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| Thread: A Song of Ice and Fire |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Drakon-Deus 
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 09, 2012 09:22 PM |
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official HC fantasy literature thread
I believe it's the LoTR of this day and age, although they're only loosely similar, as in they have dragons and magic and kings. George RR Martin had a very different idea of fantasy in mind but he managed to create a world like Prof Tolkien. Stilll he ain't got nothing on the Silmarillion IMO. I think Tolkien's War of the Ring lacked just a few things to make it perfect, more kings, more intrigues.
That being said, I have read the first two volumes (Game of Thrones, Clash of Kings) and saw the serial. I liked the actors playing Robert Baratheon, Catelyn Stark, Tyrion Lannister and Daenerys Targaryen.
I have sort of a fanboy obsession for the late prince Rhaegar killed by that Boarmonger.
The Lannisters are all serpents, only Tyrion is alright but I wouldn't be caught dead in Casterly Rock or on the Iron Throne.
I find it interesting that there are no really "good and evil" characters but more like real people, unlike Tolkien's Middle-Earth. The Starks were alright, Ned was too hesitant, no mtach for the Lions, though. I like Jon Snow too.
Jaqen H'ghar is also a great character but I won't sopil anything, I hope. I also want Dany to come and burn down the traitors castles to the ground with her Dothraki. Oh and to see Emilia Clarke undressed again.
I just spent a great deal of my pocket money for A Storm of Swords but heck it's worth it, even the cover is beautiful.
So, what are your thoughts? Good? Bad? Exceptional? Favorite characters? etc...
PS I can't wait for video games, but definitely not RPG, maybe TBS or RTS.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted February 09, 2012 09:28 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 21:28, 09 Feb 2012.
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I stopped reading them after the third novel. Five years is too long to wait between books.
In some ways Martin has gone down the same path as Robert Jordan. He lost control of his story, and outside influences (the HBO thing, and now video games) have been too much of a distraction. Maybe he'll finish it before he dies, and if that happens I'll read them all at one time, but in the interim I've moved onto other fantasy authors who are equally talented and actually finish what they set out to do, such as Joe Abercrombie.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 09, 2012 09:32 PM |
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yeah and with 2 more novels planned I think things are getting long-winded, even for 7 Kingdoms.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted February 09, 2012 09:48 PM |
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The problem in the publishing industry is, I think, that once an author becomes popular, editors become unwilling or unable to actually do what editors are supposed to do: edit and enforce a reliable time frame for completion.
Take a look at Jordan's books. The first several were absolutely fantastic, combining good writing with a brisk pace. And then they just crashed to a halt - each book taking longer and longer to finish and becoming more and more bloated with needless exposition that moved the plot nowhere. There comes a point where the story just gets too bloated to manage effectively, and it's usually at this point that the story is also immensely popular and editors are too afraid to go in a muck with success.
The first novel of Song of Ice and Fire probably went through numerous editing cycles before it was published, and the editors probably gave Martin a very strict time frame for the next two novels. After all, he needs them more than they need him at that point. The shorter time frame and more hands-on approach by the editor limits an author's ability to add needless fluff, and the novel reads much better as a result. Then the series becomes popular and the editor knows it has a cash cow, so the editor says to the author, "well take as much time as you need" and the author also knows he's in the drivers' seat now - he can write it how he wants and if the editor doesn't like it, he'll shop it somewhere else. And that's how you get on these 5 year development cycles with bloated doorstoppers as the finished products.
I haven't read Feast for Crows or Dance with Dragons, but from the review on Amazon, it does appear the these latter novels do little to move the story forward, are overly long and filled with too much expositoin.
So as I said, same path as Robert Jordan. Which is a shame, because the first few novels in the series were near perfection.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 09, 2012 09:52 PM |
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Even Tolkien had to split it into 6 volumes, didn't intend it that way. Also he wanted to publish Silmarillion but they said no we want another The Hobbit. And so the little men became heroes.
What work has RJ published Cor? Fantasy too? Science fiction?
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted February 09, 2012 10:06 PM |
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Who, Robert Jordan?
Fantasy. His Wheel of Time series is at what - 11 books now? 'course, Jordan died before he could finish it and it's been taken up by Brian Sanderson, and from what I understand the quality has improved and there's also a projected timescale for completion. The first four or five were fantastic, but after that... well, I gave up.
Seriously, if you're looking for a great modern fantasy writer, try Joe Abercrombie. The Blade Itself, his debut novel, isn't perfect, but it's still damn good and he's gotten better and better as he's worked into his talent. The first three novels are a completed trilogy, and the next two are stand-alone novels in the same universe. It's worth reading the trilogy just to get to Best Served Cold, which is probably one of the best stand alone fantasy novels I've ever read.
If you're looking for something older, try Tad Williams' Memory Sorrow and Thorn quadrillogy. It's a little dated, in the sense that it's not "dark and gritty and bloody and serious" in the way that seems to be popular at the moment, but still well written and epic in scope: more of a Tolkienesque high-fantasy style.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 09, 2012 10:14 PM |
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Quote:
If you're looking for something older, try Tad Williams' Memory Sorrow and Thorn quadrillogy. It's a little dated, in the sense that it's not "dark and gritty and bloody and serious" in the way that seems to be popular at the moment, but still well written and epic in scope: more of a Tolkienesque high-fantasy style.
This is a must for everyone reading fantasy. It's more of a fairytale than a fantasy series but that's what makes it so charming. And if you're a little educated on history you can really have fun interpreting his world.
And if you want dark and gritty and bloody and serious go for Robert Holdstock and his Ryhope Woods series. I love them, I won't lie but they're great none the less.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 09, 2012 10:19 PM |
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Sorry friends, I'm not exactly in tone with current foreign writers you see. I'll look for that Williams thing.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted February 09, 2012 11:53 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 23:54, 09 Feb 2012.
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Try this series. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Thomas_Covenant,_the_Unbeliever
A little darker then some, but imo better then the LoTR series.
Fire and Ice is pretty good, but sort of lost interest quickly.
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Message received.
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Truly_Cursed
Adventuring Hero
Unchained
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posted February 10, 2012 12:43 AM |
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Quote:
His Wheel of Time series is at what - 11 books now?
13, to be specific. The complexity when I read it as a boy still prevents me from picking it up again.
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Insert something witty here. No seriously, do it. Now.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted February 10, 2012 12:57 AM |
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I have a novel by Robert Jordan lying around here, but never read it. I do have like two and a half trilogies and several stand-alone by K.J. Parker lying around here, because I'm such a huge fanboy it's retarded.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 10, 2012 12:57 AM |
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Quote:
Try this series. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Thomas_Covenant,_the_Unbeliever
A little darker then some, but imo better then the LoTR series.
Fire and Ice is pretty good, but sort of lost interest quickly.
Thank you Mytical. Y'know the best thing about chaos...it's fair 
no books have kept me glued to the page except LoTR. And the New testament.
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
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posted February 10, 2012 10:44 AM |
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Dammit, the moment I want to rid this absolutely unbelievably charming little corner of the Net of myself, a thread like this pulls me back!
Seriously, when I thought I ran out of unread, high quality "epic" fantasy, and moved on to the captivating world of 19th century Russian wordsmiths, You have to flaunt, like a half dozen of potential fantasy goldmines at me like there's no tomorrow! Now I'll have to go and check out at least a couple of these, and it'll be entirely your fault! Hmmph!
Now what am I supposed to say? Thank You, You uninhibited, sleazy, scheming snows! 
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 10, 2012 12:22 PM |
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This town needs an enema!
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted February 10, 2012 01:23 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 13:36, 10 Feb 2012.
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I tried to read Jordan, finished the first book and gave up. Call me shallow but I couldn't make myself get to all the promised awesomeness, past the premise about youthful, unsuspecting peasant boys (led to the greatest adventure of their lives by a mystical wizard) running from black riders and orcs sent by the lord of darkness.
Granted, the wizard was a chick and the orcs had goat heads. There was also a manly rugged swordsman to go with the wizard chick if I recall correctly.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted February 10, 2012 02:19 PM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 14:26, 10 Feb 2012.
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Quote:
If you're looking for something older, try Tad Williams' Memory Sorrow and Thorn quadrillogy. It's a little dated, in the sense that it's not "dark and gritty and bloody and serious" in the way that seems to be popular at the moment, but still well written and epic in scope: more of a Tolkienesque high-fantasy style.
Can only second that. Tad Williams is awesome. One of my favorite authors, definitely. Memory, Sorrow & Thorn is a nice Classical Fantasy for me. The "Shadowmarch"-series might also interest you. sometimes, here, the plot could also have been driven forward a bit faster, (here, strangely, especially in the first book, for me) but overall, the series is quite nice. Much darker than "memory, sorrow and thorn". (which, for me, doesn't make it better)
For "Song of Ice and Fire" - haven't read them so far, but got an eye on 'em after accidentally finding the series and watching some of the episodes (a bit too much maybe) and I'll get the box with the 4 books for my birthday, which is soon =)
Also, on LotR...honestly...what makes LotR so great, imo, is not suspence or literaric quality, and not even the epicness. Its just that one knows it was somehow a groundbreaker for the genre and also, I think, one just can feel while reading that tolkien gave his heart into the series. He certainly was not the best writer, imo. but he was an awesome creator, with love for detail and for the great overview at the same time!!!
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 10, 2012 02:44 PM |
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 10, 2012 09:39 PM |
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ASOIAF is great, even Feast for Crows, which is nowhere near as good as the others.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 10, 2012 09:45 PM |
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Mikhail vassilevski! Long time no see. where is TheDeath? he's been looking for me...
I love the Targaryens (what's left of them) and the Starks..Fire and Ice
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted February 11, 2012 04:05 PM |
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I can't wait to read these books. and best is, getting them is directly after my last exam and before a month without having to go to university or anything => I'll have time for it =)
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