|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted August 11, 2010 01:04 PM |
|
|
|
Mvass, I repeat my question: In which way do fundamental muslims abuse their children fundamental Jewish and Christians do not?
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 11, 2010 05:25 PM |
|
|
JJ:
In third-world countries, there isn't any difference. In first-world countries, however, fundamentalist Christians are somewhat integrated into general culture/society, and while they may teach strange and incorrect things to their children, they will not perform honour killings or demand that their girls cover themselves head-to-toe.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted August 11, 2010 05:54 PM |
|
|
Quote:
If a person can read they can see that the New Testament says persons who hate or murder are not Christian. There is nothing to "interpret" as the statemnets are pretty straightforward.
Nah, that is more than subjective enough. How come there is several houndred different christians, who uses different parts to describe a Christan?
The only thing you actually agree on that your neightbor, is most likely not a bad person.
____________
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted August 11, 2010 05:59 PM |
|
Edited by baklava at 18:03, 11 Aug 2010.
|
Quote:
please note that the church is not a physical nation, if you claim it is then show it on the map
Does the Vatican count?
If not, then I'll post the map of Paris with an arrow pointing to Notre Dame and marvel at the ingenuity of my wit and sense of humor.
:edit:
I read the first and last page of this thread. Considering what I saw, I don't suppose there's an on-topic post or two in the 11 pages in-between?
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
posted August 11, 2010 06:09 PM |
|
|
And of course it is coincidence this thread turned into a religious debatte again and THE TRUE CHRISTIAN is again part of this offtopic discussion.
Every post which contains bible quotes or quoran quotes or have close to nothing to do with the entire post will be deleted in the enxt days.
Keep your religion stuff (believe it or not, there are people who are NOT interested in these fairy tales  ) in the religion threads and don't infect all other threads!
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted August 11, 2010 06:31 PM |
|
Edited by baklava at 18:33, 11 Aug 2010.
|
Not that I don't understand your frustration, but if calling "their religion stuff" fairy-tales isn't a provocation, I don't know what is.
And the topic is about a mosque.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted August 11, 2010 08:26 PM |
|
Edited by angelito at 20:32, 11 Aug 2010.
|
I have already stated my opinoion about the bible many times. Everything which is written in a book and has nothing to back it up is the same as what H.C. Andersen wrote. Something to read. Some believe in what H.C. Andersen wrote (especially children), and some do not. Still they stay fairy-tales.
I am pretty sure a true christian can never be provoked by such opinions, cause his belief is too strong 
And the topic may be related to a mosque, but the idea behind that thread has clearly nothing to do with the bible.
It's like:
A black child molester gets free from jail again and wants to build a fitness center in the neighborhood of a kindergarten.
I don't think the healthiness of doing work outs in a fitness center is of ANY relevance here..
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 11, 2010 08:35 PM |
|
|
Quote:
JJ:
In third-world countries, there isn't any difference. In first-world countries, however, fundamentalist Christians are somewhat integrated into general culture/society, and while they may teach strange and incorrect things to their children, they will not perform honour killings or demand that their girls cover themselves head-to-toe.
I'm not so sure that you are correct for Italian, Greek, Mexican and similar immigrants in terms of honor killings - and it has to be said that honor killings are a somewhat rare occurence.
There is no difference in demanding that girls may be covered from head-to-toe or whether they have to wear knee-long skirts and blouses insted of ripped belly-free tank-tops etc. That's only gradual differences.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted August 11, 2010 09:49 PM |
|
Edited by Elodin at 21:50, 11 Aug 2010.
|
Quote:
I have already stated my opinoion about the bible many times. Everything which is written in a book and has nothing to back it up is the same as what H.C. Andersen wrote. Something to read. Some believe in what H.C. Andersen wrote (especially children), and some do not. Still they stay fairy-tales.
I am pretty sure a true christian can never be provoked by such opinions, cause his belief is too strong
And the topic may be related to a mosque, but the idea behind that thread has clearly nothing to do with the bible.
And of course there is no evidence to back up atheism and I consider that faith to be the biggest fairy tale of all.
I quoted Bible verses to counter false statemtnts people made about Christianity. You seem to want to allow anti-Christian statements to be made but don't want to allow evidencee (Bible quotes) to prove a person made a false statement about the teachings of Christianity. Whyis that?
____________
Revelation
|
|
Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
|
|
posted August 11, 2010 09:57 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I am pretty sure a true christian can never be provoked by such opinions, cause his belief is too strong
Well it's not provoking but it's not a particularily nice way of phrasing things is it now? I mean your double standards aren't anything new but that doesn't make them less annoying especially if you (rightfully) encourage others to keep stuff like that out of their posts. I understand where you're coming from and it's cool if you don't believe in a god and think the bible is bull**** just don't claim christianity is bull**** simply because the bible is nonsensical, outdated and open to interpretation at times.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 11, 2010 10:16 PM |
|
|
JJ:
But the point is that Arabic/Islamic culture says honour killings are okay in certain situations.
Quote:
There is no difference in demanding that girls may be covered from head-to-toe or whether they have to wear knee-long skirts and blouses insted of ripped belly-free tank-tops etc.
There's quite a difference. Burqas are oppression, and normal dress is to be taken seriously and not have lustful men drooling all over a girl.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 12, 2010 12:20 AM |
|
|
How can you say that Atheism is a religion.
Christians etc state that god exists and that what stands in the Bible is true.
Atheists do not claim that they know that the Big Bang happened etc because it is a THEORY and not a fact. When we come up with something that has more evidence and makes more sense, we will swap to that theory. But right now, it is the best we have.
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted August 12, 2010 12:38 AM |
|
|
But Angelito, haven't you even played with the thought that banning quotes from the Qur'an in a topic about building a mosque while at the same time freely sprouting cliché atheist catchphrases which have even less to do with the topic is, as Az said, a tad senseless?
Nothing against your religion, just saying.
And about the provocation part, there's nothing that can make you doubt you're German either, and yet you still don't like to see people calling you guys Nazis. Right?
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted August 12, 2010 12:49 AM |
|
Edited by baklava at 00:58, 12 Aug 2010.
|
Quote:
Burqas are oppression, and normal dress is to be taken seriously and not have lustful men drooling all over a girl.
Oh come on, there are so many better arguments than that one.
It's all in the culture. Lustful men drool over what they are thought are intimate parts of a girl. Two centuries ago, it was considered inappropriate for a girl to show her ankles in public. About a century ago, people went to brothels to see chicks dancing in those underpants which were as long as today's trousers. Compare swimming costumes for girls 50 years ago and now.
Some Muslims consider it inappropriate for a girl to show off some parts of her body; which happens to be more parts than in current Western culture. That's simply what they're taught.
Publicly whipping girls that show off their hair, now that's a problem. But I don't think that goes on among Muslims in France or Sweden or Switzerland.
No, I think the reason those Western countries are panicking is that burqas are a symbol, an everyday reminder that their own culture is slowly being overrun by another one; one that's too foreign and incomprehensible to accept, one that proved itself expansive and aggressive too many times not to be feared, and one that thrives on the freedoms those countries offer, refusing to merge and be assimilated, to the point of becoming a major, though sublime, threat to the nation's integrity. And situations like that breed eerie ideas.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted August 12, 2010 12:53 AM |
|
|
Though I'm certainly not a fan of Islamic culture, I'm fully willing to admit there are certain slices of it that a secular human should reflect upon. I mean let's face it: women have been liberated from civil inequality, but being looked at like a piece of meat that belongs on its knees is a relatively recent outlook that has otherwise been strongly discouraged in past centuries. Women have culturally become more objectified in some respects and they shouldn't have to suffer that. How many Muslim women suffer from anorexia and cosmetic consumerism? Can we honestly say that their self-esteems are in the gutter? I'm not so sure. Of course, they shouldn't be pressured into walking around with a tarp on their head either, but in some ways I think they get more respect than a typical Western woman could ever dream of.
Some of it is completely biological. A part of our primal inner-male wants to tell women to shut up and suck it when commanded, then there's our more sophisticated sensibilities that desire a more advanced relationship.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 12, 2010 01:52 AM |
|
|
Bak:
Quote:
Publicly whipping girls that show off their hair, now that's a problem. But I don't think that goes on among Muslims in France or Sweden or Switzerland.
But they'd like to, and they're trying hard to make that happen.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
|
|
posted August 12, 2010 02:26 AM |
|
Edited by Azagal at 02:27, 12 Aug 2010.
|
Excuse me? Says who? Your local communist radio? The muslims in europe are in general quite a bit more restraint than their bretheren in the east mvass. What you hear about are hardliners and they're everywhere. There is no serious attempt to start with the Sharia anywhere in europe. Some may live by it but it is most certainly not officially on it's way anywhere in europe.
Oh and who are you to speak for them btw?
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 12, 2010 02:34 AM |
|
|
Why should burqas, niqabs etc be forbidden? I do not think that most girls are like "do this or die!!!" when they are young.
In fact, I have not ever seen a single young person wearing a burqa only hijabs (which should be zero problems). Is that something that some muslims start to wear when they grow older?
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted August 12, 2010 02:39 AM |
|
Edited by baklava at 02:42, 12 Aug 2010.
|
@MVass
Maybe even so, but that's a non-argument in any case. There still isn't any viable proof for that any more than Jews trying to control Europe before WW2, and, as such, any remotely oppressive measures taken against them as a religious or ethnic minority can be (perhaps rightly) regarded as human rights violations and acts of fascism.
I'm pretty sure of this because the same pretty much happened in the Kosovo issue, or so I'm led to believe according to most of the world's media. The difference is that the USA doesn't accept the judgment of international courts, although it fondly uses it as an argument in some of the other issues on the planet, and other Western countries could be protected under its wing. Nonetheless, everyone's afraid of the avalanche that such radical measures could provoke, so what you guys seem to have now is an uneasy status quo, which smells like it's slowly outstaying its welcome.
The key similarity is that we more or less got ourselves into the whole ethnic minority separatist pickle by our own fault (or, rather, by the fault of the authorities at the time), just like you.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 12, 2010 02:40 AM |
|
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
