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Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: Pointers to playing Poker better.
Thread: Pointers to playing Poker better.
Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 29, 2012 07:34 AM bonus applied by Mytical on 29 Jan 2012.

Pointers to playing Poker better.

This is for now Popular Texas Hold-em
The good news about poker is that anyone can play & anyone can win.
I have been playing poker since i was 5 years old & I seem to somehow win more hands then lose.
Ya I did not proof read it.
It is a long one, but I taught many how to play & they usually win alot of money at casinos.
Of course yall dont have to read it.


Of course if anyone has pointers they can share as well.

I love poker & if I had more extra money, I would play in bigger tournies.
Otherwise i will just keep playing in small ones.

Pointer #1.
Keep being unpredictable.
Play the same hands differently.
If you get trips on the flop, dont keep playing them the same way.
Good players will pick off your predictability & the odds of you trying to bluff or they will fold their hand if you play tight & only raise on big hands.
Change gears. Play aggressive for a bit & then try playing passive & being patient.
Being unpredictable helps fool even the good players.

Pointer 2.
knowing your opponent.

Many players can be read, either by how they move or they play their game.
Win big, lose small is my motto.
If your in a tourney or even cash games, the longer you play with someone, the better you learn the player.

Take your time, dont make rush calls. Every one makes a move for a reason.
Knowing an opponent helps explain why they make certain moves.
Many opponents make predictable moves.
Usually depending on what they do.
If an aggressor raises, it can be many things from small pockets from connectors to mediocre cards like KJ etc.
If a passive player raises, it usually means a big hand.
Be patient & pay attention to each style of players.

Aggressive players usually play alot of hands & throw alot of chips.
Usually they will play with alot of mediocre hands & if lucky some big hands.
You may have to fold alot of hands, never tangle against an amateur Aggressor. Many dont fold alot & will try to out play ya.
Find your best spots & try to gamble with him/her with the best hand.
A good way to win as well is if ya got alot of chips & you got suited Connectors.
K-J of hearts, 6-7 spades etc.
Usually if you can hit the nuts, you can get alot of pots.
Checking to aggressors helps as well.
If ya know they will always raise.
Sometimes accumulating chips comes to check raises.
Hit a good hand, or even a big ace.
Try checking your hand to the aggressor & you reraise more then half the main pot.
If the pot is really big & ya hit the nuts, you can be the aggressor & raise him. Usually they will call it or reraise ya.
Many amateur aggressors have a hard time folding, especially big cards like KK & AK.

If a player is more passive & patient, you can switch gears on those players & take small pots.
They will fold & whenever they call, you can bluff them latter alot of times as well.
Dont keep doing it though. They will catch on.
If a passive player raises ya or re raise ya, usually that means they got the goods. Unless you hit the nuts, then usually that is a good thing.

Pointer #3
Always go with the odds.
Even the best hands before 5th street does not make it the best.

Say if your opponent has A-7 off suit & ya got 9-10 of spades & the flop comes 7-8-2 with 2 spades. Your odds are how many outs ya got.
Which means you got 25 outs to hit the winning hand.
Most likely 19 outs to get the sure win, which makes your hand the fav.
11 outs on flush draws
8 outs for a straight.
plus the 3 outs for each possible pair you may get.
Basically the better outs ya got, the better odds you got to win the pot & going for the odds.
Of course it is probability & luck as well.
Also use common sense as well.
If you already crossed 4th street & you still got 9-11 outs to hit your outs, depending on the raise, sometimes an over raise is not worth it.
Remember win big lose small.

Pointer #4 Pot odds
Alot of players use mathematics.
Many players will put you to the test.
You want to gamble on pot odds. Ya dont want to make calls on pots that are big & you have not committed alot of chips in the pot with mediocre hands.
Now if ya had AK or a good pocket, try reraising him more then he raised ya.
Usually it means 3 things. He will call which means his hand is not as great as he advertised with his original raise.
Usually if he had big pockets or AK, he will reraise ya more or all in.
If he folds, then that means ya out played him/her.
He he re raises ya, that usually means a coin flip or someone is dominating each other.
A coin flip is a pocket pair vs 2 over cards.

I usually know what the bet or when to raise or call without thinking.
Ya need to know how much to pay & how much to bet depending on the pot.
Many amateur players tend to raise too much or call most of their chips off on just a draw like a straight draw.
I seen many amateurs make huge raises with big pocket pairs & chase off opponents.
If a pot is not that big, then the chances are a bet bigger then the pot will scare an opponent away.
If he/she calls then your probably losing.
Sometimes a betting pattern makes no sense from how they play before the flop & usually curiosity means two things, that they hit the goods, or usually bluffing.
Like i said, take your time & try to evaluate the hand & how they played it.
Remember every hand played in the present.

If a pot is low say 700 & you only put 35% in the pot.
Say someone raised ya 1000 chips. We call that an over raise.
Count the odds of the pot.
If your hand is only descent, then ya know ya might have to give it up.
You will be dishing out more & more chips & then you would be committed.

There are times where ya may raise & someone goes all in on ya. He may not have alot of chips.
Say the flop has been dealt.
Limit is 300-600
Say the pot is 3700 & you raised 2200 chips.
Your opponent goes all in with 4400 more.
with your raise that would be 5900 chips. With his raise that would make it 10300 chips. That is alot of chips out there & your pretty committed depending on factors.
Usually an all in short stacked moves are desperation.
If ya hit a good pair, then a call could be good.
You put yourself in that position, you usually have to call it.
The only way you would fold is if you totally have no pairs or nothing & a bad hand.
Never put your chips at risk if ya dont have the cards to back it up.
Many short stacked players will gamble with alot of hands.


Pointer #5 A good time to raise or not

If ya get ACES as your 2 cards, you usually dont want to play with more then one person.
It kills your odds that a flush or a straight draw can crack them.
If ya get aces & your one of the first players to bet, ya most likely would want to raise.
Of course ya want action, but you dont want too many people call ya as well.
Unless ya hit trips, the odds are you could lose to a drawing hand.

If your on the button, you can raise to make it as if your stealing the pot.

If a player is on the low stack. Try raising them alot unless they are over aggressive, then ya can let them make the big move.
Many players on the low stack will wait for their spots.
Usually only the bigger stacks should do this.

If your a tight player (Passive), then raising usually tells players you got a good hand.
Aggressive players when they raise tells people they can have anything.

Basically if ya raise during the early part of the betting before the flop, ya want to have a game plan.
Already know what your going to do before ya do it.
Change gears as well during the hand if ya know you are beat or if ya know you got an opponent.

Hitting trips on the flop with Pockets is interesting. Many players like to trap players by checking, sometimes that is not always the case.
Usually with small pockets, you are usually calling a raise.
Of course ya can trap a player by checking with them.
They call & now 4th street comes & now ya got to raise or you lose out on a possible big pots.
If they call, that means they hit something or on a draw.
If they fold then ya lost out.

Sometimes raising hitting the flop helps on some players, especially aggressors.
Say ya got pocket 5's & the flop comes 5-9-Q.
If your first, throw a bet out. If they raise ya, then ya usually know they got a Q & usually ya got them.
if they just call, that could mean a descent queen or draws.

Pointer #6 Bluffing & playing the player then the cards.

Bluffing basically means portraying a hand that ya dont got & taking chips from your opponent.
If ya sense weakness or if ya think you can get away with it, then try it.
It works great with passive players.
If ya want to get a little shady with thw worst hand 7-2, then try pretending they are aces & play the flop like ya just hit it big.
Be careful. If they start calling then re raising ya, usually it means 2 things, the most common. They got a better hand.
Or they think your trying to punk them & try to out play ya.

Ya cant just rely on winning the hand, sometimes playing as if you always have the hands makes the other players fear ya or come at ya more. Depending on your style of play.

Ya can raise chips to take down small pots with no hands & no pairs.
Good players dont always have to have the best hands to win pots.

Pointer #7 Dont show weakness or obvious.

There are ways to show weakness & players will pick off on it.
Basically raising before the flop, then checking & not following through shows a sign of weakness (Not hitting your hand.

Raising alot before the flop & then raising less after the flop shows a sign of 2 things.
Either ya missed your hand & you dont want to lose alot of chips or your trying to lure the player in the hand when you hit a great flop like a flush etc.

Like i said ya got to change your game.
small raises in a big pot usually tells players ya got a great hand & your just trying to let them stay in.
Sometimes a big raise with a great hand can show players ya may be bluffing or ya may have a good hand.

Making it like you are trying to chase someone out to get a descent size pots can throw a player off, especially if ya did it with the nuts.



THERE MAY BE MORE SOON, but I am tired now LOL.















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dragon_slayer
dragon_slayer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
toss toss toss
posted January 29, 2012 08:14 AM

pecu

That was suprisingly well written! You know your poker my man.

As a passive player myself, I tend to struggle with really aggressive players. Especially if your at a friends house and your all having a laugh. They can be really hard to read and its hard to tell if they've got a hand or just trying to scare you into folding.

I tend to invest alot of chips on hands that rely on the 4th and 5th cards. When the cards I need don't come, it gets me in trouble. For example:

Ive got a 5-7 offsuit in the hand  and J-Q-8 is the flop. Ill chase that 5-6-7-8-9, even though I need both cards to come up and theres some high cards in the flop that someone could pair with. I guess i'm stupid like that. Sometimes the cards come up.  sometimes I just scare my opponent into folding, maKing them believe I have  a straight 8-Q. I can usually snag big pots this way, but sometimes it fails and I loose allot of chips.
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 29, 2012 08:33 AM
Edited by Aculias at 08:35, 29 Jan 2012.

Sometimes it is good to test the waters.
Sometimes even with a flop like that.
Try throwing some chips out there.
See what they do.

You can really pick up some reads on times depending on if they raise, fold or just call.

Alot of times raise means a good hand, a fold means he folded the best hand & just a call is a draw or a pair.

P.S dont put yourself in a bad position.
Testing the waters is not throwing a big raise. Basically your trying to see what he has. Throw a regular raise.



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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 29, 2012 11:17 AM

I have a friend who is obsessed with this game and just a "bingo player". I hate his playing style. I never was into it that much. Was playing small and had 3,5 M

Then, yesterday I sat on a bigger table. It was more fun really. But I lost and lost and lost.
And removed the application.

The reason is the main thing in the game is luck. And however well you play, it doesn't matter if you are unlucky.

I had AA. Another A came to the table. Noone raised. I waited for the first round to check if someone would raise. Noone did. So I was sure noone had such a good hand. Then I raised of course. There was a woman with 100M. She just checked whatever I raised. Then the cards opened, she had the other A along with one pair, so had full house. I lost everything.

Then I got another nice hand. Flush. I had two spades, three on the table. Noone was raising again. I had K of spades as the highest. Turned out she also had spades flush but had A of spades. So I lost all.

What's the frigging possibilty? People win millions with one pair of 3's!
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Dragon_Slayer
Dragon_Slayer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
toss toss toss
posted January 29, 2012 12:49 PM

So ive been playing internet poker for the past couple hours. Reading your thread seemed to put me in the mood...

Man, its a completely different ballgame out there. Reading your opponent is next to impossible. Everybody plays conservitavly (sp?), so its hard to read peoples moves.  

Ive got poker night at a mates next weekend. Im trying to get some practice in before then. Last time we played i came 2nd, missed out on $200 winners pot. When finally it was me and just one other left, it was getting late. I started to bet without thinking. I was chip leader by a fair bit, so i always raised large amounts to try scare the other guy into folding. I figured that with big/small blinds, he would eventually run out of chips and go all in. It didnt work, and most times he called my raises, which screwed me because i usualy had no good cards. This time ill try to stay focused till the end.

btw, i nominate this thread for my Taverns Greatest! Poker advice for the ages!
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 29, 2012 07:46 PM

Well Slayer, that is the net. That is why I stopped playing alot.
I had a flush beaten by straight flushes & aces getting cracked 8-10 times which is unnatural. It is hard to win in online poker.
That is why there is more donkey's then good players lol.
That is why tv poker has so many young people. They play internet style which is all in all in all in LOL.

You play with your friends all the time.
You should know each of their play styles at least to a point by now.
It helps you exploit.
Of course there is luck but skill comes a long way.

Nocturnal if ya read my part about aces, you would see that the odds of winning with aces does decrease if ya have more then one person in the for that reason alone.
Especially if your in early position.
Not betting on the flop with say 2 spades on the board is just inviting players to hit their hand.
With aces, ya need to bet your normal raise, which i hope is 3 times the blind (Standard good raise).
Raising before the flop takes out crap hands others may hold & possibilities like 6-7 suited etc.
Know the board & know if ya got aces & people are calling your hand that they may have draws.
Pay attention to the cards on the table.
Raise big & chase out them cards.
If they want to gamble, then do it knowing you did it with the best hand
Always go in with the better % to win in the best scenario.
That is all that ya can do.

Of course there is alot of luck, but there is alot of skill too.
That is why you always see poker pros in the final table with 1000's & 1000's of donkeys & noobs

Know the play style, that is why Ivey is considered one of the best players.
He cant read faces, but he knows their play styles really well.






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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 29, 2012 07:53 PM

Oh & the internet reading people is a little different.
Usually you can tell how they play.
Always an all in player.
Usually play with any hand they get.
Go with the best hand & hope for the best.

Over raisers are basically the same & will go all in.

Usually net players play the board & I knew sometimes if they was carrying aces.

Usually patience helped me with a few bluff tries.
It is hard to bluff online unless ya got chips.
There is even alot of passive players as well who fold alot.
If you sit on their right, you can take their chips alot of times if no one else is in the pot.

No money to make anymore, now that it is against the law to gamble online now.
Most dont care & just play for fun.

I play at Local casino's & the BAY101 OPEN which is the best Poker Tour place because of the bounties .
I cant afford to play in that, but i love playing in the small tournies
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted January 29, 2012 09:13 PM

Nice post, Acu.

I don't play a lot of Poker, and when I do I prefer stud.  More of a Bridge person myself.

One thing I've never really figured out about Texas Hold'em is how do you figure out what to bet (if at all) on the first round, when you only have two cards.  Any thoughts?  
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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Vindicator
Vindicator


Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
posted January 29, 2012 09:19 PM

Great post, man. Poker is fun, although I'm not too good myself. Normally just fool around with my friends, don't actually bet anything. Corribus, I would just match the money that's already there; you're not really going to lose anything anyway, since it's not going to be that much.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted January 29, 2012 09:31 PM

Ok, so how do you decide whether to open?  Just seems like there's little basis, with only 2 cards, to determine how good your hand is likely to be.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 29, 2012 09:36 PM

Usually 3 times the bet from the blinds is a good bet that most do.

Like if the blinds are 300-600, then a good rasise would be between 1800-2400.

100-200 blinds, anywhere between 600-800 is descent to start with.

It depends on what ya want to do.
If ya keep changing up your betting style, players can pick up off that as well.
Try to keep the same betting pattern that suits ya.
If ya got aces or 4-5 suited.
If ya raise to low with Aces, we pick up on that.

Unusual betting patterns do get picked off, so try not to change it too much.


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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted January 29, 2012 09:59 PM

The reason why you want to bet that early on in the game is that you want to lose some of the opposition. Your hand might be pretty good, but like you say it's just two cards, so if you don't raise anything some opponents with worse cards than you might call for free. If that happens there could be too many for you to have a good chance of winning. It's easier to win if there's just two people fighting for the pot than there would be if you were four or three.
So in short, you want to make the odds of winning better, and you do that by scaring opponents away with a little bet.

God, it has been too long since I've played Poker.
If I start doing it again, I'm sure to play this little thread a visit...
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 29, 2012 10:29 PM

If ya want to play with more then 2 in a pot, i would prefer a drawing hand. If your hand does not help ya after the flop, you can get in on it cheap.
If ya hit a draw, you got alot of outs to hit your hand & you may win a big pot. (I prefer not to play a drawing hand if you can not afford a big raise.)
If ya hit the nuts, then you can let them dig their own grave.
If 1-2 high cards show up. Like say K-Q-3 & you just hit the nuts flush, try betting. If someone calls, you probably know he may of hit a king.
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 30, 2012 06:38 AM

Pointer #8 HEADS UP!

That is a whole new game & remember that there is only 4 cards out of 52 cards total that you & the other player has. So the odds are hitting a pair is not as likely for the other player & for yourself.
As I first stated it is a probability of course.
That is why high cards are more desired.
That is also why you should not call an all in raise with your high card being a jack.
Chances are you may not hit that Jack because of all the cards that have not been dealt yet.

Aces are very desired, even the A-2 off suit.
Alot of times before the flop Aces  could hold up.
Getting a pocket pair is very hard in heads up poker.
If ya happen to get one, you probably want to raise it.

If you are low stack, you probably would want to go all in with Q or higher, or a suited connector.
You might as well go with more probability & odds to possibly hit your hand, then relying on just one card.

Remember heads up opens alot of moves that ya usually would not do with 4 or more players.
Basically it is you vs him/her & no one else.
If you decide to be passive, you will get blinded off.
Ya have to gamble & ya have to be aggressive.
Occasionally fold the really bad 2-9, 2-7, 3-6 hands, unless ya want to try & play the player.

It does depend as well with the limits.
If the limits are still small, then ya can take your time more & fold more hands, but dont wait forever.
You can use my other steps to try & win.

If the blinds are ave or higher, then waiting too long could shorten ya.
The blinds are bog & 3 times the blinds is always the ave raise.

Now if ya got the big stack & your opponent is short stacked.
Take advantage of it.
Act like ya got the big stack & always out pressure on him.
He/she will fold hands to look for good spots.
If your hand is not that great when the player raises all in, just fold & cont.

Heads up is unique & play smart.
All moves happen for a reason.
Take your time & try to make the correct move.
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