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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: RMG or Editor?
Thread: RMG or Editor? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted January 25, 2011 06:10 PM

Quote:
In H5 both the editor and RMG were bad if what I've heard here are anything to go by, and while you can use an editor to correct a not-in-game generated map that may have a few errors, without an editor...


To clarify, the homm5 map editor wasn't bad, it was just difficult to use.  Maps that are superior to the ones that come with the game could be created with it.

As someone who enjoyed making Homm5 maps, I honestly have to say I'd prefer a quality RMG instead (if I had to choose).  There is seldom a downloaded map that I thought was good, and I love to play homm either multiplayer or "quick pickup" on a Saturday morning, etc.  

I'm still very disappointed that there will only be 10 maps with the game.  And I bet several of those maps will either have capped towns, only 2 players, or some lame objective like "you have 2 weeks to capture such-and-such town."  That leaves about 5 real maps to play, which will get old fast.  The best way to mitigate that is to have a quality RMG.  The Homm5 RMG was flat, predictable, and awful


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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted January 25, 2011 06:40 PM

For me, it's Editor over RMG the whole way, if necessary. RMG helps greatly with casual play, but some truly amazing maps can come out of the Editor, and having an editor also allows for guaranteed balanced competitive maps.
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Mike80D
Mike80D


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted January 26, 2011 05:21 PM

I realize that we're not scheduled to get a RMG, but are they considering it?  

If it were up to me I'd prefer a RMG with the game, then get a map editor 6-months down the road.  

It'll be a shame if they don't make a RMG b/c I recall some fans making (for free) a better RMG than the one in the game.  If they can do that, then I have to imagine that the developers can somewhat easily come up with a quality RMG if they wanted to.

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Sherekhaan
Sherekhaan


Adventuring Hero
posted January 27, 2011 04:21 AM

RMG for me.

Sure there are great maps for Heroes 3, but I tried to download maps for Heroes 5 and the interface sucked. So did the maps except for 1 or 2, and then they weren't the sort with high replayability.

Heroes 5 RMG was better than a lot of fan maps I tried and if it had been tweaked in only a few small ways would have been awesome.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 27, 2011 04:40 AM

I don't like RMGs overmuch, the last time I used one in H3 it plonked down 3 windmills in a 10*5 space, right next to my main town, that sort of thing really kills enthusiasm, or at least it did for me. Of course, maybe the could write a good one sooner or later, but in all honesty, Until it's got a dozen commendations I'll stick to either making my own maps or using other peoples'.

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted January 27, 2011 08:14 AM

Quote:
The problem i have with custom made maps is that they create maps according to the mapmakers preference. I eventually gave up on searching for maps for h5 because quite frankly i couldn't find any i was interested in.

Indeed. Maps4heroes is full of small multiplayer maps with a little content and lot of huge, plain empty maps which are actually imabalanced and unplayable. I could hardly find a good epic scenario or huge, rich multiplayer which didn't die due to AI flaw.

Also, it's suprising that there are so little scripted maps, yet Lua is much easier than ERM (but not as easy as H4 wizard). In the end, we can't really count on community here. ToH is all we have.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted January 27, 2011 09:54 AM
Edited by Zenofex at 09:55, 27 Jan 2011.

Well, everybody's preference of the Editor over the RMG is based on the assumption that there will be good custom-made maps. The fact that the reality is quite different and that no more than 1% of the non-S-or-M-sized maps are worth anything doesn't seem to bother them. But the Editor is so cool you know...
What bothers me even more is that many people seem to have bitten Ubisoft's advertisement that the new Map Editor will be very good. How do you know, ladies and gentlemen? This is what they say, but frankly haven't they or basically any other marketing department in the industry lied to us before? Eh? No? Go make some reality check then. I prefer to be sceptical to the end and to say that the Editor is an integral part of the game just like a freakin' GUI (graphics user interface) and the discussion whether it should or should not be in the game is ridiculous. When it is opposed to something else, like the RMG, it becomes even more ridiculous.

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted January 27, 2011 11:43 AM

Quote:
What bothers me even more is that many people seem to have bitten Ubisoft's advertisement that the new Map Editor will be very good. How do you know, ladies and gentlemen?


I understand what you mean but I'm giving this new "duo" the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully it will not be a mistake.

<IMO> I think there was a conflict of vision/expectation between UBI and Nival (just guessing from things I've read over time) and I'm hoping as much as anything that UBI and BH are now far better in step with the fans (and with each other) and much of what has been shared and well explained here and at other sites has been received. It IS in their own best interests too, after all. Time will tell.  

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belgarath21
belgarath21

Tavern Dweller
posted January 29, 2011 08:55 PM

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum.

I personally always play single player and I think a map editor would be most useful since (if it works properly) it would allow for complete customization of the map.

I view an RMG as a way to speed up the map making process (i.e. you make an RMG and then tweak it with the editor)

Note, that the most important thing is how well the editor and/or RMG actually works and incorporates the various patches and expansions.

I had many hours of frustration trying to use the HOMM V map editor and RMG, before I finally gave up and tossed my copy of the game.

Just a few thoughts.

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belgarath21
belgarath21

Tavern Dweller
posted January 29, 2011 09:04 PM

Hi,

Does the 2 red stars under my nickname mean I did something wrong? If so I apologize and would appreciate some feedback about it.

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yasmiel
yasmiel


Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
posted January 29, 2011 11:45 PM
Edited by yasmiel at 04:08, 30 Jan 2011.

2 red stars is default reputation. Don't worry about it.

Regarding OP question - I personally prefer map editor. There is plenty of good fan made maps, both for SP and MP.

But, why choose, good heroes game needs to have both.

Edit: After seeing screen-shots from current version of the editor, things are getting interesting. Possible to put 12?! players on a single map!

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted January 30, 2011 09:28 AM

12 may be overkill, but some people proposed it as VCMI feature so maybe that's not so silly.
I'm much more interested about option to randomize landscape objects, so map will look different every time. Also, tools seem to support object placing very well, so at least decoration design should take less time.
Assuming this game will be playable at all, that is.
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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted February 03, 2011 06:19 PM

I reinstalled H5 TotE today and remembering this argument we had here and how like Editor supporters said the user made maps were better. So I went to maps4heroes (any other site there?), to get a good map to play on. For about one hour, I was searching for maps and I found not one single map that was any good or meet my requirements.  

Then I generated a random map and played all I wanted.

Too bad I won't be able to do that in H6.
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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted February 04, 2011 02:12 AM

I quite enjoy The Forgotten Kingdoms of Elrath.  That map at least lets me build my hero almost to the point that I want.  Of course, that's about it...

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Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted February 04, 2011 06:05 AM

Quote:
I reinstalled H5 TotE today and remembering this argument we had here and how like Editor supporters said the user made maps were better. So I went to maps4heroes (any other site there?), to get a good map to play on. For about one hour, I was searching for maps and I found not one single map that was any good or meet my requirements.


And what were the requirements exactly?

I'm currently playing Mike80D's map here. Haven't gone far, but as he promised, it's challenging from the beginning (day 1). Story-wise it's also excellent. Imo, I wouldn't get as much well-designed challenge as this map with RMG.
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted February 04, 2011 09:05 AM
Edited by kodial79 at 09:49, 05 Feb 2011.

Quote:

And what were the requirements exactly?

I'm currently playing Mike80D's map here. Haven't gone far, but as he promised, it's challenging from the beginning (day 1). Story-wise it's also excellent. Imo, I wouldn't get as much well-designed challenge as this map with RMG.


*Impossible size
*8 human players and random towns
*FFA Kill em all victory conditions
*Big underground with towns, not just a few tunnels here and there
*No sea
*No mods changing anything in the gameplay or lore, such as the names of the heroes etc.
*No comments saying it's crashing or not saving
*Dragon Utopia, Artifact Merchant, Memory Mentor must be included!

EDIT: Noone? I thought as much...



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Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted February 05, 2011 09:38 AM

Suffice to conclude you can have anything you want with an RMG (a good one, that is), though in the end it will be a casual play. A well thought out and well designed map can bring challenge and like I said earlier, can be a good source of learning/improvement. It all depends on what one wants. I myself always enjoy good scripts and welcome modded characters/creatures. Otoh hard to think I would want 8 human players on 1 map.
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted February 05, 2011 09:41 AM

Quote:
Suffice to conclude you can have anything you want with an RMG (a good one, that is), though in the end it will be a casual play. A well thought out and well designed map can bring challenge and like I said earlier, can be a good source of learning/improvement. It all depends on what one wants. I myself always enjoy good scripts and welcome modded characters/creatures. Otoh hard to think I would want 8 human players on 1 map.


Well, show me then to one good fan made map that meets my requirements? Maps4Heroes does not have any.

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Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted February 05, 2011 10:05 AM

You missed my point. There CAN'T be a map that would meet a set of individual requirements including the one you're after. I don't think there will be any map-maker who would produce a map for 8 human players (at least I've never seen one), who are going to play? So yes, you can create any map you want with an RMG, and your definition about challenge might be different from mine, but imo in the end you'd get none but a casual play.

Now compare to Mike80D's I mentioned above. Challenge was brought upon day one. I tried and I was crushed, then I restarted. Voila! Finally I learnt "this is how you should play Dungeon in this circumstance." This is the kind of map I enjoy that I doubt an RMG can generate.

Hence I see this thread converges to a conclusion as I mentioned that preference on RMG/Editor depends on one's playing style. So if the vote shows Editor weighs more than RMG, it means nothing but I share similar style with most members of the community. What you said before that "the mass" outside HC prefers RMG (or in my words, "casual play") may be true. So be it. I don't have the statistics either to support or otherwise.
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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted February 05, 2011 10:15 AM
Edited by Warmonger at 10:26, 05 Feb 2011.

Quote:
I don't think there will be any map-maker who would produce a map for 8 human players

They produce them all the time, but H5 set is rather unplayable here.
8 human players mean eight equal competitors (free for all), not actually eight living people in multiplayer mode
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