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| Thread: the disparity of wealth |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted October 30, 2010 05:30 AM |
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Fair:
When Binabik gets thrown back in jail only 3 days after getting out, and when he gets out again the probation officer makes him take that drafting job in an engineering company or the judge will send him back to jail, and the president of the company who is also a preacher feels it's his duty to hire the stray dogs off the street and give them a chance, and it turns out he's pretty good at the job and soon works up from drafter to designer, and eventually he works 9-10 hour days then drives 45 minutes to the university to sit 4-5 hours in class to help move up in his field, and 14-15 hours after leaving that morning starts the half hour drive back home where he can sleep for a while, but his sleep is interrupted 2-4 times during the night to change the diapers on the baby, and suddenly it's morning and time to go do it over again, and after getting enough experience to get better jobs he sacrifices current pay to get better experience that will hopefully pay off in the future, and when the technology changes he spends a few thousand dollars (which is a hell of a lot of money for him at the time) on a specialized computer and software to learn the new CAD systems, and eventually goes back to school again to further increase his education, and in another 5 years is nearing the top of his field so he can work 110 hours a week plus another 2 hours a day getting ready for work and driving to work and back for a grand total of 124 hours a week, all so he can develop new technologies and design them cheap enough so someone halfway around the world can afford an advanced computer without having to work more than 40 hours a week because other people will do all the damn work for them.
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shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 30, 2010 01:34 PM |
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Edited by shyranis at 13:44, 30 Oct 2010.
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Based on my last post.
Fair:
When everybody is given an even chance to succeed in life based on what they choose to do or not.
Edit: Bin's post is based on choices too. There are places where people cannot get the education (not available enough to the public) or work jobs that pay enough for them to do anything about their lives. Said places also generally don't let people leave. I'm not talking about jails, which are places where you have (typically, unless you're in for political reasons) earned a combination of free food and regular beatings.
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Doomforge
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Retired Hero
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posted October 30, 2010 03:41 PM |
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Quote:
I still don't see how life isn't fair. Perhaps someone could explain it to me. Actually, I'm still waiting on a definition of "fair".
You are born without legs, starving and being raped each 2 days till death at the age of five while a person born on the other side of the planet gets born in a loving family that solves all his problems and teaches him how to be a great person. He has money, he finds love, he is happy.
Life is so fair, isn't it... do I really need to conjure a definition or will you just accept this example as defining best that life is not fair? 
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 30, 2010 04:47 PM |
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No, Doomforge.
If you use a word you must define it, otherwise you can't use it.
Still, fairness is offtopic in this thread, that's why I created one for this purpose.
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phoenixreborn
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Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted November 20, 2010 06:19 PM |
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Elodin wrote
Quote:
I worked 3 jobs at once and saved lots of money.
My question is what is a typical weekly schedule working 3 jobs? 7-3, 4-12 Monday through Friday? And part-time on the weekend? Sleep 5 hours a night?
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Elodin
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Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted November 20, 2010 11:23 PM |
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Quote:
Elodin wrote
Quote:
I worked 3 jobs at once and saved lots of money.
My question is what is a typical weekly schedule working 3 jobs? 7-3, 4-12 Monday through Friday? And part-time on the weekend? Sleep 5 hours a night?
Something like:
4AM-9AMish, Tuesday-Sunday (at a bakery)
9ish-3:30, Monday-Thursday (lattitude to come in when the first job was done) (at a school)
4:00PM-2AM Thursday-Sunday (at a computer tech support center; sometimes I worked more than 4 days per week here and the days worked changed from time to time.)
As you can see, very little sleep. I did that for three years. Summers were the easiest time as I did not work at the school during the summer.
When people want to whine about not having enough money and how they have the right to take mine I have no sympathy.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted November 20, 2010 11:43 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 00:48, 21 Nov 2010.
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Quote:
When people want to whine about not having enough money and how they have the right to take mine I have no sympathy.
Taking a couple of jobs,sleeping for 5 hours,trying to learn...
I am really curious on how did you manage all of that?
What was your entire salary combined btw?
Quite inspirational stuff on what you have written.
As for fair unfair and people compaining about unfairness.
Each answer is to be found on ourselves.If there is a goal,there is a way to it.No complaining!This is life!
This leads to cognitive disonance(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance).At least I am in such a condition.
maybe the idea"i can work 150 hours a week so dont cmplain is flawed"
if i am an athlete and can walk 40 km without a problem to a market store,does this mean that other people should be able to do so aswell?
This is a logical problem.If you complain,you dont walk and therefore you fail to improve your condition.If you dont complain,you agree with the situation and dont think about it,and maybe by not thinking you fail to improve it.
In the end this leads to nowhere.If you agree,you take excessive time and work to achieve your goal,that being in this case to reach the market,or you complain about the issue and risk wasting time,thus doing nothing,or get the authorities make a bus transit.
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted November 21, 2010 12:06 AM |
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I guess I managed just by having a dream---and drinking a lot of caffine. I grew up in deep poverty and saw only one way out. Hard work. I didn't feel like getting up when I got the chance to sleep but I did, with a lot of groans. 
My jobs paid about:
$1600 per month for the first job.
$800 per month from the private church school. (a small salary but I considered it be partly volunteer work.)
$1600 per month for the third (roughly)
So 4K per month except for the two months I didn't work at the school during the summer. Most of what I made I saved, living in basicly a slum apartment and eating beans and rice and peanut butter&jelly sandwiches.
Most people are capable of pushing themselves far beyond what they think they can.
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blizzardboy
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Nerf Herder
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posted November 21, 2010 12:25 AM |
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And since you had to go through that, you're embittered by the idea of another poor person not having to sacrifice as much.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted November 21, 2010 12:43 AM |
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Quote:
I guess I managed just by having a dream---and drinking a lot of caffine. I grew up in deep poverty and saw only one way out. Hard work. I didn't feel like getting up when I got the chance to sleep but I did, with a lot of groans.
My jobs paid about:
$1600 per month for the first job.
$800 per month from the private church school. (a small salary but I considered it be partly volunteer work.)
$1600 per month for the third (roughly)
So 4K per month except for the two months I didn't work at the school during the summer. Most of what I made I saved, living in basicly a slum apartment and eating beans and rice and peanut butter&jelly sandwiches.
Most people are capable of pushing themselves far beyond what they think they can.
Amaizing,really.Very nice to read these things.I envy you because you were able to do all of this stuff.I really like to read things people have achieved.Gives me some thoughts about myself.
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wog_edn
Promising
The Nothingness
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posted November 21, 2010 12:56 AM |
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@ Elodin
You do realize you were lucky to get three jobs? In many countries there are big problems even getting any jobs at all. Times change, I'd guess it's much more difficult now (at least here, after that economical crisis) getting a job than before. All the jobs are either being filled with those who have experience from the same kind of work, or they require education. Getting by is really difficult, as things are so incredibly expensive over here.
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Elodin
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Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted November 21, 2010 01:35 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 01:36, 21 Nov 2010.
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Quote:
And since you had to go through that, you're embittered by the idea of another poor person not having to sacrifice as much.
Oh, no, I'm not bitter about going through that at all. I knew what it was going to take to get out of poverty and I did it. You appreciate something that much more when you earn it.
I could have just sat back like some of my friends and said," Woe is me! The man has beatten me down. I don't have gave a chance in life." But I chose to work instead of whine.
Quote:
You do realize you were lucky to get three jobs? In many countries there are big problems even getting any jobs at all
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As I have said the less a nation limits your economic freedom the more opportunities you have. But there are usually jobs that are easy to get if you are willing to clean toilets or work manual labor jobs. And if you prove to be a dependable and hard worker the employer will want to keep you around.
Anyways if a person is facing adversity and throws up his hands and quits he will not get out of the situation. You've got to pick yourself you and keep going
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted November 21, 2010 01:44 AM |
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It is much more complex. People with high diplomas can have a hard time to get an appropriate job. More you specialize in a domain, less jobs there are for you. Asking someone with a doctorate to clean toilets is unfair and cruel. He can struggle for many years before he gets the right job, but he is the only one deserving it.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted November 21, 2010 02:15 AM |
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Think about this scenario,take a student who has to pay uni and his flat.
His uni costs him about 100 a month and hist appartment 300$.After spending time on job search,he/she found a job as a taylor that produces 500 a month while working 8 hours a day.How will the student improve his condition?If he/she works hard,he/she wont be able to learn for the university and therefore be unable to end this condition.The only solution is to find another job and start saving.
All of this works IF he/she finds a job in the first place.
Taking a univesity has become a luxury,and as usual everybody is extremely unforgiving.
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"Science is not fun without cyanide"
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blizzardboy
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Nerf Herder
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posted November 21, 2010 02:42 AM |
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Quote:
It is much more complex. People with high diplomas can have a hard time to get an appropriate job. More you specialize in a domain, less jobs there are for you. Asking someone with a doctorate to clean toilets is unfair and cruel. He can struggle for many years before he gets the right job, but he is the only one deserving it.
If he had to personally pay for his education, he'll be soaking up his paycheck trying to pay his monthly loans with an unskilled labor job. If the government paid for it, then it's huge financial lose either way to send a person to university for 8+ years and have them doing such work; not to mention that such a history on your resume can damn you.
It's not necessarily as simple as "I guess I'll take so and so job until another job magically pops up". You don't want to work at a job that's not related to your field for too long.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Doomforge
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Retired Hero
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posted November 21, 2010 10:01 AM |
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A student earning 1600$ AND having enough time to work in two other jobs?
Holy. That was really the land of opportunity back then, and dollar was worth much more
You know, in our country, earning 1000 CURRENT dollars (and like 500 of Elodin's time) after school is pretty tricky and it demands a lot of attention. You will not be able to find a second job. Why? Because the boss will most likely require you to do extra work AFTER job. For free. You can of course decline... but there already is like 20 persons waiting for a job like yours. So you're not exactly in position to complain. Most of people will feel as if the caught God's feet if they get 1000$ in their first job in a non-capital town.
And guess what? the prices are the same here as in US, roughly. Sure, there may be some differences, the food may be cheaper here or so. But apartments cost crazy amounts of cash (at least 600$ for a single-roomed flat 30m^2) and food, cosmetics, power, internet, water and everything else combined eats the rest.
And what are you supposed to save in such situation?
The reason you're still arguing with Elodin is because Elodin completely lacks the ability to understand that not all of the world is like US - and more or less, the US HE remembers from his youth, that exact situation where he got three jobs (non mutually exclusive) in the richest country in the world in its prime time. Such situation is like saying "just work more" when you are living on a garbage dump and a person saying those words lives in a gold mine. With lots of gold lying around.
Don't think you can convince him that not everyone was born in a gold mine with the ability to mine at three different spots simultaneously
It sort of reminds me of celebrities who get bajillion dollars for nothing and advocate "hard work". Sure, they just forget how lucky they were to get born with talent, and get spotted by some headhunter early on. It's already like winning a lottery. Is anyone winning a lottery entitled to give advice to others?
I think not.
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angelito
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proud father of a princess
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posted November 21, 2010 12:34 PM |
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The problem in Germany with 2nd and/or 3rd job is, you pay incredible high taxes for everything which is more than 400 Euro extra additional to your first job.
So if you earn 1600 and 800 with your both additonal jobs, you would pay more than 50% taxes for those. Earned 2400, recieved less than 1200....not sure this is a goal to achieve....
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Elodin
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posted November 22, 2010 07:31 AM |
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Ah yes, the US is the only country in the whole world where working harder/longer hours/more jobs makes a difference. It would seem the rest of the world is doomed.
If that is so it would seem the rest of the world should adopt American style capitolism eh?
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Doomforge
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posted November 22, 2010 11:02 AM |
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Why, your country is crumbling and your public debt will soon exceed your GDP. Not a example to follow, if you ask me.
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Fauch
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 22, 2010 05:57 PM |
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Quote:
The problem in Germany with 2nd and/or 3rd job is, you pay incredible high taxes for everything which is more than 400 Euro extra additional to your first job.
my mother was saying the same, if she would work more than she currently does, she would have to pay much more tax. maybe she would even get less money at the end than what she has now.
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