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Hero_Of_Light
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 18, 2012 04:47 PM |
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It doesn't work. Now the reduction doesn't take place at all (loaded game or not).
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 18, 2012 04:51 PM |
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Replace in last script TM27 with TM21, of course. I used it for test only.
!?TM21;
!!OW:C?v7890; #0
!!UN:U98/8/?y1; y1 - number of Conflux towns
!!FU&y1=0:E; exit if nothing found
!!VRy2:S0; reset counter
!!VRv2:C-1/0/0; clear search vars
!!UN:U98/8/-1/2; #5 find next town in v2..v4
!!CA2:O?v5;
!!FU&v5<>v7890:E;
!!CA2:B3/9; check its Castle building
!!if&1:; if built
!!CA2:B3/35; check level 6 building
!!CA2&1:M1/5/d-1/d B3/42; subtract 1 from level6 creatures
!!CA2&1:M1/5/d/d-1; subtract 1 from level6 upgraded creatures
!!en:;
!!VRy2:+1; increase counter
!!SN&y2<y1:G5; repeat if not all towns processed
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Era II mods and utilities
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Hero_Of_Light
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 18, 2012 05:03 PM |
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Seems to work OK now, thanks
I am confused though, I thought that having the same trigger twice would mean that it wouldn't work. TM21 was used for the third and fourth creature slots.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 18, 2012 05:09 PM |
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I did not change anything to your triggers, only add check for castle owner and active player-which is a must when run multiple players timers-. In your test map timer ran once when red, -1 faerie, then ran again on blue player turn, subtracting one more. When it reached negative I had this:
Note that this bug screwed all interface, the cost also went into the negative. Combined with your CM1 trigger (which checks for available creatures) then I had a lot of glitches when clicking around.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Slayer
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 19, 2012 01:11 AM |
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I don't know much about modding for H3 but shouldn't you be able to run checks within the game to reduce the spawn by something like this?
Fort or Lower -1 (2-1=1)
Citadel -1 (2-1-1=1)
Castle -1 (2-1-1-1=1)
I'm not sure if thats possible but wouldn't that do your desired effect?
Also, since Stronghold is pretty offensive heavy maybe Nomads could have a very weak block skill instead of fury, like crystal dragons? (Maybe even a shield to)
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Hero_Of_Light
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 19, 2012 01:32 PM |
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It's already been taken care of. As for the Nomads, block is a very substantial bonus for such a low level unit. In any case, now some of the Stronghold's low level creatures have fury and some high level have bloodlust. That's the deliberate pattern here.
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HoL-Fan
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 20, 2012 03:15 PM |
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Hi, I played the 3.1 Standalone for a long time (thanks!) but somehow I can't get HoL 3.21 to work properly.
I installed HoMM3 Complete, then ERAII, copied the Mods HoL and NewObjectsPatch and now have a ModManager load order of:
-HoLv321
-WOG
-NewObjectsPatch
-Secondary Skills Scrolling
The background picture&music in the main menu fits the HoL mod and the descriptions of the town-buildings are changed as well but they still produce the vanilla units. Is there anything I missed?
WoG seems to work properly
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Hero_Of_Light
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 20, 2012 03:56 PM |
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Nice to see a true fan... If I understand your username correctly that is
I don't know about the Mod Manager. I never used it myself, I just copied the HoLv32 folder in the Mods folder. But I guess it should be WOG first since it is the basis of all mods. I don't know though, I must be mistaken.
In any case, from what you're describing, I should guess that you didn't load the appropriate WOG options. Are you sure you did that?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 20, 2012 03:59 PM |
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No, HoL must be first and have priority over WoG. If you have screen graphics but not creatures, it means you did not load settings.dat.
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Era II mods and utilities
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HoL-Fan
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 20, 2012 04:07 PM |
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Yes, I read about the WoG options but don't know where to change them.
I have a settings.dat in the root directory of the game, how do I load it?
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Hero_Of_Light
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 20, 2012 04:17 PM |
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On the single player setup menu there is a button (WOG settings). It opens a new window and there on the bottom there's a new button called "Load". Search for the HoLv32.dat file (it is in the HoLv32 folder) and load it. Then you'll be good to go.
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HoL-Fan
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 20, 2012 04:20 PM |
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Thanks a lot! 
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micro401
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 20, 2012 07:41 PM |
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Edited by micro401 at 19:44, 20 Sep 2012.
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Hello Hero of Light. I have a problem with creatures at my era II hol v3.21 mod. How to change buying creators count? becouse when i upgrade my necropolis wraiths to dark queens (only DEF i think, becouse stats are low) i get them like i get dark knight (2 +2 from castle). How to change this problem?
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Hero_Of_Light
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 20, 2012 08:16 PM |
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Wraiths are not to be upgraded to Dark Queens. Your problem is the same as HoL-fan's was. Read the previous posts.
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BalanceFanatic
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 21, 2012 04:51 PM |
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Hey, Hero_Of_Light, great job doing the whole mod. It's really outstanding. I really appreciate your hard work because your mod brings so much originality into the game.
You said you like Rampart thus you have tweaked it a lot. I also am a big fan of this town (the music and atmosphere is just brilliant).
But honestly, your changes have turned Rampart into completely overpowered castle. It was already pretty strong in SoD because of powerful fast units available in week 1 - Centaur Captains, Grand Elves and Pegasi. Not only their speed gives edge in battle, it actually allows to walk few more tiles on adventure map every day.
An average player would have 17 Grand Elves at the start of week 2 and this was enough to clear throngs of lvl 1, hordes of lvl 2, lots of lvl 3-4 units (with Battle Dwarf block, even more was possible). Not every castle had these capabilities, I don't know if beating 50 Demons in week 2 would be that easy for, let's say, Inferno.
After the mod tweaks, Rampart is even more ridiculous. For 4000 gold only you can have Sentinels - units with advanced slow, in DAY 2!!!
You can divide them into few stacks along with Centaurs and Elves (and optionally, Pegasi) and you can wreck almost everything (except for very fast units or powerful shooters). Slowing 3 enemy stacks into half speed in day 2 is a big advantage.
That's not all, let's compare their stats with Zealot. In case they stats have no differences, I write them only once:
Sentinel/Zealot
Att 12
Def 10
Dmg 9-12 / 10-12
Hp 30
Speed 7
Cost 400
Growth 3/4 - but who cares, Sentinels have a horde building, so its 4/4.
Mind spell immunity, powerful slow / Some no melee penalty crap
Zealot has 4,8% more damage and no melee penalty, while Sentinel has gamebreaking slow and mind spell immunity.
Both of them cost 400 gold!
Let's take a further look: How many resources do we need to build their dwellings and start producing both of them?
How many days would it takes since day 1?
Sentinels: just Homestead, which by the way is what most Rampart players buy.
Total cost: 10 wood, 5500 gold, in day 2 of first week you already have 3 free casts of advanced slow per turn!
Zealots: Mage Guild 1, Blacksmith, Barracks. Blacksmith is practically a waste of day.
Total cost: 15 wood and ore, 2 of each rare, 10000 gold, since day 4. Much more, huh?
Rampart totally outclassed Castle in this one. As for me, it is necessary to nerf Sentinels. Forget Dendroids, nobody is going to use them now. And they slow army movement a lot. These are my suggestions how to balance this:
0) This is most obligatory - change their place with Dendroids, so you need to upgrade Dendroid Arches to recruit them.
1) change Slow from adv. to basic level OR give it a % chance.
2) Reduce their speed - 7 speed is a lot (Grand Elf), this is as much as Roc, Wyvern or Genie has. I would change it to 5 or 6, but 6 is too many for me.
3) Reduce their hp from 30 to 25 and defense from 10 to 9/8? Slow gives them and extra turn over melee units so they need to be fragile against ranged units to balance this a bit. Anyway, they have support of Grand Elves and Sharpshooters to take out enemy ranged units before they do anything.
4) Remove mind spell immunity? I know this is a leftover after Psychic Elemental but maybe it can be changed. I just don't any premise why they should be immune to Blind or Berserk. You can't stop them from slowing you, and when you are slowed, you are dead.
5) Reduce their damage a bit. From 9-12 to 8-11 or something like that.
Even after all of these nerfs together, I would still pick them over Dendroids. Or just fill all unused slots with 1 of them and use Dendrois as "main" lvl 5 unit. This just shows how strong they are.
Ok, that's enough for Sentinels. Almost all I wrote was just about one unit. Let's continue to other Rampart units: Drakeling.
Drakeling is also ridiculous. It is an unupgraded unit with 12 speed. It can instantly reach opposite shooters!
Look at that from this perspective: it's faster than Master Geni. It's faster than Thunderbird or a Wyvern Monarch!
It is even faster than Green Dragon (10) which is an adult dragon, not some semi-dragon! Isn't it supposed to be slower than other Dragons, because it hasn't reach their awesomeness yet? Reducing their speed to 7-9 is a necessity. This can be balanced out by further boosting other of its stats. If it's supposed to be a defensive unit, give it hp/def, etc.
Also, I don't understand why the Pegasi dwelling requires 10 ore instead of crystal. It gives you 5 strong 8-speeded flyers in day 2/3! Their cost should be like in original game and upgraded dwelling should be now even more expensive. Now, it gives you a choice between two deadly, super-fast units: Valkyrie (Silver Pegasi with Chain Lightning, duh) or Sharpshooter (yes, Gelu's Sharpshooters which do insane damage). 4000 gold, 10 ore and 10 crystal isn't much of a expense, because I get mega strong units. But if Pegasi upgrade costed 10-15 wood or 5-10 crystals...
If any of these dwellings had similiar resource requirements, I would have to think which I want to upgrade. But Elves need wood (20 wood), Pegasi/Sharps need ore and crystals and Sentinels need just gold. Lvl 3,4&5 upgraded cost is 13k gold, 10 crystal, 10 ore and 20 wood together. This isn't very much and it gives Rampart the kick start, which other towns can just dream about. You will be plundering Pandora Boxes from hordes of Gorgons in second week while your opponent is chuffed because he has finished lvl 7 unit dwelling - which would die from a single Sharpshooters' stack shot anyway.
But if Sentinels costed gems, I would have to think: do I want sentinels and pay gems for imba slow, or do I want lvl 6 dwelling to have Dragons faster?
Rampart is now all about killing off enemy shooters (if any) in first turn while slowing all melee units into 2-4 speed then beating off everything without any loses because you have three turns before their units reach you.
Your mod is awesome, you do a wonderful piece of work, Hero of Light, but there won't be "let the best win" until there is some kind of balance.
That's all for now, If you liked my post and are interested in me finding more imbalanced things, just let me know in a reply.
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Hero_Of_Light
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 21, 2012 06:51 PM |
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I see you've done your homework although I must admit I don't like your tone much.
But anyway, it seems to me that the balance issue is a matter of opinion. If you read through the pages of this thread you will see some posts like: "tower is over powerful", "Conflux is over powerful" etc. If you combine all of them you'll get the notion that ALL towns are over-powered and so the mod is in balance
Please also note that even the original Heroes III town lineups where imbalanced (Castle and Necropolis, not to mention the Armageddon-happy Conflux). That's because balancing a game as complex as Heroes III is not just difficult, it is impossible. You change one little aspect of a town and its dynamics are drastically altered.
Take Rampart for instance. As you might have seen in this thread a few posts before, your mentioned "imbalances" (Drakelings and Sentinels) will be changed in HoLv3.22:
The Hierophants that replace the Sentinels no longer cast slow. However, they have receptive spell immunity which might be proven an even bigger bonus (at times). Also, the Drakelings were changed with the Paladins. Of course I had to change the Unicorn damage to have them be more competitive with their new interchangeable creatures.
I would advice you not to be too eager to rule out any creature in my mod. I made the interchangeable creatures to have the ability to change back and forth for a reason. There were many times that I would wish to have the Dendroids instead of the Sentinels. Don't forget they have double hp! For instance what would you prefer when attacking a Dragon Utopia? The Sentinels who wouldn't have a change to attack at all (and the slow would be useless), or the Dendroids that will endure the Dragon's attack better? That's the brilliance of the interchangeable units really. To use both of their abilities to the maximum of their potentials.
If you asked me it isn't Rampart that is the superpower of my mod. I think I kept Castle and Necropolis the superpowers of Heroes (respecting the creators wishes I guess). Take Skeleton Magi for instance. Isn't that a really great advantage for the start of the game? And in HoLv3.2 Castle can have a massive cannon in week two to wreak havoc in the weak creatures nearby. As a matter of fact, I can mention such examples for all the towns. Fortress starts with two shooters (and the third upgrade of Lizards is really a powerful asset). Dungeon's Warlocks start with Rogues (spying). Isn't that a great head start as well? The list goes on and on.
Conclusively, I assure you that balance issues have been reviewed by me again and again and (if you'd allow me a little pun here) my suggestion to you BalanceFanatic, is to lessen your fanaticism about the balances
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BalanceFanatic
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 21, 2012 08:05 PM |
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I didn't mean to write that post in aggresive way.
Sorry if you felt attacked. I see my doubts in your sense of balance were really unnecessary, the upcoming changes are really well thought.  I just want to share my thoughts and see what is your opinion about them.
On the other hand, is there a chance you would make jousting bonus stronger? It always seemed neglible when compared to massive jousting bonus Champions had in e.g. Heroes IV.
I also fought with Bishops today. Several stacks of them performing mass Prayer on every attack wasn't too much of a pleasuring experience. Is there a way to make them cast mass Prayer like Enchanters or only when there's at least 1 not blessed stack?
And last thing I'd like to say, Salamander looks quite too powerful compared to Gorgon. It has more attack, defense (including the Stone Skin bonus) damage, speed, just 10 hp less. The 100% defense reduction along with breath attack outranks Death Stare. When attacking target with 30 more defense than agressor's attack, Salamander will do over 3 times more damage than Gorgon, not counting Death Stare bonus. Is this already changed or what do you plan to do with this? The weekly growth of Salamanders deals about 2/3 damage of Ancient Behemoth. It's a bit too much for me.
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Hero_Of_Light
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 21, 2012 08:11 PM |
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Well, jousting bonus is as it is, the formula is hardcoded I think.
As for the bishop's prayer, I know that it may be proven a nuisance most of the times but I don't know of a way to have them cast it every three rounds for instance. It's not a bad idea, I had it myself, but I don't know how that could be possible.
As for the Salamanders I am aware of that as well. As I said, balancing is somewhat impossible. I will reduce their damage in the next update.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 21, 2012 08:22 PM |
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Slayer
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 22, 2012 12:58 AM |
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(Since we're talking about balance)
I was playing a lot of Impossible Difficulty random maps with 1v4v3, and while doing that I only found that Champions were pretty overpowered, for example, at the moment the Cavalier Building requires
The Tier 4 Swordman building and the Stables building, both of which you would want to quickly grab as is.
My idea was the Champions building (Upg) could also require the Upgraded Monk building and the upgraded building to give Milita, the reason for this is mostly is to slow down the rate of being able to get Upgraded Champions early on, for example in very early game I can do something like this atm,
W2 D1,
Even on Impossible without First Money its easy to grab 6-8 Champions by this point in the game, if this is used with the Prayer Specialty from that one hero the unit can hit corner to corner, for 300% of normal damage, being capable of kill 50 demons with a single strike, And if the player was able to grab water magic they can repeatedly use Cure to keep any Champions from dieing in tough fights,
Suggestion: Reduce Jousting Bonus
(Other then that what you said Hero of Light all races are OP in their own way! Just being creative and use more spells,)
(Teleport on Hell Hydras, Prayer on Arch Devils to solo many adds,Force Field in combo with a tanking unit and high ranged, the list is pretty long.)
If that gets reduced then this mod is quite definetley pretty decently balanced!
(Looking forwards to that Hierophant and Paladin, but will the current Hierophant be removed?)
(Btw, this isnt a balance problem but I found it pretty epic, getting Catherine and Gelu as starting heroes on a 1v7, and 2 nearby Castles with Fort within 3rd Week.)
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This thread is pages long: 
