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| Thread: if you could live forever |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV |
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ohforfsake
Promising
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posted May 12, 2010 08:20 PM |
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When comparing everything that is contra nothing at all, then I can't imagine that nothing at all should be anything, but worse, than everything that is.
I'm not sure I can explain it better than that though.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 12, 2010 08:41 PM |
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It has a reason that 0 ain't the smallest number, but is dead centre between the positive and negative numbers.
Don't you think that eternal "hell" is worse than eternal nothingness?
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ohforfsake
Promising
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Initiate
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posted May 12, 2010 08:48 PM |
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If you want to put numbers on it then:
Non-existance, or if you want complete nothingness, is minus infinity (or infinity if you want it to be a value of how bad it is, or 0 if you want it to be the divisor of a function that expresses how bad it is).
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Don't you think that eternal "hell" is worse than eternal nothingness?
No, I don't. Because in eternal hell, I exist, eventhough it may be in pain it's still existance. In eternal nothingness (not assuming it just means no observation, but actually no observer) I don't exist at all.
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blizzardboy
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Nerf Herder
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posted May 12, 2010 08:58 PM |
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I think you should give up JJ.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted May 12, 2010 08:58 PM |
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Life is too short, but I would NEVER want to live forever..
No way I could give away my brains to live, no no.. I like eating.
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JollyJoker
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 12, 2010 09:36 PM |
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One last try, blizzard. 
Ohfor, you said two or so posts ago that you don't see any difference between a POTENTIAL life not come to pass and a real life ended.
Now, obviously INFINITELY more potential life is not coming to pass than life is actually lived and put to non-existance again. More so - there might be an INFINITE number of potential universes that may not come to pass with all this potential life in it...
Wouldn't that mean that putting on a condom is INFINITELY worse than torturing a living person?
And if you don't like that question: wouldn't it be infinitely better if you were tortured, maimed, raped and abused 50 years than simply being shot right away?
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ohforfsake
Promising
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posted May 12, 2010 10:59 PM |
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Ohfor, you said two or so posts ago that you don't see any difference between a POTENTIAL life not come to pass and a real life ended.
I might have misunderstood your question, as I did not intend to claim to not see a difference between someone never been born and someone dying. The area I see those as inseperate is the level of terror [how terrible it is] that's apparent for those two.
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Now, obviously INFINITELY more potential life is not coming to pass than life is actually lived and put to non-existance again.
To me, it is not obvious that there is infinitely more potential life that is not coming to pass, I'd say it's something we don't know. There could very well be a maximum amount of possible life, honestly I'd expect that. After all, at least when assuming life is a physical quantity (if it wasn't, it'd not, at least to me, give much sense talking about it), then all possible configurations of life in all possible embodiments of life would be finite. Sure if the universe truely is infinite (beyond the observable that is), then there's infinite much life that does not come to pass, but then again, there'd be infinite much live as well, so it's not a factor of infinite even then. It can be a factor of infinite if one would make even more assumptions, but until then, the factor isn't that 'high'.
An estimate of the highest would simply be by taking all that comes to live and divide with the amount of possibles, with humans that'd be taking all sperm cells.
However that alone may be overshooting it, because if there are more sperm cells than there are possible lives, eventually, somewhere, one consciousness will be in several different bodies.
All in all, unless consciousness either is defined upon observation, or is extremely highly present throughout the universe already (i.e. everything is consciouss, but not that much interacts, so we don't know it), then I'd say it's an unlikely claim to say there are infinite more potential life going to waste. Also you can make assumptions about the universe in general that'd make this true as well, but anyway, I think you get my point (that it is not obvious, at least not to me).
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Wouldn't that mean that putting on a condom is INFINITELY worse than torturing a living person?
As I understand this quote, you derive from me claiming that it to be terrible that someone does not exist, that it's wrong to not do all we can to let everyone exist. If I misunderstand I'm of course sorry for that.
Anyway, that understanding is wrong, we don't have responsibility for anyone to be able to exist in my opinion, as well as we don't have responsibility towards making everyone not die. We've responsibility defined through our possible choices, but in my opinion, these are only in the area of not limiting the freedom of others. It's much like abortion and how it went to an example of not letting someone into your house, even if it'd mean they'd probably get destroyed by the storm outside. The point is, it's your choice if you want to save them, but shouldn't be if you want to murder them. We don't choose to exist, but once we do exist, it's our existance.
So no, putting a condom on, is your choice if you want to let anyone into this world (very banaly put), which is your choice, and nothing wrong with in my opinion. Whereas torturing someone, against their will, is limiting their freedom.
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wouldn't it be infinitely better if you were tortured, maimed, raped and abused 50 years than simply being shot right away?
Would I survive the gun shot? The question is hard for me to understand, because as I see it, it's either:
1) High pain for a long time vs. high pain for a short time (I survive the shot)
Or
2) High pain for a long time vs. death
For 1) I'd choose to reduce the amount of pain as much as possible.
For 2) I'd choose to avoid death for as long as possible.
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