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| Thread: Heroes 5.5 - Eternal Essence - New Factions |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted June 07, 2011 12:01 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 12:05, 07 Jun 2011.
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@Baron,
I like your passion, and you have some great ideas but I want to share a couple of semi-eval thoughts about the following;
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from Cepheus
...the Sanctuary (Nagas / Fortress successor) would be a great target for the first additional race since assets are already available (and being developed) for it.
Since the H6 Sanctuary has no classic Fortress creatures, which disappointed everybody , would be nice to include the Basilisk and animate the Lizardman if a H5 iteration is made.
Two points to not quickly overlook;
1. <imo> If we CAN use something that exists already, and yet you Do add or tweak it and then we get something really good?
2. The latter statement was about; recently at HC, there was a fan's favorite-faction poll and surprisingly the missing Fortress faction from H5 was the winner. Now, I'm not saying that should decide but two birds with one stone doesn't sound bad
I'm set on zilch, I just think this stuff is a "pause and hmmm"
I "think" it most likely will be a blend of the old and new that is the best fit. I wish I remembered the existing storyline better, I guess I'll have to reread it all since it's been quite a while.
You said that you wanted the "time-line" to mesh with the H5? My first thought about that is a question; "What does a specific time set forth? It seems to me, the "time" you pin-point would dictate a "few" things from the get-go. Open regions, etc.
Keep up the good work, like wanting the map to be Canon.
@Q
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With an open non-linear campaign, we need to look for a better approach than carrying over the stats from the last mission.
Just want to share my cent and a half here; I know you are talking about "more than has yet been done" but one older aspect that I really like is the "playing of opposing forces" during the unfolding campaign. In H3AB, I remember thinking "why am I playing so and so? and being totally in the dark' to end up that my effort with that character...I had to fight in the end. Some angle like that I think would be good in the mix.
A Wild-thought; E.E.is a sort of tribute to HoMM? If we could find the reason or "transport" it may be fun to have a segment, where old heroes are a part in some way?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted June 07, 2011 12:24 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 12:43, 07 Jun 2011.
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@ Cepheus. I may be biased towards my own creation (OK, I definitely am) but my main opposition to the sanctuary idea is that we're not even sure where ubihole is taking it, and we won't be until h6 and its expansions have been completed both by the developers and the players, and that could be some time away.
I don't quite understand. I'm neither opposed to nor attacking your idea or imagination. But if we are going on a faction-creating spree it's logical, in terms of practicality, to begin with the town that has a leg-up in terms of fan anticipation, promotion, art and ready-made assets. Working within your means in other words, and then compounding that work with more ambitious faction designs. It's easier to attract workers to help with a town where we have copious reference images, and without workers higher imaginative concepts can't be realised. Aside from that, there is neither a water-elemental, water-based nor swamp-based race in H5. As far as I can see, the Bulwark is rooted in either earth or air.
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@Cepheus: can you confirm already it is possible to extract assets from H6 and import them in H5? (using archangel?)
I'm afraid I can't confirm that. Different formats as far as I know. I'm sure they could be converted with a new program, but at the moment it would probably also be illegal since there is no official statement yet from Ubi allowing H6 modding (unlike H5).
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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TheBaron
Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
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posted June 07, 2011 12:53 PM |
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Edited by TheBaron at 18:40, 07 Jun 2011.
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@magnomagus I'm on your side for the RPE skill set version. It could be tweaked (can't everything?), but it's by far the superior skill tree IMO. That being said I do like the skill wheel, because you can just glance at it and it's pretty.  sorry Magno...
@cepheus I must have misrepresented myself. I didn't mean to come across defensive because I certainly don't feel that way, I guess it's more that I'm trying to promote people to work on my idea than something else... so really I'm just being selfish.
I think you've got a really good point and I understand it better when you explained it again. In fact I think you're right, it probably would be easier, however I personally (I don't want to speak for anyone else, especially Q-wizard) would like to see EE as a completely original development of the game that doesn't rely on ubihole for its creative input. If this is supposed to be a statement  I can't see how we can make it when we're looking to the big guys and waiting for their scraps... and being satisfied with them! We have a possibility to make something new, for us, by us. Isn't that the point of an original expansion? Isn't there always going to be plenty of fans around to bring the H6 stuff in? Wouldn't it be nicer the other way around - to have the big guys look at our work at put it in their developments?
I'm sorry if I'm over-reacting. In the end I think you make a perfectly legitimate and considered point that may be the most prudent option in the end.
But heck, I'll make some new stuff anyway. I'm not going to be able to play H6 for a few years because I don't have the PC to do it and I'm poor, so I may as well try and refine what I got.
On that note, here's some characters... moved to first page.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 07, 2011 01:13 PM |
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Quote:
I'm afraid I can't confirm that. Different formats as far as I know. I'm sure they could be converted with a new program, but at the moment it would probably also be illegal since there is no official statement yet from Ubi allowing H6 modding (unlike H5).
I thought ubi was willing to make a step forward in the support of user-created content (although I understand that doesn't include moving assets between games). I actually thought the use of 2D town screens could enhance the possibility of fan made factions. Please tell me H6 at least has a map editor.
@TheBaron:
The following two statements are quite contradictive in reality:
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By the way I'm not saying I'm going to do all these things, I'm saying that these are things that will need to be done at some stage. I can do my best at creating a good narrative and some cool characters, but I think that's just about it.
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I think you've got a really good point and I understand it better when you explained it again. In fact I think you're right, it probably would be easier, however I personally (I don't want to speak for anyone else, especially Q-wizard) would like to see EE as a completely original development of the game that doesn't rely on ubihole for its creative input. If this is supposed to be a statement I can't see how we can make it when we're looking to the big guys and waiting for their scraps... and being satisfied with them! We have a possibility to make something new, for us, by us. Isn't that the point of an original expansion? Isn't there always going to be plenty of fans around to bring the H6 stuff in? Wouldn't it be nicer the other way around - to have the big guys look at our work at put it in their developments?
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MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ
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TheBaron
Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
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posted June 07, 2011 01:33 PM |
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Yes I see your point. I will rely on support if i want it to go ahead. I guess we'll see what happens!
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted June 07, 2011 02:19 PM |
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If this is supposed to be a statement I can't see how we can make it when we're looking to the big guys and waiting for their scraps... and being satisfied with them! We have a possibility to make something new, for us, by us
On the contrary, I think that is a bit of a false dilemma in that building from the Sanctuary hardly precludes us from creating something brand new after or coterminous to it. But you need to begin somewhere with a proof-of-concept and use what is available to you. Nobody has created any all-new models for H5 to date; to start the whole effort with an entirely new and unheard-of faction, with no original art, is a less feasible goal (to begin with) which would run the risk of enticing less help.
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We have a possibility to make something new, for us, by us. Isn't that the point of an original expansion?
Heroes V is over five hundred years after Heroes VI, so the Sanctuary would have changed (like every other faction) and hence practically would be new. Lots of freedom and room for new/different creatures, etc, while still having something to evolve and work from.
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Isn't there always going to be plenty of fans around to bring the H6 stuff in
There's nobody at all at the moment. 
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I thought ubi was willing to make a step forward in the support of user-created content (although I understand that doesn't include moving assets between games). I actually thought the use of 2D town screens could enhance the possibility of fan made factions. Please tell me H6 at least has a map editor.
There most certainly will be modding; I'm not saying otherwise. I'm just pointing out that they haven't made a statement at the moment, and of course the game isn't out either, so we can't experiment with model-swapping yet. And there is indeed a map editor.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 07, 2011 02:20 PM |
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that we would be letting ourselves down by putting our work in someone else's pigeon-hole. Indeed, we would be promoting someone else's work, rather than our own imaginations.
what is the problem with that? many modders made a very good job already. it isn't a problem of ego?
currently, some people are working on the fortress faction, maybe they could join :
link
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 07, 2011 02:58 PM |
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currently, some people are working on the fortress faction, maybe they could join :link
Impressive, they seem to have been able to replace the stronghold town hall with a temple.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 07, 2011 03:08 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 15:09, 07 Jun 2011.
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didn't even notice, but isn't it just an effect?
after all, I managed to do something similar to the egyptian town that is shown on the page 2, only with different building.
oh, you were talking about that screenshot? not a fortress one?
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 07, 2011 03:16 PM |
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I meant 1st page shagnakh
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TheBaron
Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
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posted June 07, 2011 03:38 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
that we would be letting ourselves down by putting our work in someone else's pigeon-hole. Indeed, we would be promoting someone else's work, rather than our own imaginations.
what is the problem with that? many modders made a very good job already. it isn't a problem of ego?
There's no problem at all with that, I respect and admire the work of those many modders. However we have an opportunity to create something more than a replica here. It's easy for me to say because I can't do any of the real work except writing, but I'm still going to say it. Something of our own creation that we can tie to the world that Quantomas has inspired should be part of the goal of EE. My vision of The People's campaign is that it is an intro into this new world of Eternal Essence, a new race with a new attitude for a new mechanic paradigm. If we want to incorporate the other factions, that is excellent and I'm all for it. The Hashiman Sanctuary didn't exist in H5, which could become a rediscovery narrative, but is that what we want to use for a brand new mode of play? Especially when their style will have been established in H6?
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Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
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posted June 07, 2011 04:57 PM |
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@TheBaron
Once more, you are right on track. Know, that I fully support your concept. 
We are going for the grand layout. Just imagine J.R.R. Tolkien tinkering with 3D models, saying yes this design looks cool, that skill is smart and so on. Do you really think, he would ever have gotten around to write his masterpiece LOTR? No, we are doing story first (keep the term story-centric in mind), it will make for a much richer game. Modelling and creature design will be the last step.
Read again, what I said about non-linearity, about a world map that serves as a vehicle to access all missions, random ones, custom maps and the unlocked campaign scenarios. If you click on a duchy you get a choice. It will accomodate all campaigns, the reenvisioned campaigns of the original game, the Shifter campaign and others as well, maybe one that introduces Sanctuary or a hidden Fortress. You will be able to advance opposing factions, and choose campaign scenarios from different time lines.
But again, let us produce a mature game, with a rich background story, factions that have distinct culture and lore.
Factions are just that. They don't necessarily need their own campaign, although it is cool. Once we have the mechanics to import new factions in EE, it will allow modders to create an incredible variety of races, all available in the game to choose from, for the player to further customize the playing experience.
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Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
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posted June 10, 2011 10:19 AM |
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The Coven would be a more interesting faction than the Shifters.Or maybe an Ylath/Shalassa faction since we have none.
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Quantomas
Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
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posted June 10, 2011 01:20 PM |
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Quote:
The Coven would be a more interesting faction than the Shifters.Or maybe an Ylath/Shalassa faction since we have none.
You don't actually know what TheBaron is up to.
We have to get rid of this habit to say this faction is better or more suitable. Feel free to introduce a similar story line, culture and lore as a campaign backdrop for the faction you favour and it has a good chance to become a part of the game.
Cepheus, I know you are extremely busy, would it be possible for you to write a short encouraging paragraph that explains what vision you have for the original campaign? How it can be revitalized and a part of this concurrent non-linear framework I have indicated. You are absolutely right calling it a false dilemma, I believe all these ideas can coexist perfectly as can the framework support multiple campaigns.
We have to get people to see the larger picture, and that working together can produce rich rewards.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted June 10, 2011 04:53 PM |
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@Lord_Immortal
Glad you brought that up. It reminded me, that I've wanted to give him a personal invitation to use that creativity of his
Hmmm, I also have another contact I need to make.
Thanks
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TheBaron
Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
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posted June 11, 2011 07:36 AM |
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Wow, that Coven faction is really well laid out! Did that guy do all the art as well? Solid effort!
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted June 11, 2011 04:56 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 16:59, 11 Jun 2011.
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Quote:
Did that guy do all the art as well?
I don't think so. Like your approach to your faction, I think in most, if not all, previous faction-ideas; existing-art has been used, to depict new ideas.
<imo> I think this a sound approach to give some idea for sharing a vision. My hope would be; If the ideas are well received, maybe then an artist will bring it to life. Up to this point I think all previous faction-ideas were about giving Ubi/BlackHole inspiration on H6 or just having some fun.
Edit: Ok recent work. Dream factions have been around probably nearly as long as HoMM.
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"Do your own research"
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 11, 2011 05:13 PM |
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I doubt blackhole needs inspiration. since the announcement of H6, the ideas of the fans haven't triggered any single changes in blackhole's line-ups.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted June 11, 2011 10:52 PM |
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I didn't create the art from scratch for my Coven faction, but I did photoshop it quite heavily to fit my vision.
I was asked to participate in helping you guys btw, but H5 is so limited in how it can be modded... really hard to be imaginative when most of the stuff that is created for it is -while very impressive- still very very restricted by the game itself.
Have you guys overcome these limitations somehow?
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 11, 2011 10:59 PM |
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