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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted May 09, 2013 12:35 PM |
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People are not perfect and Christians are no exception.
We're not supposed to react to anything anyone does by saying stuff like : "You lied to me and stole my house, that's OK, and you're a sadist, this is OK, I love everybody" , but we should try to be as Christ-like as much as possible. That's what being a Christian is really about.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 09, 2013 12:54 PM |
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Quote:
we should try to be as Christ-like as much as possible. That's what being a Christian is really about.
So, how was Christ like then?
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted May 09, 2013 01:16 PM |
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@JJ
Christ prayed on the cross for those,who crusified him(such text is written in the New Testament).
As for loving each other,you have to make distinction between love as feeling and smile,joy,happy moments as emotions.
Nothing to do with each other.
For example love can be exercised in parent preparing his kid for the age after 18.Love can be shown via thoroughful explanations about life aspects,careful warning about the consiquences of an action,readiness to help your child in every moment of his life.
There are those,who wear pink glasses,but I think atheists or theists,it's just a way of excepting life from a minority group.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted May 09, 2013 01:32 PM |
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Christ was not a pacifist nor a hippie, but He preached about loving God and your neighbour and praying for your enemies, turning the other cheek, feeding the poor, clothing the naked...
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 09, 2013 02:13 PM |
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If only was true in real life as well. Today we have some strong christian groups calling for intolerance, homophobia, revolution, ignorance of laws, so guess they need to accord their violins. Being perfect, nice aim, now who can is another matter. About feeding the poor and clothing the naked, we are already fixed on christian E views on the matter: die scum! won't get any dollar from me. With love, christian E. 
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Era II mods and utilities
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted May 09, 2013 02:50 PM |
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Why do you have to take only one Christian's views as the norm? It's like asking just Guardiola about football. He knows it, but there are others too.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 09, 2013 05:53 PM |
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Instead of asking questions like that, why don't you object the next time when your fellow Christian says something that makes a mockery of your religion's values?
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 09, 2013 06:38 PM |
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So the Christian is either inhuman or brain-washed. We had this discussion already as well. Loving EVERYONE makes the whole concept of love and emotions pointless, because no matter what happens, your emotional reaction to other people is supposed to be love. Sorry, to have to say it so hard, but that's idiocy.
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Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Some things are just beyond an unbeliever's capacity to comprehend, JJ. You can't "see" how a person can love everyone because you can't "see" the "kingdom of God" because you have not been "born again."
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1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The Spirit of love (The Spirit of Christ) lives in me. I've experienced the new birth that Jesus preached.
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Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
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I really can't express how sick I am reading and listening to this. If we want a better society we must see humans for what they are and for what they are not.
I am saddened that you find the concept of everyone loving each other sickening. If everyone loved each other there would be no crime and no wars. Life on earth would be a virtual paradise. Man does not have to hate, strive against, or torment others, JJ. There is a "higher" way of living. A lifestyle mankind was intended to have and that can be lived. Here. Now. In the ages to come.
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Revelation
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 09, 2013 06:43 PM |
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If only was true in real life as well. Today we have some strong christian groups calling for intolerance, homophobia, revolution, ignorance of laws, so guess they need to accord their violins. Being perfect, nice aim, now who can is another matter. About feeding the poor and clothing the naked, we are already fixed on christian E views on the matter: die scum! won't get any dollar from me. With love, christian E.
I've given over half my income to charity and I hate no one. I know of no socialists who redistribute their own income in such a manner. I believe in charity, which is people of their own free will helping other people. Welfare is theft by the government to redistribute income as a means of buying votes.
Calling things God calls sin is not being hateful or intolerant. If you are driving down a road by my house and I happen to know the storm knocked out the bridge I am not being hateful or intolerant if I flag you down and say, "Hey, the road is out, you need to go another direction" instead of just waving at you while you fly down the road to your doom.
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Revelation
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 09, 2013 06:50 PM |
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Well, there is no way to check if you really gave parts of your income, other than believing your words or extrapolating conclusions after analyzing your behavior (not very positive in that matter but that's my opinion only). The wealth care system assumes everyone is giving what it needs in order to keep the "brother" safe, law controlled.
My family talks the same way, all day "we love", "we share", "we take care", yet they beat each other open fists when it comes to money and steal each other without a remorse. Then the speech restarts, after a short church visit. So you would understand my skepticism about this double acting, all nice and perfect on paper, exactly as everyone else in practice. Human remains human, sometimes like a god, sometimes less than an animal. Except that he is able to lie and cover its nature.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 09, 2013 07:08 PM |
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Edited by artu at 19:09, 09 May 2013.
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Some things are just beyond an unbeliever's capacity to comprehend. You can't "see" how a person can love everyone because you can't "see" the "kingdom of God" because you have not been "born again."
Elodin, just out of curiosity, do you really perceive yourself as someone who loves every one. Note that I'm not talking about "not hating" but loving. If so, what a level of self-deception. You are one of the most aggressive people I've ever seen towards anybody who thinks different than you, you use words like liberal, leftist, atheist, socialist as semi-insults. You say you like the American way but while one of the good things about America is variety of ideas, any American who thinks different than you is an anti-american, the rest of the world should feel thankful to you because you don't turn them into slaves, when serious amount of civilians die in war, you say you are a pragmatist and it's just one of those things that happen... Do you seriously believe you are full of nothing but love? It's easy to say it, you don't act it.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted May 09, 2013 08:40 PM |
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Why do you have to take only one Christian's views as the norm?
I already explained that - because this one Christian is the loudest and other Christians defend him like you just did.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 09, 2013 10:22 PM |
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Some things are just beyond an unbeliever's capacity to comprehend, JJ. You can't "see" how a person can love everyone because you can't "see" the "kingdom of God" because you have not been "born again."
...
The Spirit of love (The Spirit of Christ) lives in me. I've experienced the new birth that Jesus preached.
...
I am saddened that you find the concept of everyone loving each other sickening. If everyone loved each other there would be no crime and no wars. Life on earth would be a virtual paradise. Man does not have to hate, strive against, or torment others, JJ. There is a "higher" way of living. A lifestyle mankind was intended to have and that can be lived. Here. Now. In the ages to come.
Your god killed the whole humanity, remember? Lovingly, I suppose. Sent that big flodd, drowning everyone except one couple, being really pleased hearing the last gasps of the dying - in a loving way, of course.
So excuse me, when I don't think that your religion is an expert when it comes to love. Oh, and call me unbelieving and incomprehensive or something, but I fail to see, how this love routine fits into your preaching of GUN-THEM-DOWN, but hey, the spirit of love is certainly not living in me.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 09, 2013 10:34 PM |
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When you go Old Testament, they use the New Testament as a way out. Seems like the Old Testament is only holy when it fits.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 09, 2013 11:03 PM |
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There's no discussion anyway.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted May 10, 2013 12:45 AM |
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When you go Old Testament, they use the New Testament as a way out.
That would mean that God's miracles from OT are more hypothetical than Christ's miracles from NT.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 10, 2013 01:45 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 01:48, 10 May 2013.
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@artu
Quote:
Quote:
Some things are just beyond an unbeliever's capacity to comprehend. You can't "see" how a person can love everyone because you can't "see" the "kingdom of God" because you have not been "born again."
Elodin, just out of curiosity, do you really perceive yourself as someone who loves every one. Note that I'm not talking about "not hating" but loving. If so, what a level of self-deception.
Sadly folks who appear to be an-theists seem completely unable/unwilling to do anything but insult religious people and bash religion and use thread for that purpose.
Anyone who says I am delusional for saying I love everyone is in fact either a liar or delusional. There is no nice way to put it when people continually, and willfully make up lie after lie after lie about me. And certainly no one can read my mind and thus can't say "no, you don't love everyone" with any semblance of integrity.
Jesus Christ was not "Mr Milktoast" and Christians don't have to be either. When Christ was confronted with lies and hypocrisy he said so.
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You are one of the most aggressive people I've ever seen towards anybody who thinks different than you, you use words like liberal, leftist, atheist, socialist as semi-insults.
I am certainly aggressive in debates. I "attack" ideas. You on the other hand always get personal and attack me.
"Liberal, leftist, atheist, socialist" are insults? Since when? Those words describe people who hold certain ideologies.
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You say you like the American way but while one of the good things about America is variety of ideas, any American who thinks different than you is an anti-american, the rest of the world should feel thankful to you because you don't turn them into slaves, when serious amount of civilians die in war, you say you are a pragmatist and it's just one of those things that happen... Do you seriously believe you are full of nothing but love? It's easy to say it, you don't act it.
Once again, you've made multiple false statements about what I believe. It is a lie to say that I say anyone who thinks differntly than I do is an "anti-American." If a person lies about America continualy, then yeah, he is "anti-American."
No, it is a lie that I think the would should be greatful that they are not American slavery. It is a lie to say that I support slavery and a lie to say that that anyone should be enslaved to America.
Yeah, there will be civilian deaths in any war. There have always been civilian deaths in war since the dawn of time and there always be. Wars are not fought on a HOMM battlefield where no civilians are present. It is nice to try to minimize civilian deaths and America certainly does try to minimize civilian deaths even at times to such an extent that US soldiers are unjustifiably put at risk.
Yep, I love people, and I act on that love. Anyone who thinks you never have "honest" exchanges of words with someone you love has never been in an actual intimate relationship with someone else.
@JollyJoker
Quote:
Your god killed the whole humanity, remember? Lovingly, I suppose. Sent that big flodd, drowning everyone except one couple, being really pleased hearing the last gasps of the dying - in a loving way, of course.
So excuse me, when I don't think that your religion is an expert when it comes to love. Oh, and call me unbelieving and incomprehensive or something, but I fail to see, how this love routine fits into your preaching of GUN-THEM-DOWN, but hey, the spirit of love is certainly not living in me.
I believe in the right of self defense, call that "gun-them-down" if you wish. If you'd just stand by and watch your wife and kids/grandkids get raped and killed in front of your eyes, well, that is up to you.
God gave mankind time to repent. Noah preached while building the ark. Noah, his sons and their daughters were saved. People who refused to repent of their sins had only themselves to blame.
God so loved the world that manifested himself as a man, lived a human life, subjected himself to being lied about, misunderstood, slapped around, and tortured to death. He died on the cross as the man Jesus Christ so everyone would have the opportunity to be saved. Take it or leave it.
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1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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There's no discussion anyway.
You are right that some people have nothing to discuss. They are on their typical anti-theist Stalinistic crusade against religion and religious people.
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Revelation
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 10, 2013 02:22 AM |
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Edited by artu at 02:49, 10 May 2013.
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I am certainly aggressive in debates. I "attack" ideas. You on the other hand always get personal and attack me.
"Liberal, leftist, atheist, socialist" are insults? Since when? Those words describe people who hold certain ideologies.
Somebody tells you to love every one is impossible (unless you are brainwashed) and your answer is it is impossible for non-belivers to do that or comprehend it. Suggesting, since you are a believer you can comprehend something we don't. I simply point out the fact you don't seem to be acting the way you allegedly comprehend things. Nothing personal if you ask me.
Attacking the ideas is not what you're doing, you use these words (while being unaware of their actual content I might add) as degrading labels. You don't say "leftists are wrong because of this, this and this" You say things like, "hah, those liberal, leftist freaks in the government are dictators who ruin America."
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Once again, you've made multiple false statements about what I believe. It is a lie to say that I say anyone who thinks differently than I do is an "anti-American." If a person lies about America continualy, then yeah, he is "anti-American."
Well, that would have been a valid answer if we were talking about some marginal group who is fundamentally against the United States in principle but according to you, even David Letterman is a radical leftist, almost anybody who votes Democrat is brainwashed by anti-american propaganda, when examples are given that are statements from high-ranking US government officials they become anti-american... I mean it has no end. Anyway, politics is not exactly the topic of this thread. The relevant part is you don't even perceive humanity as a lovable whole, you perceive it as "us and the enemies."
To be able to suggest only followers of Christ can comprehend some things you must first convince people that you did comprehend them and as of now, I don't see ANYBODY convinced about that when it comes to you. And I'm not recommending debating Mr. Milktoast style, I don't do that that either and I don't expect it. I am talking about trying to understand people, since you claim to love them all. Because that's what you try to do when you love something or someone. A little bit different than loving the "concept of humanity" in a propagandaesque level.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 10, 2013 05:06 AM |
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Somebody tells you to love every one is impossible (unless you are brainwashed) and your answer is it is impossible for non-belivers to do that or comprehend it.
Things of the Spirit are understood via the Spirit so yeah, there are a lot of things that unbelievers simply can't understand because they don't have the Spirit.
Yeah, I said I love everyone because the Spirit of love lives in me and atheists said, "Nuh-uh, you're a brainwashed delusional liar, nobody can love everyone."
I'm sorry if you can't understand how someone can love everyone. One day maybe you'll come to know God and things will "click" and you'll come to see many things you can't see now.
It is not a slap at the mental ability of unbelievers. It is simple acknowledgement that things of the Spirit are discerned through the Spirit not through towering intellect.
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Revelation
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 10, 2013 05:11 AM |
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All I dream about is having the spiritual capacity to love everyone like you, Elodin
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