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| Thread: Free electricity |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Carcity
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posted March 27, 2010 11:34 AM |
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Free electricity
Scientists have proven many times that energy can't be created out of nothing, it is transformed into the form of energy we use (electricity) by other means, nuclear power, solar power, wind power etc. But is it possible to create more energy than is given in a process like this? It was created a Keppe engine some time ago that is said to produce more energy than it uses, it is rather simple. Is it possible that this works?
I also heard that Tesla, the creator of the alternating current electricity, believed this is possible.
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Shares
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posted March 27, 2010 12:56 PM |
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Edited by Shares at 13:03, 27 Mar 2010.
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Perpetual machines and free energy is impossible. Well, free energy is. What you can do however, is to create more efficient machines and actually use all of the energy. For example: Fission uses heavy atoms, usually uranium, and splits it. This way, some matter is converted to energy (motion), this motion is turned into heat via friction in water, this heat boils the water to yet again turn it into motion energy so that we can move a turbine to create electricity.
This means that most of the energy is wasted into heat that we usually just pump out the oceans (just regular warm water). Just look at were fission plants are placed on a map. Always near oceans or big lakes, and then check out the average temperature in that ocean and then check the temperature around the plant.
Now I don't know a lot about where most countries get their energy, but I know that Sweden get about 40% of it's energy from fission plants, and (guess)90% of the energy created in these plants is wasted. It doesn't take a lot of brains to figure out that having a very effective machine gives the impression that it's (near) free energy. What if suddenly all fission plants became ten times as effective? Would seem like near free energy to most people, wouldn't it?
Then there's perpetual machines. They're impossible on earth at least. Having an atmosphere means friction, and gravity is in the way to. In space? There's still gravity and friction, but not as much(from lonely atoms and from the atoms of the machine for example). If you however manage to take all this into calculation when creating the machine, or mange to seperate it from, well, the universe, then it would be possible in theory(to create a 100% efficient machine, but not more).
The conclusion: Having free energy means that you have to have a machine that's over 100% efficient, wich is impossible. Having a perpetual machine means having 100% efficiency, which may be possible, but propably not. And certainly not as it is right now.
How ever, it is clear that we don't know everything there is to science. Just look at gravity or the Huchison effect! Maybe in the future we'll find out how gravity works and then use that somehow.
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del_diablo
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posted March 27, 2010 01:41 PM |
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The definition of "free energy" is too vague.
Do you mean:
*100 effectives
*That we get "power" for free?
*That there is really not much waisted, even if what we get is ineffective?
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Carcity
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posted March 27, 2010 02:01 PM |
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@Shares, well, according to an organization, have forgotten the name now, they have created a machine that uses a 12v battery to power an engine, that powers a blade, this blade spins and creates friction energy,meanwhile they have attached a recharger on the other end of the blade, that charges the battery with more electricity than it uses, is this possible or are they just faking?
@Del_diablo, I'm using free energy as in you get more energy than used in the process of using it.
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JoonasTo
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posted March 27, 2010 03:52 PM |
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No. There is no free electricity.
You can create a machine like that.
But it won't be able to create more power than it draws.
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Carcity
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posted March 27, 2010 04:04 PM |
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Well, theoreticly, it should be possible, if we for example connect a small wind plant to a fan, and then spins the wind plant so it gives the fan electricity, allow the fan to blow on the wind plant, then it will power itself, but if we, behind the wind plant, places another one who powers a lgithbuld, then theoreticly we have made more power than we first used.
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Geny
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posted March 27, 2010 04:25 PM |
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Not under the current laws of thermodynamics. One of them clearly states that there can be no machine that creates as much energy as it consumes.
And, btw, if you connect a wind plant to both a fan and a light bulb then each one of them will only get a portion of the generated energy.
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Carcity
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posted March 27, 2010 04:38 PM |
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well, I thought of it more like a wind plant powers the fan, who powers the wind plant and another, who powers a ligthbulb, theoreticly it should work. and those laws don't apply in space do they?
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Azagal
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posted March 27, 2010 04:39 PM |
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You're 15 Carcity, shouldn't you have Chemistry by now (don't know the English translation for the word but something along the lines of "The constance of Energy" should be lesson 1)? I think they also tell you about the "Conservation of energy" in physics but it depends on your curriculum I guess.
The law of conservation of energy is an empirical law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only be transformed from one state to another. The only thing that can happen to energy in a closed system is that it can change form, for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy.
Think about it. Energy doesn't just magically spring to life its simply transformed from one state into another. There is no such thing as a perpetuum mobile and there never will be until we learn to defy the laws of physic as we know them.
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Geny
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posted March 27, 2010 04:41 PM |
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In that scenario the power the fan generates will be split between the two windmills, so it doesn't change much.
I'm not sure sure how things work in space, but I'm pretty sure that it's the same way, with the exception that maybe a machine can produce exactly the same amount of power as it consumes.
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Azagal
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posted March 27, 2010 04:44 PM |
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Ehm the law of the conservation of Energy is just as applicable in space... simply because we don't have gravity there doesn't mean that Energy simply springs to life out of nowhere. Space doesn't change anything.
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Geny
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posted March 27, 2010 04:45 PM |
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It removes the friction factor, which is why I believe a perfect conservation of energy may be possible there.
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Carcity
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posted March 27, 2010 04:57 PM |
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@Azagal, I have had chemistry in school, we have been taught about energy, but I just wondered if it's possible, our science teacher isn't really the smartest one if I may put it like that, he knows a lot but far from everything. And since there is an entire organization of more than 10 000 people that states it's possible, then it might be.
@Geny, well placing a wind plant in space and start spinning it manually will make it go on forever, since there is no friction stopping it, if we then connect a device who converts it into another kind of energy it should be possible.
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Azagal
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posted March 27, 2010 04:59 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 17:05, 27 Mar 2010.
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Why would it remove the friction factor? Because the individual components are now weightless and thus don't weight upon each other? I guess that would make sense but there is still surface friction. But I'm not very knowledgeable about this stuff apart from what I learned in school. It still doesn't sound right though (about the no friction, the perpetuum mobile idea is as futile as ever).
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Geny
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posted March 27, 2010 05:00 PM |
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Edited by Geny at 17:01, 27 Mar 2010.
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Placing a windmill in space an spinning it will do absolutely nothing, since there's no air in space and hence no wind either.
@Azagal
Surface friction is the main reason for my constant maybes.
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Carcity
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posted March 27, 2010 05:03 PM |
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Edited by Carcity at 17:04, 27 Mar 2010.
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Well, since the thingys inside the windmill is powered by the spinning blade, that in turn is powered by the wind, then if the blade is on an endless spin (endless because of the lack of particles stopping it) the thingys inside should be going on producing energy endlessly, correct?
edit: since the stuff is weightless and there is a vacuum in space, then the friction should be equal to 0 right?
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Corribus
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posted March 27, 2010 05:04 PM |
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Think of your question this way, Carcity: in order to create energy from nothing, as you say, all the laws of probability would have to be wrong.
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Azagal
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posted March 27, 2010 05:05 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 17:08, 27 Mar 2010.
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Carcity it is impossible. The laws of Physic and Chemistry simply don't allow it. And until we find a way to break them or bend them such a contraption will never exist. No matter how many people claim otherwise. And the machine you described that seems to be their "prototype" is hardly anything that's bending or redefineing the laws of physics. It works under the same terms any machine has so far and therefore it can not generate more power than it consumes. It's a hoax.
Just imagine what consequences their invention would have if it was true. We would have an infinite ressource of Energy. INFINITE! You'd think they'd go public with that, no?
And Carcity as Geny pointed out... there is no wind is space xD.
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Carcity
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posted March 27, 2010 05:08 PM |
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Edited by Carcity at 17:11, 27 Mar 2010.
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@Corribus, yes they would, I'm not saying I believe it is, I'm just saying it could be, possible.
@Azagal, well, they did go public, but for some reason it wasn't that big news, I'll see if I can find the video.
edit:
part 1
part 2
part 3
edit2: well, if it is started spinning manually, and the laws of friction and gravity have no effect on it, then that should be the same as a constant wind, no?
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Azagal
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posted March 27, 2010 05:11 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 17:17, 27 Mar 2010.
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Quote:
but for some reason it wasn't that big news
It wasn't big news because it doesn't work. Carcity the point is that it can't work. It is impossible atleast until we redefine the laws of physics (as I said earlier). It is that simple.
EDIT:
Man you're stubborn... Carcity there is still friction even in space. Who said that they don't apply? What do you base that on? Friction is just heavily reduced. Since man has not been able (and probably won't be for quite a while) to create a smooth surface. Smooth in the sense that it is perfect, as in it doesn't create friction on other surfaces. As long as we don't have that "perfect" surface there will always be friction between individual parts that work together and therefore there will always be a loss of Energy.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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