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JollyJoker
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posted March 26, 2026 07:19 PM |
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Ghost, the queestion of Russia's NATO membership is a bit more complicated than that. There was the NATO-Russia Council in 2002, that started in 2000 under a different name, but declined from 2005 onwards (with the beginning of Putin's second term as president). When Poland suggested a NATO membership in 2009, it was Putin who declined.
For Putin, the Ukraine is a part of Russia, period.
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Ghost
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Therefore I am
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posted March 26, 2026 07:51 PM |
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted March 26, 2026 11:27 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
For Putin, the Ukraine is a part of Russia, period.
Putin wrote various documents and essays, where he always stated the opposite, that Ukraine is sovereign, BUT sharing deep historical and cultural roots with Russia, hence there should be be cooperation and brotherhood. You won't find anywhere him saying otherwise. Not a single word.
Now, Ukraine says that nice dream was broken when Crimea joined Russia because military pressure. Despite multiple overwhelming votes of Crimeans in favor of joining Russia, we in the west continue to pull that it was a military coup. Remember, 70% of Crimeans ARE ethnically Russians. Only 15% are ethnically Ukrainians, so numbers obviously played into.
Putin also says that Ukraine broke that dream when they gave less rights to Russian population living in Ukraine then started slaughtering them, which is true but very little documented in the West.
Add to that the physical presence of Victoria Nuland, assistant Secretary of the US State for European and Eurasian Affairs in the middle of the Maidan coup demonstrators, then the leaked phone call where she is choosing the next Ukraine pro-USA government, and you get why things started to boil.
Both perspectives stand up. We, in Europe, rushed to take a side because our subservience to the USA, without any nuance or trying first to conciliate those perspectives, as there was plenty of ground for. Despite our economical interests, and for that blunder we will have to pay for the coming decades.
And that's why I was so supportive of Donald Trump, when he precisely stated that he will put an end to the constant meddling abroad, as only that can serve peace. Looks like old habits last longer than expected.
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You must not OFFEND people - Jolly Joker
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JollyJoker
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 27, 2026 12:07 AM |
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Same old. You believe what you want to believe. But in the end the truth is always what is actually HAPPENING, not in what someone says. And what is happening, has been happening, is proving you wrong. It's just that you want to cling to what you always believed, becaause no one wants to accept he's always believed something that isn't strictly right.
It's not about whether the US is right or Russia or who screwed up with what. You might look at Ukrainian history - how has Ukraine fared as conquered territory, couple huindred years ago and in the USSR. You might point to Russia breaking the treaty that led Ukraine to give up nuclear weapons, Russia being a guarantee power for Ukrainian borders. And you might point to lots of other things.
But in the end that's all meaningless. In the end it comes down not to NATIONS doing this or that, but certain PEOPLE and what they want and desire and believe.
Gorbachev obviously had quite different ideas about the future of the USSR than Putin has about the future of Russia. Trump is handling presidency of the US quite different from Biden.
All those people have something in common: they don't serve their people. They serve their own ideas and agendas. In some cases those align with the good of many, but in most cases they don't.
In the Russo-Ukrainian war - how many Russians have died so far? How many Ukrainians? How much value has been destroyed?
For WHAT?
For the "vision" of one man who threatens to use nuclear weapons if one enemy foot would touch Russian ground? And how would a pro-Western Ukraine change anything about that. Oh, except if Ukraine was considered Russian territory, that is.
So stop reading nonsense. Look at what's happening instead.
For proof? I mean, you was supportive of Trump because he said something. I have been saying that Trump is a narcissistiv liar, and I've been saying that ten years ago. Why? Because that was what was HAPPENING. Trump just has been lying constantly and with everything. How you were actually believing HIM when it was clear that you cannot even trust serious statespersons like Obama to tell the truth is beyond me. Or Putin. Why would you trust Putin to tell the truth? Considering that he's usurping near-dictatorial power?
Doesn't make sense.
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