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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: Heroes 5.5 - Eternal Essence - New Factions
Thread: Heroes 5.5 - Eternal Essence - New Factions This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
posted June 25, 2011 02:28 PM

Actually,Psaktha created gnolls,so he can create even their upgrades and Lizardmen.On the contrary,Hydra dosen't looks so scary,so we definently need new models for her and the Wyvern.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 25, 2011 04:14 PM

why would you want 2 cities with hydras and wyverns?

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TheBaron
TheBaron


Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
posted June 27, 2011 11:08 AM

Update on first page! Hope people like it.

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted June 27, 2011 04:58 PM

Wow Baron, you've been busy!

Sorry I've not taken part as yet. I have been absolutely dedicated to working on the HoD template almost every waking minute of the last few weeks it seems.

After a quick glance, to be honest, with all of your work I'm "almost" afraid to say a thing

I will concentrate on what your doing and try to grasp the big picture and then hopefully be able to contribute something of value.

Awesome effort. Trust me, I know how hard it is to get rolling, when interaction levels are low, but you're RoC-king along

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TheBaron
TheBaron


Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
posted June 27, 2011 06:06 PM
Edited by TheBaron at 18:09, 27 Jun 2011.

@Markkur. Actually I've been very lazy! I'll felt so bad about doing so little in so long that I just sat down and devoted my day to the time-line and way of life bit.

Why are you afraid to say anything? I'd prefer you to contribute and criticise it rather just sit silent while I push something that everyone hates. I just hope that it's good enough. I really want to make and provide a mature base and context that can eventually become a mature script for a mature campaign for mature players... MATURE!

I'm just so sick of games writing to the lowest common denominator. I think that people will rise to meet any intellectual bar that is set for content, but the trick is not to make it pretentious or confusing. I guess that's just pseudo-intellectualism. Anyway, don't mind me I'm just having a bit of a rant now because it's late and I've been working on a computer game story all day.
Err I think just realised how much I've set myself up to fall in this. I should say that I want to write something that is not simple or boring, but it is more than possible that I will write trash.

In the next couple of days I want to concentrate on fleshing out the characters. I'm scared! Please let me know if anything is unclear or inconsistent!

EDIT: Actually next will be specific international relations. I want to get major task 1 as sorted as I can before I start working on characters and motivations.
____________
"My favorite" - Jean-
Baptiste Emmanuel Zorg.

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted June 27, 2011 06:49 PM
Edited by Quantomas at 18:49, 27 Jun 2011.

Wow, totally mindblowing indeed.  If one cares and delves deeper into the mystery you build, it becomes obvious that this is just the surface of a much more substantial story.

I will do my best that we will have one day the game mechanics ready to create a game as refined as the story, background and culture you imagine. The Eternal Essence will be the key, it will also allow us to create game mechanics at a refined level not witnessed in another game before.

One thing though regarding my vision for the Eternal Essence. Ultimately it comes from the sun, the light, and as such has filtered to the planets, into the atmosphere, the elements, the plants and the animals that eat plants. But the greatest gift to the people are those things that have been imbued by the light in its purest form, the highest fruits on the tree, the berries that riped in the sun or the flower on the top of the mountain.

What really is involved in the process of gaining Eternal Essence is awareness. Awareness of the light, and cultivated by a vegetarian diet. On the other hand, consuming animals and their substances is a game of light and shadow, in which the ignorance of an animal towards the spiritual component in the Eternal Essence manifests itself inseparably as a shadow that mars it. As such consuming animals is not desirable, but as the world is complex and mysterious, so are the ways of the people. Eating meat is the essence of an eternal struggle while absorbing the light through awareness and a vegetarian life style is a more direct route to the Eternal Essence.

Maybe it is possible to align these concepts. Animals and creatures can be quite diverse in respect to their awareness of the Eternal Essence, providing for an individual stance and inclination to be in harmony with it or not.

I will also reserve a special place and create a proper task for The People's story and campaign on the EE website, saying that you are in charge of this.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 27, 2011 09:16 PM

I'm looking from a gameplay point of view. can't say that everything looks perfectly balanced. lots of units have the leap ability (does that mean they have no flying units?)
undispellable mass slow? very nasty. I'm somewhat curious to see the yaga fort, actually, I think it could already be done, by using a castle model maybe, but currently, a 3x3 creature won't work, you can't put it on the battlefield, unless you have tactics

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TheBaron
TheBaron


Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
posted June 28, 2011 03:04 AM
Edited by TheBaron at 03:50, 28 Jun 2011.

Quote:
I'm looking from a gameplay point of view. can't say that everything looks perfectly balanced. lots of units have the leap ability (does that mean they have no flying units?)
undispellable mass slow? very nasty. I'm somewhat curious to see the yaga fort, actually, I think it could already be done, by using a castle model maybe, but currently, a 3x3 creature won't work, you can't put it on the battlefield, unless you have tactics


I had considered most of these issues, obviously not in great depth, but was waiting for responses before changing anything. I understood 3x3 creature thing wouldn't work without tactics, but it's such a cool idea don't you think? I would love to see huge units in the game, especially for the planned boss units. I guess I was just hoping that we might be able to get around the tactics roadblock through programming, however we could also just make it 3x2 and that should work (although I can imagine that facing direction/turning could pose an even greater challenge for an uneven unit). The only other large units are the trolls, so there would probably be enough room to place everything.

Yes, some of their skills I think are very nasty and perhaps overpowered. I suppose I was thinking that because they were magic poor like the orcs, but much weaker in terms of defense and HP, that they would need some serious speed enhancements. So most of their abilities are geared towards slowing the enemy and speeding themselves up. There is a lot of leap, but remember that leap has 2x retaliation damage as well as 2x attack. If you've got virtually no HP then spells and retaliations are things your really have to try and avoid. Armageddon could be the bane of this race.

I think that I also put some crazy bits in to stimulate criticism and discussion. How would you like the new faction to play? So long as you keep their abilities vaguely in line with the lore, we should be able to go anywhere with this. How do you like the Yaga hut idea (aside from the broken 3x3 problem) visa vi the ranged damage block -> that things can hide behind it?

The dhampir are the only flying unit I put in, through traditionally Baba Yaga flew around in a mortar and pestle (weird!). I visualised the dhampir as almost being able to ghost through things/teleport past them through their control of EE... making them temporarily incorporeal - would probably play like vam lord teleport

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 29, 2011 04:38 AM

Quote:
Hero Types: Described for vanilla, RPE and potential ranked and gendered hero formats. Ranks increase every 10 levels.
MALE: rank 1. Vagabond (Might), Wise-one (Magic), Exile (Balanced). rank 2. Wolf (Might), Totem (Magic), Jager (Balanced). rank 3. Dire-Wolf (Might), Yarila (Magic), Lord of the Hunt (Balanced).
FEMALE: rank 1. Wildling (Might), Wild-one (Magic), Feral (Balanced). rank 2. Fox (Might), Tytania (Magic), Huntress (Balanced). rank 3. Lynx (Might), Kostroma (Magic), Lady of the Hunt (Balanced).


wow, there are 18 different type of hero? if you have that many heroes per faction, I really wonder how you will all make them different from each others?

personnaly, I suppose that 2 would be enough. the main problem being about primary and secondary skills that are hard to get, they could just be easier for the 2nd hero.

Quote:
Units:
Level 1: Tinker/Vodyanoy/Vodnici
* Abilities – (All units) Repair [heal Yaga unit]. (Vodyanoy)  Fish Scales [50% water resistance and 10% projectile resistance]. (Vodnici) Theft [Vodnici will supply the army with a small amount of gold after a victory]

maybe a level 1 unit able to heal any other unit from his faction is a bit too much? sure gremlins can heal a lot of HPs too, but only golems, and it's still amazing for a level 1 ability.
between the 2 upgrade, I would probably pick the thief most of the time, even if the money gained is very little. when creeping, there is only one creature that can attack you with cold spells (water elemental), and the 10% damage reduction won't help much against shooters, if you count on it to cut losses, you are playing with luck imo. I think in a final fight, it could be very slightly superior, especially if the enemy hero rely on cold spells. though, I would prefer a high level unit with immunity to cold, at least it protects you against cold death.

Quote:
Level 2: Witch/Kikimora/Rusalka
* (all units) Eternal Essence affinity [???]; Swift attack. (Kikimora) Random Blessing (Rusalka) Trick [chance to cast advanced confusion on attack].

I don't know what is eternal essence affinity, and it seems you don't know either, so I don't get what the point in introducing it.
I like their ability. trick is useful with all those leapers, and it makes a change from the zillions bash / fear random abilities. but swift attack only works with slow, so if they can't cast it, there is no point.

Quote:
Level 3: True Man/Werewolf/Werefox
* (all units) Wolf-brother [neutral wolf units will join Hero's army]. (Werewolf) Leap; Paw strike. (Werefox) Strike and Return; Paw Strike.

I would just delete wolf brother ability, depending on your luck, it can be useless or totally overpowered. other abilities are fine and work well together. would be a difficult choice between the 2 upgrade

Quote:
Level 4: Little Baba/Baba Yaga/Mama Yaga
* (all units) Greater Eternal Essence affinity [???]; Caster; Ranged attack. (Baba Yaga) Howl of Terror. (Mama Yaga)  Warp cloak [60% magic projectile resistance, includes elemental ranged attacks].

caster + shooter isn't exactly very creative, but well...
is howl of terror the necro ability that reduces chance and morale by 1 and initiative by 10%? I think I would rather choose the 60% resistance, it makes a lot of difference against the right units, and you don't lose a turn to cast it. of course that might be different is you only use a small stack for spellcasting, but I think it's kinda late. it's like shamans, you will mostly use earth daughter, but you will take 2 or 3 sky daughters with you, because they have more mana, but never much more...

Quote:
Level 5: Troll/Bjorning/Ribesal
* (all units) Large creature; Throw stones [creature has 3 ammo for ranged attacks and 5 for upgrades, ammo cart and quiver has no effect on ammo, no melee penalty, no range penalty]. (Bjorning) Bear roar. (Ribesal) Enrage; Arise My Forefathers [resurrect tinker units, no HP penalty].

it sounds like this unit is supposed to be a melee attacker, but with 5 projectils, it will probably be used as a shooter anyway, especially with no range penalty. bear roar is a good ability for a shooter, allows you to free yourself when you are blocked. what are tinker units?
oh yeah, both no melee and no range penalty is insane, unless this creature is really weak.


Quote:
Level 6:
* (all units) Huge Creature – These units take up 9 tiles (!); Leap. (Yaga Fort) Impervious [enforces 80% ranged penalty to units targeting it or creatures behind it]. (Yaga Palace) Arrow tower [ranged attack, enforces 30% ranged penalty to units targeting it or creatures behind it]

lol, a leaping fort, that sounds really funny.
though, from a gameplay point of view, it is very special to have a defending unit with a leap ability. 80% ranged penalty is enormous, but in another hand, squires can shield units that are in front of them, so... I think it's a great ability. it shouldn't work on the yaga fort itself. the 2nd upgrade can move and shoot at the same time? looks like we have 2 very valuable units here. not sure about about leap, it's not because it is funny, that it will work good.

Level 7: Varcolac/Dhampir/True Knight
Quote:
* (all units) Beast-master [certain neutral units will always join]; Leap (2); Strike and return. (Varcolac) Beserk [10% chance to have turn again after attack, does not occur consecutively] (Dhampir) Lesser Life-drain; flier. (True Knight) Slayer; Viscous Strike [one use of deadly strike, 80% success rate]

no any ability that makes neutrals join you for sure is bad imo, it can really unbalance things. viscious strike is too unbalanced too.

Quote:
feats: Ultimate ability: Triumph of The People - all units receive half retaliation damage.

it's quite weak. two words : mass confusion.

Quote:
Other skills:
Chasing [replaces dark magic]: increases movement of all units by 1 per level of mastery.

that's insane. do you know that for example, rune of charge is usually banned from competitive games? even +1 speed is already extremly valuable. +3 is overkill.

Quote:
feats:
* Lore of the Hunt: Reduces defense of enemy living creatures by 10% (cumulative with offense)
Weakening strike.
* Run Them Down: Adds movement bonus to attack (1.5% added per tile)
Wild Fear: Reduces living enemy movement and morale by 1.
Voodoo dance: Same effect as advanced mass slow, undispellable.
* Take Cover: Units behind obstacles receive 40% less damage from physical projectile attacks in addition to range penalty, adds 10% to Yaga Fort/Palace bonus.


good overall, but the fact that mass slow can't be dispelled might be too much of an advantage?

Quote:
* Wild Mind: Hero gets an additional .75% initiative per level (including levels already gained).

it's better than jhora's speciality. but I felt that her speciality didn't make much difference. everyone else seems to think it is awesome, but really, sorcery and empathy are better.

Quote:
Community [replaces summoning magic]: as above. probably with spells that summon animals like wolves, etc. or reinforcements. Works well with leadership.

Throwing [replaces destructive magic]: Allows the hero to throw special objects at enemies (similar to destructive magic).

cool. maybe they make potions? like in H4?

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TheBaron
TheBaron


Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
posted June 29, 2011 07:11 AM
Edited by TheBaron at 13:49, 29 Jun 2011.


Quote:

wow, there are 18 different type of hero? if you have that many heroes per faction, I really wonder how you will all make them different from each others?

personnaly, I suppose that 2 would be enough. the main problem being about primary and secondary skills that are hard to get, they could just be easier for the 2nd hero.


there aren't 18 different types, there's 3 that are ranked. I was imagining that every 10 levels you could go up a rank. This would allow you to access better feats and change the hero model. This is truly a dream concept. It probably won't be done, but I think it would be amazingly awesomecool. That's right awesomecool.

It could be that your rank is even chosen for you depending on the feats you've selected... eg. if i choose a whole bunch of magic-ish feats, then i will go up a magic rank at lev10 and then if i choose heaps of offensive feats, i go up a might rank and lev20. if you choose a bit of both, maybe you max at a balanced rank when you hit lev30.

TINKERS
Quote:
maybe a level 1 unit able to heal any other unit from his faction is a bit too much? sure gremlins can heal a lot of HPs too, but only golems, and it's still amazing for a level 1 ability.
between the 2 upgrade, I would probably pick the thief most of the time, even if the money gained is very little. when creeping, there is only one creature that can attack you with cold spells (water elemental), and the 10% damage reduction won't help much against shooters, if you count on it to cut losses, you are playing with luck imo. I think in a final fight, it could be very slightly superior, especially if the enemy hero rely on cold spells. though, I would prefer a high level unit with immunity to cold, at least it protects you against cold death.
The Tinker type can only heal YAGA units - the chicken-house/fort things. Yeah wasn't sure about the other abilities, but I was considering that perhaps the alt-upgrade could cost more to make up for its ability to steal. The resistance to cold is well, not great, but then what lev1 units are?



WITCHES
Quote:

I don't know what is eternal essence affinity, and it seems you don't know either, so I don't get what the point in introducing it.
I like their ability. trick is useful with all those leapers, and it makes a change from the zillions bash / fear random abilities. but swift attack only works with slow, so if they can't cast it, there is no point.

You're right I don't know, this was perhaps to have Quantomas' input. This faction is supposed to be very capable of using EE (however that may be) and so I wanted to add something that reflected that. We have no models or anything, so I imagine that by the time we do, we may have established what this ability could be. Swift attack does only work with slow, which means that it only complements that mass slow ability mentioned.

TRUE MEN
Quote:
I would just delete wolf brother ability, depending on your luck, it can be useless or totally overpowered. other abilities are fine and work well together. would be a difficult choice between the 2 upgrade
wolf-brother comment=True. I was just trying to think of something vaguely original that fitted with the unit's vibe. You think it's fine with nothing to replace it?

BABAS
Quote:

caster + shooter isn't exactly very creative, but well...
is howl of terror the necro ability that reduces chance and morale by 1 and initiative by 10%? I think I would rather choose the 60% resistance, it makes a lot of difference against the right units, and you don't lose a turn to cast it. of course that might be different is you only use a small stack for spellcasting, but I think it's kinda late. it's like shamans, you will mostly use earth daughter, but you will take 2 or 3 sky daughters with you, because they have more mana, but never much more...
I hear you, but I think it's good that you have a couple of alt-units that play an important part in the battle, and you have to make a hard choice on which to include (especially when you have full slots). I find anything that lowers initiative useful, especially since they don't have many spells. That could be because I'm not as good a player as you, (because really I'm not as good as I was in my H3 days) and so I don't understand the mechanics as well, but I think howl of terror is useful FOR A UNIT but rubbish for a hero. Caster and ranged... well what can you do? they're magic? suggestions?

TROLLS
Quote:

it sounds like this unit is supposed to be a melee attacker, but with 5 projectils, it will probably be used as a shooter anyway, especially with no range penalty. bear roar is a good ability for a shooter, allows you to free yourself when you are blocked. what are tinker units?
oh yeah, both no melee and no range penalty is insane, unless this creature is really weak.

I was thinking in a similar vein to the BEcyclops, who usually is just used to hurl goblins, but is also fairly competent in melee. No range penalty is epic, perhaps better with less ammo? Remember they can never have any more than the amount we give them. The tinker units are the first level units - the ones that can repair Yagas (chicken forts). This whole faction is designed to hit hard and fast because they aren't tanks like the barbs are supposed to be.

YAGAS
Quote:

lol, a leaping fort, that sounds really funny.
though, from a gameplay point of view, it is very special to have a defending unit with a leap ability. 80% ranged penalty is enormous, but in another hand, squires can shield units that are in front of them, so... I think it's a great ability. it shouldn't work on the yaga fort itself. the 2nd upgrade can move and shoot at the same time? looks like we have 2 very valuable units here. not sure about about leap, it's not because it is funny, that it will work good.
Yeah, I really like the idea of a giant chicken house jumping and squishing on an opponent although i imagine it would be pretty difficult to animate! Perhaps it should have a small missile reduction percentage or just very high hp, making them the only tanking unit in the faction. Otherwise it might get downed before other units can use it effectively. I don't think it's offensive capabilities should be as strong as the other units, it should be mainly for defense and the occasional jump attack/weak missile attacks.

LEV7 VARCO/DHAMP/KNIGHT
Quote:
no, any ability that makes neutrals join you for sure is bad imo, it can really unbalance things. viscious strike is too unbalanced too.
Ok, we need something else instead of neutral units joining... perhaps a summon wolves ability, determined by hero level? For the lev 7s beast-master this could be a selection of animal summons, rather than just wolves. Vicious strike is 1 use only! Unlike the death strike of the death knights which is broken as hell. Again, other suggestion?

Quote:
feats: Ultimate ability: Triumph of The People - all units receive half retaliation damage.
Quote:
it's quite weak. two words : mass confusion.


Really? I thought this was pretty overpowered! I do mean that they only take half damage when another unit retaliates against them. How would confusion affect that? Do you mean to say it is the same as permanently having the mass confusion spell on? Because I would have thought that would be a great ulitmate (hence why i suggested it)


Quote:
Other skills:
Chasing [replaces dark magic]: increases movement of all units by 1 per level of mastery.
Quote:
that's insane. do you know that for example, rune of charge is usually banned from competitive games? even +1 speed is already extremly valuable. +3 is overkill.



Well I was just shooting off the cuff there. Maybe it increases movement speed by a certain percentage, so that certain units have only 1 extra speed, and others have more? Or maybe other way round... lower lev units are increased and high levels aren't?


Quote:
feats:
* Lore of the Hunt: Reduces defense of enemy living creatures by 10% (cumulative with offense)
Weakening strike.
* Run Them Down: Adds movement bonus to attack (1.5% added per tile)
Wild Fear: Reduces living enemy movement and morale by 1.
Voodoo dance: Same effect as advanced mass slow, undispellable.
* Take Cover: Units behind obstacles receive 40% less damage from physical projectile attacks in addition to range penalty, adds 10% to Yaga Fort/Palace bonus.

Quote:
good overall, but the fact that mass slow can't be dispelled might be too much of an advantage?

Perhaps, but they don't have access to the same spell book! Maybe it only lasts for a couple of turns and then can't be recast?

Quote:
* Wild Mind: Hero gets an additional .75% initiative per level (including levels already gained).
Quote:
it's better than jhora's speciality. but I felt that her speciality didn't make much difference. everyone else seems to think it is awesome, but really, sorcery and empathy are better.

Maybe, but this is only 1 feat, not a whole skill. Which may make it over powered.

Quote:
Community [replaces summoning magic]: as above. probably with spells that summon animals like wolves, etc. or reinforcements. Works well with leadership.

Throwing [replaces destructive magic]: Allows the hero to throw special objects at enemies (similar to destructive magic).

cool. maybe they make potions? like in H4?
Yeah, potions sounds awesome!
Thanks for the feedback fauch!

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 29, 2011 03:43 PM

Quote:
The Tinker type can only heal YAGA units - the chicken-house/fort things. Yeah wasn't sure about the other abilities, but I was considering that perhaps the alt-upgrade could cost more to make up for its ability to steal. The resistance to cold is well, not great, but then what lev1 units are?

not sure it is good to make them cost more. and what's the point of buying an unit which generates gold if you pay more for it?

Quote:
TRUE MEN
wolf-brother comment=True. I was just trying to think of something vaguely original that fitted with the unit's vibe. You think it's fine with nothing to replace it?

their abilities are good, but the basic creature probably needs something. paw strike I think.

Quote:
BABAS
I hear you, but I think it's good that you have a couple of alt-units that play an important part in the battle, and you have to make a hard choice on which to include (especially when you have full slots). I find anything that lowers initiative useful, especially since they don't have many spells. That could be because I'm not as good a player as you, (because really I'm not as good as I was in my H3 days) and so I don't understand the mechanics as well, but I think howl of terror is useful FOR A UNIT but rubbish for a hero. Caster and ranged... well what can you do? they're magic? suggestions?

yeah true, it's good for a unit, but there is already many things they can do instead, whereas the other upgrade has a passive ability.
and 60% magic protection is great for a shooter, especially if your enemy has no way to reach them in melee

Quote:
TROLLS
I was thinking in a similar vein to the BEcyclops, who usually is just used to hurl goblins, but is also fairly competent in melee. No range penalty is epic, perhaps better with less ammo? Remember they can never have any more than the amount we give them. The tinker units are the first level units - the ones that can repair Yagas (chicken forts). This whole faction is designed to hit hard and fast because they aren't tanks like the barbs are supposed to be.

cyclops have range penalty and need to be near goblins (who flee all the time) so it's far less powerful. now it's more like the titan.


Quote:
LEV7 VARCO/DHAMP/KNIGHT
Ok, we need something else instead of neutral units joining... perhaps a summon wolves ability, determined by hero level? For the lev 7s beast-master this could be a selection of animal summons, rather than just wolves. Vicious strike is 1 use only! Unlike the death strike of the death knights which is broken as hell. Again, other suggestion?

1 use is already enough to destroy half of the strongest enemy stack. I don't have suggestion now, I'm confused about that unit.

Quote:
Really? I thought this was pretty overpowered! I do mean that they only take half damage when another unit retaliates against them. How would confusion affect that? Do you mean to say it is the same as permanently having the mass confusion spell on? Because I would have thought that would be a great ulitmate (hence why i suggested it)

I don't know, for a ultimate, it doesn't look so impressive to me. for example, supernatural luck divide all damage by 2 (and even 4 sometimes)

Quote:
Well I was just shooting off the cuff there. Maybe it increases movement speed by a certain percentage, so that certain units have only 1 extra speed, and others have more? Or maybe other way round... lower lev units are increased and high levels aren't?

it is complicated. most factions can learn fast and furious, so +1 speed is ok, and it is already great
they could as well have an initiative bonus, but I'm not sure how much would be balanced. if they are a slow faction 5 / 10 / 15% could be ok.

Quote:
Perhaps, but they don't have access to the same spell book! Maybe it only lasts for a couple of turns and then can't be recast?

I just think it should be possible to counter

I noticed something else, there is no low level shooter I think, which can be a great disadvantage in early game, especially if their hero has no way to compensate. the lack of flying unit is less of a problem. leap compensates for it, and I think it is more important to have high level flying units.

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted July 01, 2011 05:51 PM
Edited by Quantomas at 17:52, 01 Jul 2011.

The Shifter campaign's task is now available on the EE website along with a new dev diary entry.

My main focus was on the background, culture and story elements. The unit design is very much in flux for me, because there will be tons of new things to play with once we have the Eternal Essence in the game mechanics proper. I guess it's difficult to explain what will be coming, and it's easier to present it when the time is there. I am still looking into sharing as much as I can how Eternal Essence works to support your work on the story, lore & characters of The People. BTW we have to find a better way to share all this information than having me transfer it manually onto the EE website.

Regarding, 3x3 units, it's a possibility, but with the Eternal Essence game mechanics there will also be options like force fields and projections that will make a unit appear larger and have an impact on neighboring units. That might be the better way to go. Technically it could be a 1x1 unit with a 1 tile force field in all directions.

Regarding balancing, keep in mind the EE AI will be able to autobalance skills and stats and give the players options to equalize odds. So, it's good for us to develop a general (human) feeling how powerful skills/perks are but the AI can do the maths and tell us exact power balances.

---

Project website:
Heroes 5.5 - Eternal Essence

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 04, 2011 03:07 AM
Edited by Fauch at 03:15, 04 Jul 2011.

I was thinking of which changes I could bring to my faction, Arcania.

Tier 1 :
Wisp : Mana feed
Mystic : Mana link, Mana regeneration
Will - O - Wisp : Mana feed, Magical repair

Mana link : Activated ability. This creature can share its mana pool with the chosen hero or creature.

Mana regeneration : This creature regenerates 2 mana point each time it takes a turn.

Magical repair : This creature can repair mechanical units for a small mana cost.

Tier 2 :
Arcane blades : Mechanical, Magic proof 25%
Runic axes : Mechanical, Magic proof 50%, Dampen magic, Aura of protection
Arcane swords : Mechanical, Blade barrier

Aura of protection : This creature increases the magic protection of adjacent allied creatures by 25%

Blade barrier : This creature has 75% protection against ranged and magical attack. it returns 100% of the physical damage it receives in melee. Against Magical shot, the reduction is 75% as well.

Tier 3 :
Combat mage : Immunity to blind, Shooter, Magical shot
Dreams guardian : Immunity to blind, Shooter, Blinding shot, Magical shot
Mage arsonist : Immunity to blind, Shooter, Mark of fire, Magical shot

Magical shot : for the damage calculation of the range attack, the spellpower of the hero rather than his attack is added to the creature attack. This creature range attack deals reduced damage against creatures with a global magical protection. final damage = damage x (1 - percentage of magical protection / 2). Large shield, Shields others, Incorporeal and Deflect arrows have no effect.
Some original creatures could be given this ability too, such as academy's mages.

Blinding shot : The range attack of this creature may blind the target.

Mark of fire : Mark of fire doubles damage dealt by fire spells and attacks.

Tier 4 :
Sentinel : Mechanical, Immunity to fire
Adamantium sentinel : Mechanical, Immunity to fire, Immunity to earth, Shake earth
Magma guard : Mechanical, Immunity to fire, Searing aura, Fire wave

Shake earth : This creature may stun all adjacent enemies but only damages the target stack. This creature can also attack walls.

Fire wave : Fire attack (Affected by mark of fire)

Tier 5 :
Mimic crystal : Elemental, Elemental immunity, Call lightning
Storm crystal : Elemental, Elemental immunity, Call lightning, Call storm, Chain lightning, Invisibility, Air absorption
Thunder crystal : Elemental, Elemental immunity, Stormstrike, Lizard bite, Aura of air vulnerability

Elemental immunity : this creature can take no damage from elements.

Call lightning : 9 damage per creature.

Call storm : 5 damage per creature. damage reduction of 0.5% per creature.

Chain lightning : Activated ability. Free and unlimited. 6 damage per creature.

Air absorption : This creature is healed by the air element.

Tier 6 :
Rock : Flyer, Bravery
Garuda : Flyer, Bravery, Systematic retaliation, Searing feathers
Nebula : Flyer, Bravery, Immunity to air, Dash

Systematic retaliation : This creature retaliates to every attack, even if the attacker has the no retaliation ability.

Searing Feathers : This creature returns 20% of the damage it receives in melee as fire damage (affected by mark of fire) in addition, the attacker is "blind" (frozen) for 0.1 turn.

Tier 7 :
Wizard king : Immunity to mind spells, Spellcaster (Teleport no mastery)
Chosen : Immunity to mind spells, Spellcaster (Teleport Expert, Regeneration), Incineration
Illuminated : Immunity to mind spells, Spellcaster (Teleport Expert, Phantom forces Expert), Canalization of power

Incineration : Fire attack (Affected by mark of fire)

Canalization of power : As long as at least one of those creatures remain on the battlefied, the spellpower of the hero is increased by 25% for spellcasting. (not for abilities such as Magical shot)



The skillwheel is subject to changes.
currently, the racial skill is the academy one. the racial perks are :
- mark of the wizard
- consume artifacts
- artificial glory

new racial perks may include :
- Savant : the hero may learn spells of the 3rd circle. 4th circle if he has wisdom, eventually 5th circle if he has the book of power.

- Mark of the alchemist : The hero may link himself to an allied or enemy spellcasting creature. he chooses one spell, and each time this creature casts a spell, the hero automatically casts the chosen spell on the target of the creature's spell.
for example, the hero cast Mark of the alchemist on the wizard kings, and choose righteous might. the wizard kings casts teleport on sentinels. the heroes casts righteous might on sentinels.

I may remove Magic mirror from the luck tree.

The summoning tree has Air warriors instead of Fire warriors. it is the same perk, but allows to summon only air elementals.

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted July 10, 2011 09:54 PM
Edited by markkur at 02:22, 11 Jul 2011.

@Baron

Maybe a time-saving idea?

Since we've no help with (creatures and towns) atm, how about a short-cut to campaign? This idea is makeshift but it would give us something tangible soon. Later, (when those bridges are crossed), it could be replaced with your real vision.

Again just thinking about what is in hand:

How about taking various creatures and making a "Rebel" faction? Fauch or someone else could be asked to re-color a town and the chosen existing monsters that could make-up the "Renegades" who are tired of their factions. They seek the "Light & Wood" and desire to be far from the smoke of war.". But the "World is at War" and their Wood is sick... hence the following, using what you've has laid out as a campaign flow.

@all

I felt like having some creative fun this morning and thought about the steps on Baron's campaign map. I like the split trails (3a & 3b to 8), in that one is land and the other sea focused. That should provide a good mix of objectives along with another dash in what I will call 7a2 that goes to the east of the mountain range in Ygg Chall.

Here is an idea of how things could un-fold, but before beginning:

1. As I looked at the more detailed map of Ashan (the similar but colored one) I imagined what factions they would feasibly encounter on their trek and inserted some sort of interaction with them at "Baron's"  chapter-markers.

2. Also, in looking at both maps there is only some vague terrain present but I took it as canon and that good place names could be created and the combination could fit well into the backdrop of the campaign-story.
3. Very general thoughts about possibilities.

Prologue: They are starting out near what looks like “The Great Wood”. Could have been their refuge for ages? What has made them head out? Are the wise ones not being heeded and it’s a matter of seeking domination. Or has something happened to (thinking of EE here) obscure the sun-light and their wood/edge of the wood-home is dying? Maybe they have set-out to discover how to “heal the land“?

One - A&B. “Across the Plain”Since at 2 they will part ways, there could be some sort of rivalry that sets-up the differences of “desiring the sea” and demanding to “walk on land“. Also they could encounter some renegade Orc-clans that have pushed south out of Rannar into central Thallan.

Two - A&B. “Divided Campfires” They trek into central Thallan They make camp to hold a “Moot” (whatever their name for it is) to decide where to travel. One group wants to head north because mountains loom in the west, while the other think they afford cover and think setting sail would be too risky a gamble

Three- A. “Falling Rocks”They trek into western Thallan and find a mountain range blocks the most direct western routes. This creates serious turmoil. They head north and discover there is no way through. They decide to turn around and not try to cross the high-range. Meanwhile, what looked like a safe canyon to camp, is not. It turns out both Orcs and Necros have strong “Outposts” in the upper elevations to keep an eye on each other and neither are happy at having these new intruders in the rocky valley. Warnings, a shady alliance and ambushes? A warning also makes it way to Heresh.

Three - B. “Crossing Orcs”Heading north to the sea turns out not as easy as expected. The “True Orcs” (the ones that follow tribal custom and law) attempt to block access to the sea. Once they are war with these Orcs, a renegade Orc-chieftain from the central region shows them a safe passage that nears the “lands of men” that will take them around the many fortified towns. Does this help come at a price?
They make it to the coast and build their ships. This activity is soon discovered and they must build in a hurry.

Four - A. “Planks & Oars” After surviving the encounters, they’re on the run and trying to avoid any more fighting. Their leadership decides that they will head south and bypass the range. Finding wood is not easy but they do and build some small craft that will suffice. A storm blows up and puts them further south in the Jade then they desired but they eventually land on Heresh’s NE coast . The warning arrived before they did. The Necros have trained Ravens to carry messages between their forts. Soon after landing, they feel they are being observed.

Four - B “Sea of Shadows” Plenty of islands to pass on the route. Since they are not a sea-people, maybe they have to do the island/coast-hop. Maybe the first part of the voyage is boat-repair and the second part they meet the Sea-Elves and get some info about “healing “Ashan with light?” or the knowledge/plant/insect/ etc. is found on an island in the NW Irisus Sea?

Five -A “Dark Banners” Scouts tell them that an army is issuing from deeper Heresh. They decide to out-distance the Necros, who do not know their reason for them being on their border. This trek is without pause through a sleepless night.

Five - B “Island Paradise” Whatever they are needing… it’s here. Settlement is forbidden to all.

Six - A “The Fork” They’ve made it to safety for the moment at a spot were two rivers merge into one, that eventually empties into the Jade at the north-west border of Heresh. Time to rest. With the travel over plains, mountains and the sea, this area, with its woods, has the feel of home…except for the bogs. Men are encountered to the north.

*** Six - A to 7B “Wind and Wands” This path could bring the Wizards into the Campaign.

Six B - “Twilight and Light” Bringing the needed “Light” item back, takes them through mysterious regions.

Seven - A “No easy path” Between Men and Dwarves they must travel to reach the north road.

Seven - B “The Forest Road” Elves, both light and dark, guard this region that separates Irollan and Ygg Chall.

Eight - “ Three Flags” Elves, Men and Dwarves border a huge and lush valley in Irollan.

Nine - “The Long Dark Hall” Trapped by the three armies in eastern Grimheim and but not wanting to take the sea, they discover a hidden cave entrance. It is a long path underground with no end in sight. Inferno rules here

Ten - “Dead-end” After coming above ground for the first time in many days, they find themselves in a desolate box-canyon and recognize some of the peaks, Then discover and follow runes or ancient carvings and are transported.

Eleven - “Pirates of the Jade” It is only once here that some of the odd island maps that were by some inscriptions, now make sense. The voyage through the Jade to make it back to their southern coast. Ships appear by magic. They must pass the Pao and Hashim islands. Pirates

Epilogue - “Renewal” The trip from their southern coast and back home for some magic.

I realize this is only a skeleton of a story but thought I'd try to find a shortcut and share some ideas.

Edit= forgot Inferno in 9

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted July 11, 2011 01:56 PM

Can a moderator please clean the troll's post? Markkur could you contact a moderator? Do not even consider replying to posts like this, just have these cleaned.

In general I believe once we get to the stage to be more productive, we will need a more sophisticated board that allows us to have some closed discussions, some that are open but only the invited members can post on, plus public topics for feedback from every fan.

So, one day you might see us move to a shiny new board for EE.

---

Now, to the important stuff.

Markkur made a good suggestion. I don't see its value as a time-saver rather as a means to define a beta process.

For me, in the campaign the most important part is story, something that stirs the imagination and keeps people going for more. Having played countless custom/random single player maps, what I often feel wanting for is a motivation to achieve the objectives and win a map.

So, having a campaign that tells a story, lets you identify with your heroes and what they are doing, and if the story is good it gets you going like a good novel. But we can do more here, we can offer different paths and alignments, and offer the player choices that alter the outcome.

It is a very good thing for EE that TheBaron works on a mature background and story. I think we can use Markkur's suggestion to develop a framework for the campaign to accomodate a more rich, mature story.

Once we have 3.2 out (the strategic AI end stage, the Hall of Decision and the scheduled bug fixes) I would like to see us moving towards our vision of EE. The idea is to have a highly polished and playable Heroes V with 3.2, but then go and create something new and grand.

The first thing I would like to change is the opening screen, which I would like to replace with a campaign map. This will be your central interface to the game.

Imagine the campaign map similar to the map of Ashan TheBaron has posted and divided into small interactive duchies/regions.

In one of these regions you will find the first campaign mission. While you complete campaign missions others will open in other regions. But, this is important, we can have any number of campaigns accessible from the world screen, the Shifter campaign as well as Markkur's Rebel campaign. You technically can click on a region, review the available missions (from different campaigns or stand-alone scenarios), and then choose one.

Markkur has offered some solid ideas for objectives of the missions: mountain ranges and obstacles, scouts and the whereabouts of neighboring armies, hide and rush, build a fleet to cross a channel, choose your path and much more. This is very rich material for us to create a new breed of much more interactive strategic maps.

What I mean with a beta process, is that we can develop the means and maps to prototype these features. Towns that emerge from ruins, others that are ruined, dynamic weather patterns, rivers and bodies of water that might be traversed under certain conditions, passages to underground caves that can be revealed and open, such things.

This is basically my idea, that we set out on a beta campaign process that lets us develop the main campaign map, the world view, how different campaigns can be aligned, different time periods accessed, and figure out how alignments and the progress in different campaigns can affect the whole world of Ashan, a living and breathing world that changes with the players choices. The second part of the work will be the creation of maps that use the advanced features indicated and that offer truly interesting strategic gameplay.

It's probably good that we work on this already while TheBaron works on the story, background and culture of the mature Shifter campaign.

Markkur is also right that we don't need fully detailed creature models for this. It will work if we can reuse existing models with some alterations so that they are distinguishable. Think of wolves, wyverns, unicorns, phoenix, manticore, shaman, a warrior and so on. We could go for giving them all the stats and skills and perks we want, this is relatively straightforward to implement, and just let the full work on the creature models be a step to be completed later.

So, in short, this should be a process that lets us move forward, to produce something fairly soon and add the more mature content once it emerges in its own time.

The important part is that we will have something that people can check out and play with, and for us to familiarize with the possibilities and features that come with a fully non-linear campaign and open world map.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 12, 2011 12:19 AM

Quote:
How about taking various creatures and making a "Rebel" faction? Fauch or someone else could be asked to re-color a town and the chosen existing monsters that could make-up the "Renegades" who are tired of their factions. They seek the "Light & Wood" and desire to be far from the smoke of war.". But the "World is at War" and their Wood is sick... hence the following, using what you've has laid out as a campaign flow.


I'm not sure I understand... I've already created a renegade faction, why not use it, instead of creating another one? of course I can still make some adjustments. I have some ideas I could implement, when it becomes technically possible.

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hobbeslad204
hobbeslad204

Tavern Dweller
posted July 12, 2011 12:20 AM

write

writers write more,it is goodly written now,but please think of the children.
____________

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Markkur
Markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted July 12, 2011 02:04 AM

Quote:
[I'm not sure I understand... I've already created a renegade faction, why not use it, instead of creating another one? of course I can still make some adjustments. I have some ideas I could implement, when it becomes technically possible.


Honestly I was thinking in a box. The H5 vanilla one and not venturing anywhere else that day.

Later it did come to me that maybe you have (and others) might have some already existing work that might hmmm... work. Maybe some creatures here and there can be assembled.

I've only in the last couple of days attempted to make contributions in ways other than HoD maps. I've had zero time. The point is , all I've done is submit ideas (I'm about to post another that I've worked on today, about the HoD Quest design)and they are meant to be built upon, altered, improved...whatever.

Since you know this stuff and I am barely aware of it, care to assemble a group specifically for this campaign idea? Q did mention the "neutrals" so maybe a balance of old and new?

It's up to Q, in the end. Here in this thread I was more focusing on "how to get a campaign rolling without the tools that are yet needed to be developed for the greater things.

Again,I've not gave this near enough thought but I did think when I was talking about the mysterious places like the "Twi-light" arc-whatever that maybe we could find some of yours as neutrals in that region. I broken out of the box a little bit

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 12, 2011 02:20 AM

you can already find ideas around what already exists. unfortunately, when it comes to the towns, few have been completed. for example there was a winter town and a pirate town, but it seems the projects were abandonned. but it is still possible to download the work that has already been done, so I think they could be finished.

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted July 12, 2011 02:40 AM

Have you worked with towns, as in changing colors?

Is it very difficult to change what creatures can be hired from town dwellings?

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