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baklava
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posted February 16, 2010 03:45 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 16:00, 16 Feb 2010.
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@JJ
So basically you think it'd be a good idea to return Germany to the state it was in before Bismarck?
I'm not sure it's quite that simple, and I don't think that small countries should get split into even smaller ones simply so that superpowers can control them more easily - because let's face it, nothing in the world would make, for example, the USA to split into provinces of that size. I'm also skeptical as to whether that would really make anything more efficient, or just add more paperwork.
Also there's a problem tied to certain groups of people which could and would turn those tiny republics into tiny emirates, one by one.
Europe is, in my opinion, not only not ready to turn away from the national and ethnical administration system, but recently tends toward it more and more (see Switzerland banning minarets).
Ideas you EU guys have, from forcing all cucumbers to be equal sized to banning the words "madame" and "madmoiselle" as they're discriminatory towards the female gender, generally tend to be silly, pointless and Monty-Python-like, and this "nations are outdated" attitude is no exception - at least in this age we're living in. And certainly, a lot of people are all for decentralization and everyone's right to self-determination everywhere except in their own backyards.
I was never a great fan of the system as it is now, but we're just not ready to get over this stage yet.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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watcher83
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Child of Malassa
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posted February 16, 2010 03:58 PM |
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If we were to speak one language as someone suggested earlier, what would it be, how can you decide, even the UE can't claim that has only one official language.
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Disturbed-Gnu
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posted February 19, 2010 03:31 PM |
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Just carpet bomb the damn country!
Nobody can repair theire problems, not even them selves!
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JollyJoker
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 19, 2010 05:08 PM |
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Quote:
@JJ
So basically you think it'd be a good idea to return Germany to the state it was in before Bismarck?
I'm not sure it's quite that simple, and I don't think that small countries should get split into even smaller ones simply so that superpowers can control them more easily - because let's face it, nothing in the world would make, for example, the USA to split into provinces of that size. I'm also skeptical as to whether that would really make anything more efficient, or just add more paperwork.
Also there's a problem tied to certain groups of people which could and would turn those tiny republics into tiny emirates, one by one.
Europe is, in my opinion, not only not ready to turn away from the national and ethnical administration system, but recently tends toward it more and more (see Switzerland banning minarets).
Ideas you EU guys have, from forcing all cucumbers to be equal sized to banning the words "madame" and "madmoiselle" as they're discriminatory towards the female gender, generally tend to be silly, pointless and Monty-Python-like, and this "nations are outdated" attitude is no exception - at least in this age we're living in. And certainly, a lot of people are all for decentralization and everyone's right to self-determination everywhere except in their own backyards.
I was never a great fan of the system as it is now, but we're just not ready to get over this stage yet.
Basically I say that we should aim to get the United States of Europe, but the member states should not be the national states the way they are now. It's just my personal opinion, and the main problem of the EU is that the member states are unwilling to hand over important functions to the EU parliament.
I think, though, that this is off-topic.
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mvassilev
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posted February 19, 2010 08:13 PM |
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The EU should cease all political functions and return to being a free trade area.
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Darkshadow
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Cerise Princess
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posted February 19, 2010 08:25 PM |
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Quote:
The EU should cease all political functions and return to being a free trade area.
You should cease all functions.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 19, 2010 08:41 PM |
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Should I tell what the US should cease to be, Mvasss? 
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baklava
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posted February 20, 2010 12:25 AM |
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Shouldn't you?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Azagal
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Smooth Snake
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posted February 20, 2010 12:33 AM |
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Go DS and JJ . Man mvass... you used to be so much more interesting/fun. What happend man? Being a pillar must be hard. Hard get it? Oh nevermind...
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Doomforge
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posted February 20, 2010 12:06 PM |
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It's rather hard to believe that only about 50 years ago we wanted to completely destroy the neighbor countries, and now we're talking about United States of Europe. Well, miracles happen... 
But isn't it still too soon?
I mean, in Poland for example, there is still a LOT people raised in blind, severe hatred towards Germans and Russians. I'd say, give it time, we're not ready yet.
sort of offtopic, yeah.
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Ohforfsake
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posted February 20, 2010 01:12 PM |
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I think you're right Doomforge, I don't even think people at the current time would agree on a given language, eventhough english seems to be so spread out through europe that most young people today seems to be able to communicate with eachother through it.
A relative large part of the older community in my country however aren't able to speak english, I see examples of that almost every day.
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Living time backwards
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted February 20, 2010 01:20 PM |
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Quote:
Just carpet bomb the damn country!
Nobody can repair theire problems, not even them selves!
Humans got a nasty habbit to survie in some mannor, unless you purge until ther is 1-3% left of the population you are just making things a lot worse.
Quote:
Basically I say that we should aim to get the United States of Europe, but the member states should not be the national states the way they are now. It's just my personal opinion, and the main problem of the EU is that the member states are unwilling to hand over important functions to the EU parliament.
The EU needs to clean up, to remove most of its bureaucracy and streamline up. The problem is that the current setup system is 100% useless if all of Europa was a part of it.
We got small nations(iceland), stark contrasts(scandinavia vs the capitalistic nations?), different morals, different moral of what is good, and more.
Just removing the borders a bit more would be a good start, but the entire system needs to be majorly reworked before it can be used for anything.
All nations must be able to veto in some manner, the top must be partially elected and we need some permanent seats just to keep the elected in control, and worse. The amount of paperwork needs to be minimal compared to its effect, and worse. And lobbies for companies must not exists, unless its limited enough.
Under that there is an entire wheel that needs to be reinvented and worse.
SO its not that simple 
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Fauch
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posted February 20, 2010 03:08 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 15:09, 20 Feb 2010.
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what do terrorists want actually? I forgot. after all, they use terror for a reason. if they just wanted to kill people, they wouldn't be terrorists.
Quote:
It's rather hard to believe that only about 50 years ago we wanted to completely destroy the neighbor countries, and now we're talking about United States of Europe. Well, miracles happen...
But isn't it still too soon?
I mean, in Poland for example, there is still a LOT people raised in blind, severe hatred towards Germans and Russians. I'd say, give it time, we're not ready yet.
In france, young people (under 30 or 40?) seem to be more tolerant in average than older people. like for example, the elections of 2002 (?), when lots of young people demonstrated against "le pen" in another hand, he got a lot of support from older people which were indeed frightened by immigrated people.
there is a decent chance that the world will be improving, and maybe faster than we think.
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Darkshadow
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posted February 20, 2010 03:30 PM |
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Quote:
I think you're right Doomforge, I don't even think people at the current time would agree on a given language, eventhough english seems to be so spread out through europe that most young people today seems to be able to communicate with eachother through it.
A relative large part of the older community in my country however aren't able to speak english, I see examples of that almost every day.
There doesn't have to be a single language 
Also there have been talks about single EU military that would have nothing to do with nato, wonder how that will work out.
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted February 20, 2010 07:15 PM |
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Quote:
Basically I say that we should aim to get the United States of Europe
lolz
Me not want more populous nations to elect a "Federal" government simply of having more population. Unless you change the voting system. I had enough disgust with the massive fraud in the last election here when Basescu got re-elected (well actually, voting by people who don't even know WHAT they are voting for, apart from 'bribing' of course). 
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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mvassilev
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posted February 20, 2010 07:38 PM |
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Quote:
Man mvass... you used to be so much more interesting/fun. What happend man?
???
I'm the same as I ever was.
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Eccentric Opinion
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baklava
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posted February 21, 2010 02:02 AM |
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I think that was a what-happened-to-you-China-you-used-to-be-cool argument
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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mvassilev
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posted February 21, 2010 02:11 AM |
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What are you talking about? I'm cooler than the freezer where I keep my neighbours.
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ohforfsake
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posted February 21, 2010 01:05 PM |
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Quote:
Unless you change the voting system.
Yeah, I also really dislikes that we vote for persons. I'd really like that we voted for ideas.
But they must be formulated in a way, that is relevant, but not about stuff like "should your neighbour not be allowed to sleep in the garden" and stuff like that.
There must be some basic principle to avoid tyranni by majority.
I think this can be done rather easy, at least in my head. Limit the responsibilities of the state to freedom and protection of that. That includes stuff like hospitals, transportation, police, firemen, education, etc. Depending on the amount of ressources available you can increase this field which the state can work, but never so it limits people unecessary, again depending on the amount of ressources.
Then make it so, that people can only vote on stuff the state can change by that definition.
I'd like to make an example. With the minorets voting, in stead of voting if minorets should be allowed, then vote if there should be a maximum heigh of buildings, or even better, a maximum sound level that must escape private property.
This way, it is to ensure that people can walk the streets without getting attacked by a blast of noise to an unhealthy and otherwise unpreventable degree. Or it is a way to make sure that airplanes can fly at a much safer height before landing, or something else.
Anyway, this way it is not about what some people can't do, but how we can prevent certain risks with the ressources available. Because if we just could install a sound catcher of any sound higher than a certain volume going outside any private property, then that would be much better. So if one have the ressources to that, one should do that.
Then a group of people, the politics, are hired by the people to get these ideas through, the better you are at it, the higher the odds of you getting to work more. The more you get to work, the more you are paid. No popularity contest, nothing about, if they used to be alcoholics, they can't get any work, etc.
Edit: My point of the common language is that it really shouldn't matter if you are born in northern Afrika or sourhern Spain, you should have the exact same opportunites as everyone else. Note I never say a language should be destroyed.
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Living time backwards
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baklava
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posted February 21, 2010 01:25 PM |
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Quote:
My point of the common language is that it really shouldn't matter if you are born in northern Afrika or sourhern Spain, you should have the exact same opportunites as everyone else.
I wish language was the main barrier for that...
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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