|
| Thread: French Presidential Race Rocked |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
posted May 17, 2011 12:42 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Normal people have some large illusion that the media will behave and report the truth.
You mean like the head of the IMF being prosecuted for rape charges? Are you saying he's not actually being taken to court?
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 01:07 PM |
|
Edited by shyranis at 13:32, 17 May 2011.
|
Sadly, there is a tendancy in news to report people as guilty until proven innocent. It makes for higher ratings to espouse hate for people that might not even have done anything.
Edit:
Oh, and Elodin, homeless people also less likely to have identification. Most states absolutely require picture ID. At least here you can get a homeless shelter or priest to write and submit affidavits vouching for homeless people. Heck, some people with homes don't even have photo ID.
Plus there are laws in many states that have through the years stopped people who had commited felonies (or had a similar name to somebody who did) at some point in their life from voting. Is it really fair to punish somebody at 50 for a crime they committed at 17? 4? After they served their debt to society?
____________
Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
|
|
blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 01:15 PM |
|
|
He's been reported as guilty?
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 01:35 PM |
|
Edited by shyranis at 13:38, 17 May 2011.
|
Some news organizations are a little more blatant in trying to drum up pointless controversy. (Other examples are out there for other news organizations, just that's the easiest example to find)
____________
Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 01:43 PM |
|
|
Quote:
A rape kit
I think I just found out what I want for my next birthday.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 01:53 PM |
|
|
@shy:
The usual tactics. Divert the issue with a straw man.
Has he been reported as guilty or hasn't he? He's been prosecuted for rape and, thankfully, media outlets are reporting on it, which is 110% okay.
Some claim that the media should unethically deprive people of this knowledge because the story alone will damage Strauss-Kahn's reputation even if it all works out in the end, however I think there are several weaknesses to this thinking:
1. We may have become spoiled to the reality of modern media being so pervasive for the past century that we have forgotten the benefit of having it in such force. SK is a powerful man with powerful connections that could potentially wiggle himself out of trouble. Such corruption happened far more often in the past, which is why it is fortunate that political cases like these are now thrown into the public spotlight with hundreds of journalists poised like hawks. This is a good thing and I hope we never devolve away from it, as some would wish.
2. I think many underestimate how much his reputation could recover if his innocence is maintained. The media works both ways.
3. If this is a scam (which to me seems extremely doubtful because the woman's account is too ****ing dumb to be a scam. Was it planned by a bunch of inbreeds?) and it is shown to be a scam, his reputation will recover and then some. He'll made into a hero, and if the people that set up the scam are tracked? Complete ownage.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 03:35 PM |
|
Edited by Corribus at 15:44, 17 May 2011.
|
Quote:
Sadly, there is a tendancy in news to report people as guilty until proven innocent.
Unfortunately, we live in an age now where even an allegation of misconduct - particularly by a woman against a man - is enough to destroy a person. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. All a woman or kid has to do is say a man tried to rape her or molest her, and his career and life are basically over, even if there's not a scrap of evidence. When it comes to sexual crimes, men are presumed guilty until proven innocent.
I mean, even in this case with the French dude. As far as we know the only evidence to go by is the maid's word, and yet her mere claim has ended his career and got him sitting in jail. What ever happened to Due Process?
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 04:34 PM |
|
|
@shy
Has a loony-tunes network said he is guilty? FOX has been fair and balanced, as always. They opened with the word "allegations" and gave reactions from different perspectives. He is entitled to a legal presumption of innocence but the evidence is not looking good for his case.
Quote:
PARIS – Allegations of sexual assault .....
...
In cafes and outdoor markets, French voters shared that disbelief.
For some, the arrest spells the end of the prominent Socialist's presidential ambitions and even his political career. Others cautioned that it's too early to judge a man who denies wrongdoing. Still others sniffed a plot to blacken his name just as France's presidential campaign heats up for the April 2012 first-round vote.
Yes, it is fair that convicted felons can't vote. No, I've proven homeless people can vote and actually they can get state issued ID cards for the states that require IDs to vote.
If you want to continue to discuss who is and is not allowed to vote in the US please start a different topic.
|
|
DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 04:38 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Has a loony-tunes network said he is guilty? FOX has been fair and balanced, as always.
I agree. We shouldn't doubt elodin over this, okay? He has provided decent sources and, as always, he is the balanced and honest voice of neutrality.
____________
If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 04:43 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Unfortunately, we live in an age now where even an allegation of misconduct - particularly by a woman against a man - is enough to destroy a person. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. All a woman or kid has to do is say a man tried to rape her or molest her, and his career and life are basically over, even if there's not a scrap of evidence. When it comes to sexual crimes, men are presumed guilty until proven innocent.
I mean, even in this case with the French dude. As far as we know the only evidence to go by is the maid's word, and yet her mere claim has ended his career and got him sitting in jail. What ever happened to Due Process?
Exactly. Sadly, the whole "justice" thing is becoming more and more of a farce.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 04:49 PM |
|
|
Or it's more that humans themselves are judgemental?
(though, the legal fees in that article are just ridiculous)
____________
If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
|
|
bLiZzArdbOY
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 04:51 PM |
|
|
If the woman is lying she can (and probably will) be sued and can face charges herself. It's unfortunate what the long-term repercussions of this may be for him, but he's a politician and putting up with **** is part of his job description, and the alternative of keeping allegations like this wrapped up and handled privately is, in my mind, absolutely unacceptable for reasons that I previously stated.
Denying bail makes this an uncomfortable situation, but remember that Strauss-Kahn isn't a national. That means if you have him, keep hold of him, or you might find him taking the next flight to Paris and getting a "trial" there.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 04:58 PM |
|
|
Compare the effect of a trial on the maid's career and on this guy's career. If things don't get straightened out fast, if he's actually innocent - he's ruined. The maid - if this was just a lie - obviously didn't do that herself and the money she got will more than compensate for this.
If this isn't a lie though - I can't really imagine a guy that just jumps a first female he sees in his room and attempts rape, keeping in mind that he is obviously aware of consequences. One has to be wrong in the head.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
bLiZzArdbOY
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 05:05 PM |
|
|
You see, I think the huge attention SK is getting has a lot of potential to ultimately benefit him if it turns out to be underhanded bribery by his political opposition back home.
When some average man gets falsely accused, he's more likely to be unjustly ****ed for the rest of his miserable natural life, because it's a big deal when he gets accused and tried, and if the judging is repealed later on, it's just a bleep that receives little attention. That wouldn't be the case with Genghis Strauss-Kahn; it would likely erupt into an even bigger story than it is now. It has enormous potential to backfire and turn him into sort of a martyr figure (even though he didn't actually die).
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 05:07 PM |
|
|
I'd say the chance of it ruining his life is much bigger (assuming he's innocent).
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 05:08 PM |
|
|
I am not psychoanalyst, but I am worried about him, something really could happen, maybe less than reported, but still something. I mean, let's take John Doe who is sitting in a plane quietly, and suddenly being imprisoned for a rape he did not do.
What would be the first reaction of a normal person in that case? Cry for a plot or machination. Endlessly. But he does not that, and his lawyers neither. They say he is innocent but his attitude is strange, looks like giving up. But maybe he knows how justice works better than me.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
bLiZzArdbOY
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 05:15 PM |
|
|
He's not a normal person.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 05:21 PM |
|
|
Quote:
If the woman is lying she can (and probably will) be sued and can face charges herself. It's unfortunate what the long-term repercussions of this may be for him, but he's a politician and putting up with **** is part of his job description, and the alternative of keeping allegations like this wrapped up and handled privately is, in my mind, absolutely unacceptable for reasons that I previously stated.
Totally disagree with this whole statement.
(1) Yeah, you can sue, but the damage is most of the time already done and can't in any case be nearly compensated by a lawsuit. Especially against someone who probably doesn't have the money to pay in any case. Also, it takes more time and money to sue.
(2) This doesn't just happen to politicians. See the article I linked above. This happens to "normal people" that don't have the money to hire hot-shot lawyers. I'm looking at the bigger picture.
(3) Even in the case of politicians, just because you're rich and famous doesn't mean you shouldn't have legal rights. Getting your legal rights tossed away shouldn't be considered part of any job description.
(4) Back in the "old days", someone's word was enough to get you thrown in a dungeon or worse. I thought we had evolved beyond that. But apparently not, not when alleged sexual misconduct is concerned.
As a male, I just don't like the idea that someone could vindictively say I touched them (or their child) inappropriately and then my life is over. I don't like how men are guilty until proven innocent whenever it comes to sexual misconduct. That's all I'm saying.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 05:30 PM |
|
|
Quote:
That wouldn't be the case with Genghis Strauss-Kahn; it would likely erupt into an even bigger story than it is now. It has enormous potential to backfire and turn him into sort of a martyr figure (even though he didn't actually die).
I don 't think so, we have M. Jackson example. The court ruined his life and shortly he even died, and I am sure it is related to the psychological wounds from it. Maybe it works on poor men, without resources and easily triggering compassion, but certainly not with super rich archi millionaire guys living on another planet, even more when we know they had often prove misconduct, as it is DSK case. Whatever is the issue, he is done and destroyed. Once again, the power of medias is lethal.
Just look how our uber compassionate poster Elodin is happy to bring more and more arguments to put him on knees. That's the reaction of the public, often.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
bLiZzArdbOY
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted May 17, 2011 05:32 PM |
|
|
It's not entirely in the court's control to mitigate the repercussions of being falsely accused of sexual misconduct. That's more of a problem with society at large being judgmental. Many women have a "girlpower" prejudice, and many men have a "white knight" prejudice, which put men in a discriminated position when it comes to these sort of accusations.
I approve of SK being denied bail. It's a special situation with him not being a national. I absolutely do not want him going back to France's jurisdiction.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
|
|
