Precision addict
posted September 20, 2009 08:49 PM

Invictus, that's NOTHING.
My level 50 could solo 6 MEGADRAGONS with only one potion of Immortality. That should never happen, even with level 70's...

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pei
pei


Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
posted September 20, 2009 09:22 PM

Quote:
am I the only guy here who think heroes 4 is better than heroes 3? I think heroes 4 is a great game, I did never like heroes 3, heroes 5 was ok and had good graphics and storyline. but I found it to hard (I never finished the campagins on the original or any of the expansions) and heroes 3 is way to hard for me, but heroes 4 is a really good game and I like the combat system alot. although it could use a better AI, since end-game get's way to easy.


Yes,city you are and thats good. If everyone were to think and like the same snow the world wouldnt be an interesting place. But H4 better than H3?? Come on!!

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Invictus
Invictus


Adventuring Hero
posted September 20, 2009 09:46 PM
Edited by Invictus at 21:49, 20 Sep 2009.

Quote:
My level 50 could solo 6 MEGADRAGONS with only one potion of Immortality.

You don't need a lvl 50 to do that. Just get any lvl 25 with spells like hypnotize and you've dead megadragons all over.

A hero with GM death magic at around lvl 30 can kill 10 megadragons in a single spell move.
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SmallButDeadly
SmallButDeadly


Hired Hero
Precision addict
posted September 21, 2009 07:47 AM

Quote:
Quote:
My level 50 could solo 6 MEGADRAGONS with only one potion of Immortality.

You don't need a lvl 50 to do that. Just get any lvl 25 with spells like hypnotize and you've dead megadragons all over.

A hero with GM death magic at around lvl 30 can kill 10 megadragons in a single spell move.


That should just... No. O_O

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted September 21, 2009 12:04 PM
Edited by Lexxan at 12:05, 21 Sep 2009.

Quote:
heroes 5 was ok and had [a] good (...)storyline.


Lol what?

Anyway, personally, I enjoyed H4 quite much to be honest. The problem however - and that is the true reason why so manyt heroes players hate it - It's NOT a Heroes Game. It's so different from the others. It doesn't fit in the series, though with the creation of H5, it fits in more (I find H5 to be a synergy of H3 and H4, when it comes to gameplay)

H4 on it's own was good as a game, but I didn't find it addictive, like H5, Civ, Pharaoh, Baldur's Gate. That is imo (as well as the completely ridiculous balance... or rather lack of) the main weakness of the game.
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TheUnknown
TheUnknown


Known Hero
posted September 21, 2009 04:11 PM

"Yes,city you are and thats good. If everyone were to think and like the same snow the world wouldnt be an interesting place. But H4 better than H3?? Come on!!"
H-IV is better than H-III for me too. It is a lot more balanced the way I see it. Some things like simultaneous retaliations and creatures of same level that have same cost is very good, meaning all towns have generally the same power in certain level creatures.

When has it happened in H-III for both creatures to die ? Even if they are the same, for example if you are the attacker you surely win cos of first turn but in H-IV attacker defender makes a lot less difference. 10 angels vs 10 angels in H-IV usually kill themselves both. Even battles like titans vs black dragons end up in both being dead. Which means you should find a good strategy on the battleground or map not in what town you chose in the beginning like in H-III. But that game has legendary style, I also love it, but it just doesn't seem fair in certain situations.

Btw why do you guys go on for heroes killing 5 megadragons bla bla bla, why don't you say how much low level creatures they can kill, there is a great balance in the game, low cratures are very good cannon fodder for heroes as heroes cannot decrease their attack/defense value very much, and spells do less damage to lover level creatures if you compare the price lost with them and high level creatures. The low level creatures may not be able to kill those heroes but they can buy a lot of time. Have you ever tried sending armies of 7 imps to enemy mage heroes forcing them to go to base or some well for refill on mana. Many many sweet strategies.

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Carcity
Carcity


Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
posted September 21, 2009 06:25 PM

yeah, one of you might kill 5 megadragons and the sixth one have 1 hp left and the other one have 500 hp left, get endless armies of peasents and use your strategies on them instead.

@The unknown, I usually tend to have two armies, one with one mid-level hero (although this strategy works best on campaigns) and many many creatures, and an army with many mid/high level heroes. the one with the heroes goes a little ahead, picking up all artifacts and such, and the army one goes right behind, and if one would come to a castle or garrision (mostly in garrisions cause AI tend to put 3/4 of their army in one garrision on the later campaigns) if the heroes army can't defeat them (I usually try first but saves just before the attack) I send in the army army to weaken their defenses, although on the emilia campaign I slaughtered the whole enemy using all heroes from earlier campaigns and no army at all.
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Invictus
Invictus


Adventuring Hero
posted September 21, 2009 11:21 PM
Edited by Invictus at 23:24, 21 Sep 2009.

Quote:
Invictus, you are new to the game, try some MP games and use no campaign examples to say why there is balance or not.

Right, as I mentioned, I haven't had a chance to look into MP, so I wouldn't be qualified to judge it from that perspective. In other games (non Heroes), I've played MP quite intensely with cult-like admiration, so I can get a sense of where you're coming from. However, there's usually a difference between hardcore MP fans and common casual fans. I would still wager that for casual fans (and that includes players who aren't necessarily big HOMM fans in general), H4 is mediocre.

However, one thing I disagree regarding criticism are the graphics. I think the graphics are great, and I see nothing wrong with them, other than the outdated interface style.
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Ignis
Ignis


Hired Hero
posted September 23, 2009 06:15 PM

i didnt know that heroes 4 was like unpolished  ,anyway i still like it
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Shyranis
Shyranis


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 23, 2009 06:56 PM

As I mentioned before, Homm 4 is the worst, but that doesn't make it a bad game =D
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ohforfsake
ohforfsake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted September 23, 2009 09:52 PM

I think they're not comparable really, for me the games are simply too different.

None of them are the "most fun" either, because that depends on your mood, which may swing a lot until the time where you actually start playing.

I like Heroes 3 for what it is, and it's great fun when I want to play it, the way I want to play it.

I likewise like Heroes 4 what it is, and it's likewise great fun when I want to playt it, the way I want to play it.

No the real question is, why doesn't the entire world agree upon that Heroes 2 is the best game ever, and everyone should be its snow?

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gnollking
gnollking


Supreme Hero
Supreme Hero
posted September 27, 2009 08:49 PM
Edited by gnollking at 20:52, 27 Sep 2009.

Dunno why i hate it.. it's propably one of those things that i cannot understand. For example, I hate Sweden and everything about it, just like every single other real Finnish, but i don't know why..

I mean, i hate heroes 4 the same way every real finnish hates sweden..

@EDIT, I think i know why i hate it now! It's because heroes 4 doesn't have GNOLLS .
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seto
seto

Tavern Dweller
posted October 02, 2009 02:33 PM

For me hmm4 is the best game.
I have played II,I and III, all are great, but IV is the best!
Maybe V is better, but I still didn't try it. I am playing WoW campaigns now and I like them very much. It's true that AI is stupid but mostly I like that, especially if i play on expert or impossible difficulty.
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