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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: Map Editor Discussion
Thread: Map Editor Discussion This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted November 21, 2011 01:52 PM
Edited by mike80d at 13:53, 21 Nov 2011.

Map Editor Discussion

Am I the only person who thinks the map editor is terrible?  

I became very proficient with the Homm5 Map editor, and must say that the Heroes 6 editor is not intuitive at all.  Most every basic thing in the homm5 editor could be done with the drop down menus, a mouse, and the escape key.  Meanwhile the Heroes 6 editor seems to require an enormous amount of memorization of obscure hot keys to perform even the most basic functions (like rotate the angle).  

I'm hoping that I'm wrong, and someone here has figured out that it is very easy to use.  But I spent an hour in the Heroes 6 map editor yesterday and could not have been more frustrated or disappointed.

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted November 22, 2011 04:07 AM

So I take it no map maker types have opened the Heroes 6 editor?  I'm curious to see if it is only me who thinks that the editor is very difficult and unintuitive.  

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted November 22, 2011 04:12 AM

surely you've read the stickied thread Heroes 6 HC custom maps?
as well as this thread http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=36606?
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted November 22, 2011 04:18 AM

No, I did not.  Thanks.

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted November 22, 2011 04:44 AM

no worries, you can see that enthusiasm may have changed
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 22, 2011 05:07 PM

I am still stunned that UBI+Nival/BH has shown zero understanding of what the Editor could-of/should-of have been by now.

Seeing your response, Fuir's and some other's just confirms the obvious for me. I've watched the UBI thread for a while and <imo> it was pretty much; 2 or 3 obvious partial-programmers trying to find their way.

[rant]I don't think they will "ever" understand the Editor was/is half of the Vision of HoMM. Was there not "one" map-maker involved with these three companies that ever saw the editor in H3? What is so difficult to understand!? Here we were at HC, collectively pumping out an awesome list of improvements/ideas etc. for months. Free innovations from many talented and dedicated map-makers; to get delivered an initially undocumented mind-bender? Download this... so you might be able to do this?

What?; the unusually long-life of H3 has no sound reasoning behind the current activity here at HC? Just dumb luck? There was no intelligent design/UI behind the A.I. AND the Editor; people are still immersed in it only because of...?

{/rant]

I only posted because I "may" be a good example of why constructive responses to your thread "might" be limited. If it's off-topic to you, HCM & I will delete.


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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted November 22, 2011 08:45 PM

Markkur, thanks for the response.  And I wish you the best of luck in your impressive Homm5 undertaking that I saw you are still working on

That said, I think there should be two threads devoted to the Heroes6 map editor.  The first, which exists, should be about the maps created that are out there.  But there should also be a second thread to discuss the viability of the editor and the development of an editor guide.

As it is now, I cannot figure out the editor

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted November 23, 2011 02:50 AM

Quote:
Markkur, thanks for the response.  And I wish you the best of luck in your impressive Homm5 undertaking that I saw you are still working on

That said, I think there should be two threads devoted to the Heroes6 map editor.  The first, which exists, should be about the maps created that are out there.  But there should also be a second thread to discuss the viability of the editor and the development of an editor guide.

As it is now, I cannot figure out the editor


Ok, I spent about 1.5 hours in the editor today and figured a lot out.  Its not quite as bad as I thought it was, but it definitely could be more user friendly.

For those looking to have fun with the map editor, my first suggestion is to create your own Hotkeys for the basic functions.  The default hotkeys are rather horrendous lol

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 23, 2011 04:48 AM

Quote:
but it definitely could be more user friendly.


That was always what I wanted. It was never about my needs and you're more adept with this stuff than I am. It was about getting the editor back to everyone as it was with H3.  

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fiur
fiur


Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
posted November 23, 2011 07:32 PM

The other day I gave the edtior 1 more try and I got the hang of it now...
only thing who is kinda annoying is that U need to paint all those layers  
(layers of owned territory, battle grounds and so on.....)

When/if I get my map making spirit back Im gonna do an remake of my H5 map (H6 version) of Art of War.... (for a start)

the fun part with this editor is the trigger part
there U really can do alot...
____________
Hack and Slash....

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 23, 2011 09:48 PM
Edited by markkur at 21:50, 23 Nov 2011.

Well, it's good you both are beginning to find your way but does not that fact highlight my concern; that it would not be user-friendly?

I'm curious; Can you say that you see a new larger mapping community that we had with H5?

I wanted a growing interest in mapping instead of just another elite core of map-makers making only a few maps because of RL time-contraints

You know, like having a person "do a couple of dozen clicks" and whip up something decent for you, just for the fun of it. <imo> the RMG in H3 could have been perfected... long ago.  As it was; with "Scrolls placed every third step or duplicate/triplicate objects right next to each other; that stuff could have been tweaked because <imo> the rest was instant and...pretty good.

I hope it works-out for you both, you did spend the money

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted November 23, 2011 10:20 PM

Well at least we don't have to wait six months for the editor to be released with H6, an advantage over H5.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 23, 2011 10:43 PM

People want complex and perfect games, with editor 5 years old baby user friendly. I don't believe this is possible. Take a look at Disciples II editor, a much better editor than Heroes III (as being the reference as super user friendly). It is complex and difficult to work with, but you can do things you can't in H3. Therefore the maps done with, 100-200 at max, were much better than  H3 million maps out. Just keep studying it, in a couple of months you will rule.
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Era II mods and utilities

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Vindicator
Vindicator


Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
posted November 23, 2011 11:22 PM

I think a very user-friendly editor is the AOE 3 editor; it was very simple to use for me. Now, I'm not sure if it was easy to do complex stuff with it (since I'm a newb in this) but it was very easy to put down buildings and units.

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted November 24, 2011 02:23 AM

Quote:
People want complex and perfect games, with editor 5 years old baby user friendly. I don't believe this is possible. Take a look at Disciples II editor, a much better editor than Heroes III (as being the reference as super user friendly). It is complex and difficult to work with, but you can do things you can't in H3. Therefore the maps done with, 100-200 at max, were much better than  H3 million maps out. Just keep studying it, in a couple of months you will rule.


I disagree.  The Heroes 6 map editor could be a heck of a lot easier to use while still maintaining the same level of complexity.  

And yes Markkur, this does highlight how poorly made the editor is.  It really is a shame

Fiur, I haven't even messed with the triggers yet... I'm too stuck on trying to figure out basic functions and cosmetics in the map.  Example - I cannot for the life of me figure out how to create those large cliffs (seen in every heroes 6 map), lava, etc.

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KingImp
KingImp


Famous Hero
posted November 24, 2011 06:23 AM

Quote:
Well at least we don't have to wait six months for the editor to be released with H6, an advantage over H5.


True, but considering how damn complicated this one is, it will probably be 6 months before we see any quality maps created.

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fiur
fiur


Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
posted November 24, 2011 07:20 AM

Quote:

Fiur, I haven't even messed with the triggers yet... I'm too stuck on trying to figure out basic functions and cosmetics in the map.  Example - I cannot for the life of me figure out how to create those large cliffs (seen in every heroes 6 map), lava, etc.


Try the "Scale" function
and for the lava try to change the color on the water..............
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Hack and Slash....

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 24, 2011 04:31 PM

Quote:
And yes Markkur, this does highlight how poorly made the editor is.  It really is a shame


You probably mean the U/I correct? The capabilites of the Editor sound really sweet.

Maybe I've not been clear enough all along, it's like this to me.
( @ Sal I am NOT goin to toss in other games and other editors.  Why should I if I can stay right at homme and clearly make my point.)

To me, the whole sour-shibang is about "TIME". In this instance it appears a rehash of H5, e.g. some great stuff that can be done but hours of getting to the place to master that one part of a much greater whole.

I have had the fans in mind all along. It appears the Devs. of the last 2 releases have been more interested in protecting their own turf i.e. if a yahoo like me has to invest 1,000 hours of RL to master the monster. "Knowledge is power" ya know

There are other considerations too, like health etc. but I'll leave all that alone. It takes too much time...to make an important point/gripe too long.


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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 24, 2011 05:42 PM

We have a sticky tread assigned to all map editor and custom maps discussion here
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tuinebap88
tuinebap88

Tavern Dweller
posted November 24, 2011 06:08 PM

do heroes vi map generator have the "random map generator"? couldn't find it anywhere.

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