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| Thread: Do you all feel the Hero recruiting system is broken? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Fang
Hired Hero
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posted September 03, 2011 09:33 PM |
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Edited by Fang at 22:22, 03 Sep 2011.
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Do you all feel the Hero recruiting system is broken?
Do you all think that after beating say a level 20 hero, the AI will just hire the same hero (lvl20) next turn again with equal amount troops?
What's the damage or "real" consequences that I've done to the enemy in this case in terms of strategy? Do I really weaken the enemy?
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted September 03, 2011 09:45 PM |
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Fang
Hired Hero
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posted September 03, 2011 10:19 PM |
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Edited by Fang at 22:21, 03 Sep 2011.
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Quote:
Do you all think that after beating say a level 20 hero, the AI will just hire the same hero (lvl20) next turn again with equal amount troops?
What's the damage that I've done to the enemy in this case?
What I mean is, he will return with replenished new troops and I was wondering if I really tip the favor on my side in terms of strategy?
Since the AI will resurrect his Hero and return for battle again and not necessarily suffering any "real" consequences.
I remember there was a heroes game I think in H4 where you could of imprisonned a Hero and took him out of the game. Maybe that was too harsh, but at least you didn't have to think about him unless he got freed.
In H6, it seems that even if you ressurect him, he doesn't suffer any experience loss and ressurecting is apparently free?
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 03, 2011 10:45 PM |
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I hate the whole Halls of Heroes system. It's utterly retarded.
1. There's no amount of heroes limit. You could recruit 40 heroes on day 1 if you had the money.
2. There's no recruitment limitation in non-campaign maps. If you wanted to piss off your opponent, you could recruit all the heroes of his faction to prevent him from recruiting them.
3. The resurrection system is retarded. You lost your hero ? Don't worry, next turn you can recruit him again.
4. Resurrection is cheap. Yeah, 500g for a resurrection is pathetic an you're hero is back with no penalty (other than losing his army ... but well, if he died, he lost his army anyways). Even funnier is that the necro heroes get a statbonus for being killed .... 
Give us back the old system an improve it.
- 2 heroes available with full armies in the tavern : 1st hero is always of your faction, the 2nd hero is random. Any hero recruited after the 2 first will have no army. Tavern heroes reset every week.
- Dead secondary heroes remain dead until the end of the game OR put back the H4 prison as a building in forts.
- Set the number of maximum active heroes back. Set it to 2 secondary heroes per city owned with a max of 8 active heroes on the map (like previous Heroes). Improve the heroes interface and remove these ugly navigation arrows.
- Fleeing heroes will take the 1st hero spot in the tavern.
- Dead main heroes can be resurrected for a cost equivalent to what you'd pay to recruit a new hero. So if next hero would cost you 5.000 gold, resurrecting your main hero would cost you 5.000 gold. Resurrecting your hero would also increase the cost of the next hero (as if you recruited a new hero).
- Resurrected main hero would have a 10% stat malus until the end of the week. Necromancers can cancel this debuff through their Tomb of Heroes (or whatever the Hall of Heroes upgrade is named).
- Give us back the tavern rumors.
- Give us back the "thieves guild"
Yeah, I despise the "xmas tree" approach ... H6 is more of a carebear game than a real strategy game 
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Fang
Hired Hero
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posted September 03, 2011 11:04 PM |
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Edited by Fang at 23:04, 03 Sep 2011.
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uh so I gather you agree then it's broken? I thought I was dreaming, no one ever talks about it. Is it me or people are on vacation?
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seddy
Known Hero
Spinner of delicious cupcakes
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posted September 03, 2011 11:11 PM |
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Quote:
I hate the whole Halls of Heroes system. It's utterly retarded.
1. There's no amount of heroes limit. You could recruit 40 heroes on day 1 if you had the money.
2. There's no recruitment limitation in non-campaign maps. If you wanted to piss off your opponent, you could recruit all the heroes of his faction to prevent him from recruiting them.
3. The resurrection system is retarded. You lost your hero ? Don't worry, next turn you can recruit him again.
4. Resurrection is cheap. Yeah, 500g for a resurrection is pathetic an you're hero is back with no penalty (other than losing his army ... but well, if he died, he lost his army anyways). Even funnier is that the necro heroes get a statbonus for being killed ....
Give us back the old system an improve it.
- 2 heroes available with full armies in the tavern : 1st hero is always of your faction, the 2nd hero is random. Any hero recruited after the 2 first will have no army. Tavern heroes reset every week.
- Dead secondary heroes remain dead until the end of the game OR put back the H4 prison as a building in forts.
- Set the number of maximum active heroes back. Set it to 2 secondary heroes per city owned with a max of 8 active heroes on the map (like previous Heroes). Improve the heroes interface and remove these ugly navigation arrows.
- Fleeing heroes will take the 1st hero spot in the tavern.
- Dead main heroes can be resurrected for a cost equivalent to what you'd pay to recruit a new hero. So if next hero would cost you 5.000 gold, resurrecting your main hero would cost you 5.000 gold. Resurrecting your hero would also increase the cost of the next hero (as if you recruited a new hero).
- Resurrected main hero would have a 10% stat malus until the end of the week. Necromancers can cancel this debuff through their Tomb of Heroes (or whatever the Hall of Heroes upgrade is named).
- Give us back the tavern rumors.
- Give us back the "thieves guild"
Yeah, I despise the "xmas tree" approach ... H6 is more of a carebear game than a real strategy game
^This. Sounds. SO much better
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Karanshade
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 03, 2011 11:28 PM |
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Quote:
I hate the whole Halls of Heroes system. It's utterly retarded.
1. There's no amount of heroes limit. You could recruit 40 heroes on day 1 if you had the money.
2. There's no recruitment limitation in non-campaign maps. If you wanted to piss off your opponent, you could recruit all the heroes of his faction to prevent him from recruiting them.
3. The resurrection system is retarded. You lost your hero ? Don't worry, next turn you can recruit him again.
4. Resurrection is cheap. Yeah, 500g for a resurrection is pathetic an you're hero is back with no penalty (other than losing his army ... but well, if he died, he lost his army anyways). Even funnier is that the necro heroes get a statbonus for being killed ....
Give us back the tavern rumors.
- Give us back the "thieves guild"
point 1: u need money
point 2 : it s a bug , should be 1+ nb of town
point 3 : I like it , from a strategic point of view , allows more tactics based on harass, that s personal tough
point 4 : pretty much a normal aspect of undead , throug death u get better  U still lose the troops tough
Overall , i like the new system (once point 2 is corrected)
tavern rumors and thieves guild , yeah I agree , bring em back
++hc
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Fang
Hired Hero
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posted September 03, 2011 11:55 PM |
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Edited by Fang at 23:56, 03 Sep 2011.
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Quote:
point 1: u need money
point 2 : it s a bug , should be 1+ nb of town
point 3 : I like it , from a strategic point of view , allows more tactics based on harass, that s personal tough
point 4 : pretty much a normal aspect of undead , throug death u get better U still lose the troops tough
Overall , i like the new system (once point 2 is corrected)
tavern rumors and thieves guild , yeah I agree , bring em back
++hc
I don't understand your point 3, tactics based on harass? Give us an example?
Basically, as it is now, you can fight a Hero without "consequences" whether you win or lose. All you do is get em back for free (no loss of xp) and in one week, he will be able to recruit those units back? You can't even chase em down.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 04, 2011 12:13 AM |
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Quote:
point 1: u need money
The fact that there's no limit in the first place is plain retarded. It doesn't matter whether it costs money or not. There's the same "supermarket" feeling when you buy new heroes than when you pick new skills. It just feels like a cheap system.
Quote:
point 2 : it s a bug , should be 1+ nb of town
I'm not sure it's a bug. It was like this in the private beta and it has been removed in the public beta
Quote:
point 3 : I like it , from a strategic point of view , allows more tactics based on harass, that s personal tough
There's no fun in fighting 50 times the same kamikaze hero. Instead of doing it like in H3 (Armaggedon + flee), now he can just cast his strongest spells until he dies, then get recruited 2 turns later and do the same over and over and over.
Quote:
point 4 : pretty much a normal aspect of undead , throug death u get better U still lose the troops tough
So because your hero died he gains 10% to his stats and improves his creatures even more ? I don't see any logic in that. Before a big battle, you could just send your main hero to suicide himself, then rez him next turn and benefit from a buff that might greatly affect the final result of the battle (depending on the level of your hero)
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 04, 2011 09:06 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
point 2 : it s a bug , should be 1+ nb of town
I'm not sure it's a bug. It was like this in the private beta and it has been removed in the public beta
Yeah, there was a very strong lobby working against the 1 + #towns rule because it prevented chaining. 
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What will happen now?
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Gweret
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 04, 2011 10:09 AM |
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Nelgrith wrote:
Quote:
- Dead secondary heroes remain dead until the end of the game OR put back the H4 prison as a building in forts.
So instead to stay to the "end" they will flee.
Is there a difference between fleeing hero and dead hero with ability to resurrect?
Fleeing should cost at least 70% of army. That should hurt.
Quote:
- Dead main heroes can be resurrected for a cost equivalent to what you'd pay to recruit a new hero[...]
In my opinion it should be 1000g x hero level.
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here's no fun in fighting 50 times the same kamikaze hero[...]
I'm not sure if this will be valid strategy in H6. To make this effective your secondary hero need to be:
- high level
- magic
- boost initiative
- have creatures with high initiative.
Secondary heroes don't have reputation boost. So offensive magic is a little bit limited.
3th level spells are available only since 15th level... This can happen in long games in large maps. Rarely.
Hard to judge right now.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 04, 2011 10:36 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 10:36, 04 Sep 2011.
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Yeah, there was a very strong lobby working against the 1 + #towns rule because it prevented chaining.
It also prevents multi-tasking your empire, unless you're in a good enough position that you can leave one of your towns unguarded (assuming garrison heroes count towards your limit).
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted September 04, 2011 11:14 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 11:14, 04 Sep 2011.
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I'm not sure if this will be valid strategy in H6. To make this effective your secondary hero need to be:
- high level
- magic
- boost initiative
- have creatures with high initiative.
Mentoring is pretty much sufficient to make sure that you'll have the first 3. As for the last - each faction has at least one such creature.
Quote:
So because your hero died he gains 10% to his stats and improves his creatures even more ? I don't see any logic in that. Before a big battle, you could just send your main hero to suicide himself, then rez him next turn and benefit from a buff that might greatly affect the final result of the battle (depending on the level of your hero)
Agreed, this is retarded, like Necropolis doesn't already have a truckload of advantages.
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Karanshade
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 04, 2011 02:02 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, there was a very strong lobby working against the 1 + #towns rule because it prevented chaining.
It also prevents multi-tasking your empire, unless you're in a good enough position that you can leave one of your towns unguarded (assuming garrison heroes count towards your limit).
which u don t need since u are supposed to base ur defensive/explorative strat on the teleport network and the common creature pool between towns ... which is supposed to affect your crystal expenses since portals cost some ( a bit similar to going tall vs going large in civ). If they really bowed to such a (insert a polite word here can ' t find any) lobby , they just destroyed the whole point of their new system.
Now if u can just 'mentor' a hero anytime u get a town the system realllly is about getting towns early and fast as it used to be , and going back to old thing always means u are near the end of your game ...soon enough the same (insert a word here) that lobbied for infinte number of heros will complain that the game is a bit plain or boring ...
gosh forumer pressure always destroy original ideas in this game ...
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted September 04, 2011 09:53 PM |
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And here I thought direct damage spells were bad enough ! The enemy has no army, but you keep getting losses. Don't even mention Armageddon...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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chimthegrim
Adventuring Hero
That guy ...
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posted September 04, 2011 11:51 PM |
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Quote:
I hate the whole Halls of Heroes system. It's utterly retarded.
1. There's no amount of heroes limit. You could recruit 40 heroes on day 1 if you had the money.
2. There's no recruitment limitation in non-campaign maps. If you wanted to piss off your opponent, you could recruit all the heroes of his faction to prevent him from recruiting them.
3. The resurrection system is retarded. You lost your hero ? Don't worry, next turn you can recruit him again.
4. Resurrection is cheap. Yeah, 500g for a resurrection is pathetic an you're hero is back with no penalty (other than losing his army ... but well, if he died, he lost his army anyways). Even funnier is that the necro heroes get a statbonus for being killed ....
Give us back the old system an improve it.
- 2 heroes available with full armies in the tavern : 1st hero is always of your faction, the 2nd hero is random. Any hero recruited after the 2 first will have no army. Tavern heroes reset every week.
- Dead secondary heroes remain dead until the end of the game OR put back the H4 prison as a building in forts.
- Set the number of maximum active heroes back. Set it to 2 secondary heroes per city owned with a max of 8 active heroes on the map (like previous Heroes). Improve the heroes interface and remove these ugly navigation arrows.
- Fleeing heroes will take the 1st hero spot in the tavern.
- Dead main heroes can be resurrected for a cost equivalent to what you'd pay to recruit a new hero. So if next hero would cost you 5.000 gold, resurrecting your main hero would cost you 5.000 gold. Resurrecting your hero would also increase the cost of the next hero (as if you recruited a new hero).
- Resurrected main hero would have a 10% stat malus until the end of the week. Necromancers can cancel this debuff through their Tomb of Heroes (or whatever the Hall of Heroes upgrade is named).
- Give us back the tavern rumors.
- Give us back the "thieves guild"
Yeah, I despise the "xmas tree" approach ... H6 is more of a carebear game than a real strategy game
I don't want to agree with you, but sadly I do. I can't bring any points against you except 5,000 gold is excessive. 2500 gold to buy a hero would be just fine. Yet, some of the decisions made with the gameplay on H6 just make no sense at all:
-Town conversions... what why?
-Buy heroes back instantly, sometimes at no cost... really why?
-Choose from any hero you want at the hall of heroes... ok but isn't this game about discovering things, or getting lucky in finding them?
-No town screens... WTF, seriously?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 05, 2011 12:29 AM |
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which u don t need since u are supposed to base ur defensive/explorative strat on the teleport network and the common creature pool between towns ... which is supposed to affect your crystal expenses since portals cost some ( a bit similar to going tall vs going large in civ). If they really bowed to such a (insert a polite word here can ' t find any) lobby , they just destroyed the whole point of their new system.
When your main hero is two days out from any of your towns, and see an enemy hero (not related to the guy you're currently invading) approaching your border, you're not going to be able to make much use of those portals are you?
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Fang
Hired Hero
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posted September 05, 2011 03:07 PM |
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Back to the topic, I want to suggest for every battle lost, we lose(XP = 1 level) since we get to be ressurected and for a FEE like 2500g and increasing each time you rez the same Hero.
That way you make the battles more exciting and can maybe tip the war in your favor. So at least next time(s) you meet the same Hero on the battlefield, that Hero won't be as threatening. So losing battles will cost you.
If my suggestion is too harsh for blackhole, then blackhole should come up with some kind of a penalty because as it is now there is none and there is no strategy to the point where even Huge endgame battles can mean nothing if you go to battle and win. Because the AI will come right back as if you didn't make a dent on his kingdom.
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Gweret
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 05, 2011 03:47 PM |
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I don't think losing one level will be hurt enough. It's only -1 to stats and skills. Debuffs should be better hero, for. eg -10 to morale, luck and initiative for one week.
In my opinion to limit resurrection cycle hero resurrection should cost:
base price ( for eg. 3000g ) + ( 1000g x hero level ).
And speaking about hero "run, damage and die/flee" strategy. In H6 damage spells are pretty weak. Killing one champion or few cores/elites should not be game breaking.
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Fang
Hired Hero
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posted September 05, 2011 04:02 PM |
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Quote:
I don't think losing one level will be hurt enough. It's only -1 to stats and skills. Debuffs should be better hero, for. eg -10 to morale, luck and initiative for one week.
In my opinion to limit resurrection cycle hero resurrection should cost:
base price ( for eg. 3000g ) + ( 1000g x hero level ).
And speaking about hero "run, damage and die/flee" strategy. In H6 damage spells are pretty weak. Killing one champion or few cores/elites should not be game breaking.
You lose 1 level everytime you lose a battle, so that can add up and eventually you might lose 3 levels with 3 battles lost and so on. say your level 15, and you lose a battle and drop to 14 and you lose a skill that requires you to be at level 15. You might say you can regain those levels you lose by winning battles, but the further in the game you are it becomes harder to gain the levels you lost.
Because, at the moment, the only thing your gaining is the artifacts of the enemy hero you just beat. That's not enough ...
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