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| Thread: The perfect villain |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 24, 2011 10:11 AM |
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Hatred for a villain is not a qualifying trait, in fact, to me, often it is quite the opposite.
I generally adore a good villain, one that truly makes anything he comes in contact with more interesting.
Example, for anime fans out there, I HATE AIZEN (from Bleach), because he is boring as sin, he's an incredibly boring villain who's mere existance within the narritive drags it down. Aizen is just power, that's it, he tries to come across as clever but as far as you could call his scheme a scheme, it's a Batman Gambit. (I.E. his entire plan falls to pieces if somebody behaves in a perfectly sensible way he did not predict.)
While for example I absolutely love GLADOS from Portal, because she is an interesting pressense who makes you laugh yet tries to murder you. (and is quite good at it too, she does give you a feeling of threat.)
Whilst it's perfectly acceptable to truly hate a good villain, hatred itself for the character I would say is not a qualifying trait.
Old school villain who's both very effective and very hatable is Porky from the Earthbound games, he can truly make your blood boil.
A good villain brings something to the narritive, is a crucial and interesting part of the story.
To bring up Porky again, it's arguable the story revolves around him more then the protagonist, his pressence is seen and felt throughout the games he stars in.
At this point, I feel Michael could be a good villain, but right now I just hate him for clogging up the news, and if the clogs up the narritive, I'll hate him more, but that doesn't make him a good villain.
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yaeliccc
Known Hero
Undead, but warm and fuzzy
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posted April 24, 2011 10:42 AM |
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Edited by yaeliccc at 10:43, 24 Apr 2011.
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Dear mister Dragon,
A joke is a question, short story, or depiction of a situation made with the intent of being humorous. To achieve this end, jokes may employ irony, sarcasm, word play and other devices. Jokes may have a punchline that will end the sentence to make it humorous.
hope this makes my previous post clear enough 
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 24, 2011 10:44 AM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 10:46, 24 Apr 2011.
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Yeah, you're right, that obviously wasn't serious.
Still I felt it's something that needed to be adressed, pardon for doing it in reply to your joke.
But note that written text translates humour very poorly, what is obviously a joke when spoken can be taken very seriously by people when written down.
Not that that was the case in this specific situation.
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted April 24, 2011 10:50 AM |
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Yup silent villains are the best. (DIABLO!)
But on the other hand, really talkative villains are also awesome.
I think Heroes 6 need someone with charisma.
PS. you can't kill the messiah.
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 24, 2011 07:19 PM |
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Maybe a duche character who has backstory, intelligence and charisma?
Like this guy?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 24, 2011 11:27 PM |
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what, a girly man with an over compensatory sword?
what makes a good villian isn't as cut and dry as a simple formula. alot of atmosphere and presence has to be built before hand, or it could be a simple speech to make their villiany effective. there are two many variables.
admittedly, yes, the demons being linked into the eclipse is a stupid idea, as it means that, like Zenofex said, they seem more like bullies than villians. but just because they have a certain time of the month problem doesn't make them necessarily bad villians. it's all about presence and power.
to be honest, I think the reason why the demons are so weak as villians is that they are riddled with the fire and brimstone cliche which every demon is doing from here to warcraft. maybe changing it up for a change.
as for what makes a good villian... well, let me give some examples of who I think are good villians.
the Joker from DC comics (and the Dark knight, though I like the original more for personal reason)
Lex Luthor from DC comics
Darkseid from DC comics (particularly in Final Crisis where he really gets his sh*t on)
The Chaos gods from Warhammer and Warhammer 40k
Yawgmoth of phyrexia
The Daleks from Doctor who tv series
The Major from hellsing manga and anime
the World Government from One piece manga and anime
Freddy from nightmare on elm street (original) films
Magneto from Marvel comics
some of these villians are good because of the fact they are powerful, some because they are sympathetic. but for all of them, there is just one moment, one clinching moment where they stop being generic and actually start being awesome villians.
for some it's a speech:
the Major from Hellsing, who gave a 6+ minute speech about how he loved war that is chilling and awesome at the same time
see here
alternatively, Darkseid gave a terrifying speech over how he now had complete dominion over earth with half the worlds population under his direct control.
Quote:
"I. Am. The. New. God. All is one in Darkseid. This mighty body is my church. When I command your surrender, I speak with three billion voices. When I make a fist to crush your resistance. It is with three billion hands. When I stare into your eyes and shatter your dreams. And break your heart. It is with six billion eyes. Nothing like Darkseid has ever come among you; nothing will again. I will take you to a hell without exit or end. And there I will murder your souls! And make you crawl and beg! And die! Die! DIE FOR DARKSEID!
alternatively alternatively, and much in the same vain, Phyrexia and all it's horrific flesh-metal nightmares.
have fun
For some, it is a simple saying:
the Daleks are one, always coming back and always returning with one goal in mind, and their catchphrase in tow.
sorry, wrong one
bit better
for some, it is a simple action, like the jokers smile or his laugh, so iconic is this that it makes the villian all the more threatening.
see for yourself
for some, like the world government and magneto, it is their pure motivation and their desire to do good whilst, at the same time, doing horrific actions at the same time to ensure it.
and for others it is simply presence, knowing that they are always out there, waiting for something to happen, plotting away.
there is a moment, a single moment where a villian stops being generic and fleshs out a character of his own to become truly iconic. speeches, sayings, actions, motivations or simple presence, it makes a villian interesting.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted April 24, 2011 11:48 PM |
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I think Drawing inspiration from nerd culture that isn't related to gaming is a bad idea for making a video game villain. Also, there's nothing wrong with cliché in the post-modern era. 
EDIT: despite all my rage, I'mm still just a nerd in a cage.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 24, 2011 11:54 PM |
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The moment you mentioned speeches I knew you were going to mention the major  That one was something else.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted April 25, 2011 12:08 AM |
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I posted a picture of Kane and people are seriously bothering to talk about other villians.
Geez... what is wrong with you guys??
Seriously though, if they want a simple way of making the demons more interesting. They just need to add other evil elements.
Some that could be siding with demons, that laters led to backstabbings on all sides and fronts.
I mean practicly all factions could have evil elements. Humans seeking purification, Wizards seeking to enslave everyone and just power hungry Dark Elfs.
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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PeterFarkas
Adventuring Hero
LeBronTosaurus
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posted April 25, 2011 12:09 AM |
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IMO the best villain is a hero. I mean seriously, sometimes the greatest enemy of someone is himself. And that is always a critical point.
At least, any villain should have some motivation or incentive of the actions made, it shouldn't hang out in open, thick air.
Some charisma is always welcome (Joker is a great example for this) but not necessary, as I remember Magneto was voted the best comic (or maybe just Marvel) villain of all time. Well, he doesn't have much charm but reasons of his actions, connections and conflicts. A villain should be sometimes vulnerable as well (not too much ofc)
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"The one who makes most mistakes often loses"  - Elvin
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 25, 2011 08:43 AM |
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Quote:
At least, any villain should have some motivation or incentive of the actions made, it shouldn't hang out in open, thick air.
posssibly, though some villians are even worse when they are just doing stuff because they can, because they have no motivation that makes them more scary, some times. it doesn't work on a demonic racial level, however, and is more likely to work on individual human levels.
Quote:
Some charisma is always welcome (Joker is a great example for this) but not necessary, as I remember Magneto was voted the best comic (or maybe just Marvel) villain of all time. Well, he doesn't have much charm but reasons of his actions, connections and conflicts. A villain should be sometimes vulnerable as well (not too much ofc)
I think the reason why Magneto won and why he is such a popular villian is not necessarily because of his good intentions or his vulnerablity...
[url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2709-Magneto-Was-Right]it's more about identification.[/url]
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted April 25, 2011 09:52 AM |
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Quote:
The perfect villain
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Bombur
Known Hero
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posted April 25, 2011 11:46 AM |
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You forgot one type of villain.
The betrayer type. It may be one who would help his comrades and suddenly be dealt a gruesome blow to both his mind or body and see things with other eyes. Or may be bribed, or manipulated by the Evil Mastermind like Anakin was by the Emperor and became Darth Vader.
Although in the end he did turn good again
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Gibblets
Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
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posted April 25, 2011 12:50 PM |
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There are so many great ways to compose a story considering the variety of ways there are to present a cast of characters. A TBS game doesn't need traditional villians. Characters can have many shades of grey, compare Superman to Wolverine and you'll know what I'm talking about.
IMHO -A Wolverinesque character would be a great fit for the Barbarian faction.
-A Byronic hero would be great as a Necromancer(Claude Frollo, The Hunchback of Notre-Dame).
-Anti-Hero for the Demons(Spawn).
-A set of False Protagonists overlaid with a story of Victory Disease would suit the Haven Campaign(political intrigue).
-Maybe I'm being a bit obscure but a Solipsist would be great for a wizard team.
-I think a few false heroes could be a good mix for the Sanctuary faction.
A bit of reference so we're all on the same page.
Vitory Disease - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_disease
Solipsism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism
False Heroes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_hero ,
False Protagonists - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_protagonist, Anti-Heroes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-hero,
Byronic Hero - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byronic_hero
Hamartia (Alan Wake) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamartia
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