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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: Game mechanics
Thread: Game mechanics
odium
odium


Known Hero
posted October 24, 2011 11:56 PM
Edited by odium at 23:58, 24 Oct 2011.

Game mechanics

I thought it would be nice to have a thread dedicated entirely for game mechanics discussion. So here are some issues I have thus far:

1. Looking in the game manual, my understanding is that each hero point in might power or magic power will give roughly an increase to an ability of 2.5-3%. In the same way, an increase in the might defense or magic defense will give an increase in resistance of roughly 2%. If this is true, than some skills are by definition sub-optimal to others even if at first glance it might seem the other way: for example Archery I and Assaillant II (both give an addition of roughly 6% only that first to ranged attacks while the latter to all kinds of might attacks)

2. What is the formula for a hero's direct attack. I seem to not be able to find it in the manual. I assume is something like base damage*lvlmodifier*statmodifier?

3. How is turn defined in Heroes 6. This is of utmost importance during combat. Playing a bit through the campaigns I noticed that the first turn starts in the moment the creature acts after the particular ability was cast on it. For example if I cast Heroism (lasts 3 turns) on turn 1 on a creature that already acted in the current turn then Heroism will last until turn 4 inclusive. If I cast Heroism on turn 1 on a creature that did not act, then Heroism will last until turn 3 inclusive. If it is like this than here is the problem: in the first case when the creature already acted in turn 1 if an enemy attacks it, then my creature will retaliate with the increased damage from the Heroism or not? If it will, then this is not fair since it will benefit from the effects of Heroism for more than 3 turns.

3b. An issue related to the previous one, how does morale influence the duration of abilities? At the moment, abilities seem to not take morale into account while others do.  

4. Does one point in destiny or leadership mean adding 1% chance or something else?

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bluecamel
bluecamel


Adventuring Hero
posted October 25, 2011 07:06 AM

Quote:

4. Does one point in destiny or leadership mean adding 1% chance or something else?


Not sure about the others, but if you mouse-over your destiny / leadership it will say the % of critting/acting again. IIRC it's 1 point = 1% chance

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted October 25, 2011 07:43 AM
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 07:51, 25 Oct 2011.

1. Archery I gives 6.38% while Assailant II gives about 5% usually if might is not way different...maybe archery may need a bit of a boost I don't know if it even affects magic range attacks even tho description may not say it... I haven't picked either yet to be honest & there's the question of pre-requisites to which stage III skill is better.

2. Hero's attack dmg formula - yep, see fan manual p141.

3. Well you'd think turn means a turn but it could be action & there's so many bugs I sometimes don't know which is which.  Trouble with turn is also defining start of effect and finish of effect if it starts in "middle" of a turn.

3b. I think it's bug but who knows what the designers think?  

4. I think 1% thing also stated in FAQ but not mentioned in fan manual.

My question:
Can anyone enlighten me as to exactly how the game sorts out who goes first when creatures have same initiative?  and what happens on the next turn?  I just don't have the patience to test this myself now till game is fixed better and hovering over unit on atb bar doesn't easily highlight exactly which creature it is when there are multiple of same type.
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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layers
layers

Tavern Dweller
posted October 25, 2011 09:06 AM

i believe like previous heroes, attacker have the turn first if they have the same initiative

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted October 25, 2011 12:15 PM

LOL nice try but my question is bit more complex than that

Let me re-phrase in a hypothetical situation:

if I have 3 stacks praetorians & 2 stacks of vestals attacking creeps of 3 stacks of skeletal spearmen

[all stacks have initiative 25]

from what I think from previous games, it might depend on creature slot location and might also depend on which side acted last on previous turn?
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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forest001
forest001


Known Hero
posted October 25, 2011 12:34 PM

Quote:
...

from what I think from previous games, it might depend on creature slot location and might also depend on which side acted last on previous turn?


or a coin toss

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted October 25, 2011 12:45 PM

I don't believe you because the game designers had a crusade against randomness & went to GREAT lengths to remove as much randomness as they could, didn't they?  I mean you can't even select random faction or random hero for computer player
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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forest001
forest001


Known Hero
posted October 25, 2011 12:56 PM

yeh, you are probably right. I bet it is something along the lines you got in your previews post and depends on 10 variables but it's not a coin toss, but i hope they will patch in some randomness back like RMG and ranodm opponents, or random me

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted October 25, 2011 01:17 PM
Edited by Maurice at 13:18, 25 Oct 2011.

Quote:
i believe like previous heroes, attacker have the turn first if they have the same initiative


As a siege attacker, attacking the same faction as your own, this actually sucks. Reason? Whenever initiative is identical, the unit on the side who didn't act yet gets to go first.

But your catapult always acts first, so after that, the defender will always precede your own units. Essentially, though, the catapult shot doesn't do jack for damage against your enemies, so it's as if the defender gets to draw first blood, instead of the attacker.

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted October 25, 2011 10:47 PM
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 22:48, 25 Oct 2011.

Quote:
...Whenever initiative is identical, the unit on the side who didn't act yet gets to go first...
So in my hypothetical scenario above, I should have included 1 stack of crossbowmen then?  I thought about including it but then I thought it may complicate the issue & not make any difference, ...but it appears it does make a difference because crossbowmen go first?

so no-one knows yet about whether creature slot location makes any difference?  I mean if no difference, then why can't we split stacks differently or combine stacks in tactics phase like in H5?
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 25, 2011 11:50 PM

Im still not sure many thinks but 1 thing i noticed that is worth mentioning. When you cast a spell that lasts for example 2 turns during the action of a certain unit it lasts for 2 whole turns and ends when this units acts second time(assuming no morale). So if you cast pressed strike on a creature that is currently active, it can use it 3 times, same with haven ulti and im guessing all other spells.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted October 26, 2011 12:36 AM
Edited by Maurice at 00:47, 26 Oct 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
...Whenever initiative is identical, the unit on the side who didn't act yet gets to go first...
So in my hypothetical scenario above, I should have included 1 stack of crossbowmen then?  I thought about including it but then I thought it may complicate the issue & not make any difference, ...but it appears it does make a difference because crossbowmen go first?

so no-one knows yet about whether creature slot location makes any difference?  I mean if no difference, then why can't we split stacks differently or combine stacks in tactics phase like in H5?


I can't say for sure. But if the game has to make a decision on which stack goes next, it's usually a stack of the side that didn't control the stack of the previous go. Maybe damage per unit in the stack may also be a factor. I was considering Morale, but that's something Undead don't have.

In your example, with the Sentinels, Sisters and Skeletons, they all have 20 init and their upgrade has 25. Since you attack, you get the first move. Assuming Damage is another discriminator, your Sisters do more damage than the Sentinels on a one-by-one basis, so they get to go first. After your first stack of Sisters had their turn, the first Skeleton stack will have their turn, followed by the second Sister stack. Then the second Skeleton stack will act, after which you get your first Sentinel stack, followed by the last Skeleton stack and then the turn concludes with your remaining two Sentinel stacks. The order between the stacks may also be dependent on initial numbers within the stacks; so the stack with the highest number of Sentinels of the three gets to go first.

In my example, during a Siege you have a Catapult as the attacker, which goes first. Suppose both me and the enemy have only Crossbowmen, then his Crossbowmen get to go first, because they have identical initiative, but my Catapult just acted so now it's the enemies' turn. And that's weird, if you ask me.

Edit: Just checked ingame, but my Praetorians get to act before my Vestals, even though they have the same Initiative. The Vestals do higher damage individually, so we can rule that one out. Hitpoints is also not a discriminator, since my Griffins (init 35, 80 HPs) got to go before the Sun Riders (init 35, 96 HPs). Maybe it's as simple as the order in which they appear in the Beastiary, which has the Praetorians before the Vestals, and the Griffins before the Sun Riders.

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