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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: Seriously WTF
Thread: Seriously WTF This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 17, 2011 07:26 PM

Quote:
All I know is, no matter how hard I try, I can't think of a game more messy than this. I don't know how did they end up releasing it like that, that's true, but why should I excuse them?

You should play more games then. H6 is in bad shap, clearly, but there have been worse release ... way worse ... Civ 5 is the perfect example of what a game release should never be. H5 was also far worse than H6 as well, etc...


Quote:
What am I to think then?

Ubisoft is the first to be blamed. Long before BH.

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted November 17, 2011 07:48 PM
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 19:54, 17 Nov 2011.

Quote:
...Be careful. Someone will undoubtedly mention Heroes V now as if that was even close to being as bad on it's release as this game is.

I'm sorry, but for as bad as H5 was, it doesn't even come close to this joke of a product. H5 didn't have little to no hero selection when starting a game (sorry, I couldn't resist), multiple crashes, units whose abilities didn't work, AI taking control of your hero and then locking the game up, weeks of that put your units into the negative thus ending any further advancement, etc., etc., etc.

Yep.  At least I could play single-player H5 offline a bit without rage quitting [however there was no fan manual at beginning]

& to those of you who think about reference to IQ being disrepectful, it's really meant as a joke about company's lack of wisdom in not learning from the past & it looks like they have no idea what a heroes game is...the way some features of past heroes games that is not even in H6 atm just makes me facepalm too (by themselves each omission is small but adding them all together just makes me sad)

If the game's development time schedule was way too short, then someone may as well say so in the open.  Else like kodial79 said, it looks like lack of control over a game they created themselves or no idea about amount of work required to do the game or not enough high-quality people doing the work.

on-topic: stables, artifacts may also increase movement points
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted November 17, 2011 07:59 PM

@Nelgirith:

Certainly Ubisoft did not ask BH to allow such childish bugs into the game and less than competitive AI...

Ubisoft could be blamed for the Town Screens, I suppose. But that the Imperial Griffin's dive does not work for example, is BH's incompetence. That dynasty weapons disappear, is BH's fault again. That the AI is not challenging, is not Ubi's fault. Am I right?

Not that I'm excusing Ubisoft any, mind you. As much as I find BH lacking in programming so much do I find Ubisoft lacking in managing too.




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B0rsuk
B0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted November 17, 2011 09:40 PM

They get away with it, they know gamers will suck it up.
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Lithium_111
Lithium_111


Hired Hero
posted November 17, 2011 10:13 PM

i see alot of unsatisfied people here, well i hope this game shapes up for the best really coz my love for heroes is eternal XD


off topic: can u recommend me any similar awesome games except kings bounty? i need something that hooks me up real good, i dont like real time strategy like starcraft and these stuff, i need something where i can build up my kingdom and upgrade my units, just like heroes


any recommendations?
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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted November 17, 2011 11:04 PM

Perhaps the deciples series?
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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 17, 2011 11:22 PM
Edited by Nocturnal at 23:22, 17 Nov 2011.

Quote:
Perhaps the deciples series?


Except Disciples 3 is more buggy than Heroes 6
I haven't played D2 tough. Heard it was great.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted November 17, 2011 11:30 PM

Disciples II, Age of Wonders 2: Shadow Magic and if you don't mind ancient graphics and very simple animations - Dominions 3. I especially recommend the latter if you like complex strategy games with tons of details.

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esvath
esvath


Known Hero
posted November 18, 2011 07:18 AM

Civilization IV, with Fall from Heaven mod, or Master of Mana modmod.

Granted, these mods are focused more on strategy than battle, but with the ability to build Pyre Zombies, Angels and various kind of Demons, they satisfy my thirst for fantasy games. You can even choose arcane technologies to research in the Master of Mana mod.

Fall from Heaven : http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=190
Master of Mana : http://www.masterofmana.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=7

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B0rsuk
B0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted November 18, 2011 08:45 AM
Edited by B0rsuk at 08:49, 18 Nov 2011.

This may not be a lot like Heroes, but it's still a turn-based strategy game in a fantasy setting. And it has hexes.

Warlock: Master of the Arcane (not yet released)
Publisher - Paradox Interactive
Developer - Ino-Co Plus
http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/warlock-master-of-the-arcane
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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted November 18, 2011 09:25 AM
Edited by DoubleDeck at 09:28, 18 Nov 2011.

Quote:
@Nelgirith:

Certainly Ubisoft did not ask BH to allow such childish bugs into the game and less than competitive AI...

Ubisoft could be blamed for the Town Screens, I suppose. But that the Imperial Griffin's dive does not work for example, is BH's incompetence. That dynasty weapons disappear, is BH's fault again. That the AI is not challenging, is not Ubi's fault. Am I right?


Yes agree, I mean BH make a complicated game so we can't blame them for detailed programming problems (let time fix these), but one thing that I thought they would get annoyed with while testing:

Tactics -> not remembering troop placement - simple coding I'm sure, I mean this is tiresome every time, did they not see this?

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 18, 2011 10:05 AM

Quote:
@Nelgirith:

Certainly Ubisoft did not ask BH to allow such childish bugs into the game and less than competitive AI...

Ubisoft could be blamed for the Town Screens, I suppose. But that the Imperial Griffin's dive does not work for example, is BH's incompetence. That dynasty weapons disappear, is BH's fault again. That the AI is not challenging, is not Ubi's fault. Am I right?

Not that I'm excusing Ubisoft any, mind you. As much as I find BH lacking in programming so much do I find Ubisoft lacking in managing too.





Erwan has the final decision upon game mechanics. Ubisoft has the final word upon deadlines. Ubisoft has the final word on what can or can't be released. Black Hole has to bend to the rules and has to set priorities on what they can or can't fix before the deadline.

The game was NOT ready for release and I'm quite sure that if they were given the choice (or if they were the ones to decide) Black Hole would not have released the game in October, but it's Ubisoft who had the final word.

If I ask you for a 1000 pages essay for sunday morning, I'm sure it's going to suck. Whereas if I let you 1 month, it's most likely going to be much better (allbeit not perfect).

The same thing happened with H6. It was absolutely not ready in June (we've seen it during the closed beta), but instead of letting them work on the game, BH has been imposed another deadline : the open beta ... The game HAD to be playable for the open beta, and we know it wasn't. During the beta, BH was forced to work on what wasn't working in the game (especially the AI) instead of working on our bugs feedback with the result we know.

Even if the AI is still quite bad, it's A LOT better than it was during the beta, so they worked on that aspect, but they simply had no time to fix the bugs. To me, Black Hole sure has its faults, but it's most definately Ubisoft who is responsible for this failure. It's always the case with companies like Sony, EA or Ubisoft.

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radox
radox


Known Hero
posted November 18, 2011 10:51 AM

What about SIMPLY putting a number next to the movement cursor so you just get to know in how many days you will arrive? Or this was again "too big task to be done before the deadline"?

The truth is that Blackhole are cheap, inexperienced developers that have been chosen by Ubisoft just to save money. They have probably never played any of the Heroes games and that's why they don't know what to do with it.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted November 18, 2011 10:59 AM

So you mean to tell me that when beta testers first reported the Griffin Diving Assault bug, Ubi told BH not to fix it?

BETA lasted so long, I don't know their schedule but I supposed there would be time to fix that one bug which is poking right in everyone's eye and makes the whole game look ridiculously bad.

And that's just one example.

The deadlines and priorites are provided by Ubisoft, true. But other than that it's up to BH to deliver. And that they failed to do, despite of any constraints Ubisoft came up with.

Many other developers have tyrannical bosses over their heads too but I have not seen another game being as messed up as this one. It still feels like BETA.

Well, in fact other than the blinking cursor and the laptop issues, I don't know if they fixed anything else. Well, they said they tweaked the AI but I see it's as dumb as ever and no difference from how it was in the BETA. Which leads me to believe that they don't know what they are doing...


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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted November 18, 2011 11:42 AM
Edited by DoubleDeck at 11:43, 18 Nov 2011.

Yeah, it's the same in sport:

If the team plays well -> you think good players
If the team plays badly -> you think bad coach

Coach = Ubisoft
Players = Blackhole

So bad game, bad coach (ie. Ubisoft)

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted November 18, 2011 12:35 PM

funny analogy there DoubleDeck...
also ironic why everyone blamed Nival in H5 for many things but in H6 case it's Ubi?

I don't believe Ubisoft has to tell Black Hole how to design/develop/program every single detail about the game...Both companies should have been aware of the schedule/deadlines in the first place? (originally April?)

However if the first 6 months of development were wasted because no-one could decide/come up with a suitable overall basis/concept for the game or if basis of design/concept was fluffed around a lot by Ubi, then I would understand. [this is pure speculation ofc & I don't know if Black Hole gets paid a fixed lump sum or gets paid certain hourly rates]

I thought H3 was:  NWC comes up with game design/development & 3DO published it.  Sorry, I must be mistakened if it's not like this.  Bad news for PC games

Regardless of what it is, thank you Nelgirith for your post

I also hope people don't expect patch 1.2 as a "solve everything" patch because you could get disappointed.  I'm sure things will improve eventually unless something like bankruptcy occurs.
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted November 18, 2011 01:03 PM

Nelgirith has it more or less exactly right. Well, truth be told, I'd say almost everybody in this thread makes a valid point as to why H6 is far from finished. I'd like to write much more on this subject, but the NDA means it'll probably have to wait a few years.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted November 18, 2011 01:36 PM

I laugh at the mere idea of bankruptcy over Heroes VI. Why, did they even throw any money in it? From my point of view it looks like they used up only their pocket money and that's including the meals and parties.

That's first and foremost, the greatest of Ubisoft's faults and I identify it as the main root for all of Heroes VI's shortcomings. But that said, I consider BH equally responsible.


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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!

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zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted November 18, 2011 01:40 PM

hey guys, why dont you just lower your expectaitions about the game ? See it that way - in 2-3 patches most of the bugs will be fixed and balance and other issues could be improved by us (i mean as community).
So in like 6 months we should have a playable game. And thats not gonna get changed no matter how much we whine, spam, cry and complain.Ubihole are doing what they can, they just need more time.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted November 18, 2011 01:49 PM

Quote:
So in like 6 months we should have a playable game.


It should have been playable right from the start. You don't buy a new car and have the car salesman tell you that the wheel will come next week and the tires will come in a month. And oh, the seats will come in 3 months time.

Looking at it from a business perspective, I'd take a guess that some people higher up - suits with ties - made decisions on time schedules, while technicians knew they couldn't deliver in that time, at the quality level desired. Happens everywhere, even where I work, so I don't see why it wouldn't work that way for a gaming company and its publisher.

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