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| Thread: Flags flown at half mast for Whitney Houston |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Fauch
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posted February 21, 2012 05:07 PM |
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what I don't understand is why people are obsessed by a snowing flag??
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"Sometimes, you have to do something drastic and extreme for people to listen"
seriously?? burning a flag is something drastic and extreme??
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Zenofex
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posted February 21, 2012 05:09 PM |
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Lowering the flag usually means something bad on a national level or at least expressing the nation's sympathy for someone/something. In this case it's on a state level but it's pretty much the same. I rather doubt that the entire New Jersey, or even the majority, give some much damn about Whitney's death which apparently was nobody's fault but hers. I myself don't care about flags at all but I get where the complainers are coming from.
Still, the level of public ridiculousness here is half a universe lower than, say, the bloody Royal Wedding last year.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 21, 2012 05:23 PM |
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You mean, the complainers give a damn about the "usual reaons" for half-masting the flag?
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Corribus
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posted February 21, 2012 05:26 PM |
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Well, around the world burning flags doesn't seem like that big a thing.
For better or worse, in the US the flag is seen by most people as something sacred. Burning a flag (national flag, anyway) *is* viewed as extreme here, an almost inexcusable disrespect against the country. [As an example, in Elementary school we were taught to NEVER let a US flag touch the ground or even get wet; it has to be folded in a specific way and if it gets damaged, it needed to be replaced immediately; being assigned to raise and lower the flag during the day is seen as a great honor.]
I don't think people in Europe appreciate how almost rabidly nationalistic a good portion of the US people are, and the flag is a symbol of that nationalism.
This is why the flag lowering business is viewed as a big deal by a lot of people.
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Fauch
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posted February 21, 2012 05:49 PM |
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in France too some people go rabid about flags. we got several cases on the news in the past months. it appears that most people are attached to one or several symbols, whatever they are.
it reminds me when I did my training period at the military base... there was even that place that was always empty and you weren't allowed to walk across it because it was used for some specific rituals and you could even get punished just for that 
and about the topic, apparently it is normal to spit on deads but you owe respect to a piece of tissue? we shouldn't be surprised that we haven't got rid of wars yet. 
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blizzardboy
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posted February 21, 2012 06:31 PM |
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I can't agree that there is no harm done in having the flag fly at half-mast. The comparison was used earlier about how these sorts of public ceremonies of respect can become "inflated" in the sense that when people do them for anything and everything, you will make them progressively more meaningless, and I think that's very true for the case here. Half-mast flying usually occurs when a major tragedy occurs. If you loved Whitney Houston and her career, that's cool, but I don't see any case here of her doing anything exceptionally heroic to merit something like this. She raised money after 9/11? I'm glad she did that, but at the same time: big ****ing deal. Droves of celebrities jumped on that bandwagon. She was a rich woman that used her influence to do something good. So did thousands of other people in influential positions. The expense to her and the effort and resources she had to put into it ultimately weren't at all a big deal. You might even call it beneficial for her due to the PR aspect.
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Fauch
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posted February 21, 2012 07:15 PM |
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Quote:
The comparison was used earlier about how these sorts of public ceremonies of respect can become "inflated" in the sense that when people do them for anything and everything, you will make them progressively more meaningless
but it's meaningless. it takes no effort to do that. and that's supposed to honour soldiers fallen at war?
it's like that so-called family member who is never available for anyone, and when there is a death he sends some flowers just to disappear again right after.
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Corribus
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posted February 21, 2012 07:49 PM |
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but it's meaningless. it takes no effort to do that. and that's supposed to honour soldiers fallen at war?
It takes very little effor to award someone the Nobel Prize in Chemistry. Meaningless?
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blizzardboy
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posted February 21, 2012 08:14 PM |
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@Fauch:
Funerals aren't performed for the sake of the dead person. They're therapeutic for the living. So when a form of commemoration that's usually reserved for people that die as a protector or martyr in some fashion, such as state flags flying at half-mast, become extended to pop icons who die accidentally, the commemoration becomes devalued, and by extension its therapeutic ability is weakened.
That's why I think broadening the role of the half-mast flag is literally, physically harmful to people vs the alternative. Yes, it's a pretty abstract and speculative conclusion, but it's what I would be willing to place my wager on.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Fauch
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posted February 23, 2012 07:03 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 19:09, 23 Feb 2012.
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Quote:
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but it's meaningless. it takes no effort to do that. and that's supposed to honour soldiers fallen at war?
It takes very little effor to award someone the Nobel Prize in Chemistry. Meaningless?
but you don't receive a nobel prize in chemistry because you were sent to death.
the prize itself doesn't have a really high value, the value comes from the fact that people really think you deserve it.
just like JJ said :
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Call me ... unpatriotic, but don't you think that all these "appropriate" honoring actions are actually more of a glorification of the state and the government that sent the people into a senseless death, than of the dead soldiers?
it is very possible they may not actually care about the soldiers but only about their own image.
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Corribus
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posted March 23, 2012 02:08 PM |
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*BUMP*
So the coroners report found that WH died of drowning secondary to heart disease from cocaine use, and that she had a significant amount of cocaine in her blood at the time of death. As well as a nice pharmacopea of other drugs.
Yeah, fantastic role model and deserving of state and federal honors.
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OmegaDestroyer
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Fox or Chicken?
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posted March 23, 2012 02:34 PM |
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She's snorting coke with the angels now.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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JollyJoker
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posted March 23, 2012 03:10 PM |
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So I take it now, that the flag shouldn't be raised for smokers dying from lung cancer anymore, because they are a bad role model.
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted March 23, 2012 04:11 PM |
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Smoking illegal in America?  Learning new things everyday.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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JollyJoker
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posted March 23, 2012 06:10 PM |
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Oh? You mean, the illegal aspect of the drugs in question is the problem? I'm not sure that's really a good point, considering for example what kind of sexual behaviour is illegal in the US of A or in parts of it.
So should the flag be lowered for Mr. Clinton, when he dies, eventually? I mean, what about Nixon? Did they lower the flag for HIM?
I just cannot understand that the USA - no, the world, actually - didn't learn the lesson of the prohibition: they MADE big crime, and, yet, they did and do it all over again, crime getting big and fat, resting on the 3 solid pillars of drugs, prostitution and gambling. It's not enough that they criminalize the whole population, no, they actually make sure that a lot of money is wasted instead of filling the public coffers with a couple of taxes on this kind of amusement.
I mean, they obviously KNOW, the flesh is weak, so why the hell do they behave as if everyone was Jesus reborn?
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted March 23, 2012 06:34 PM |
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I was merely trying to draw a line between the extremes of your examples, but it's a waste of time, though entertaining nevertheless.
You of all people should understand that the burning of money is what keeps this sinking ship afloat.
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Nocturnal
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posted March 23, 2012 06:58 PM |
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Quote:
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Flying the flag at half staff has been traditionally reserved for people who served the country in some special way (political leaders, soldiers, etc.)
I think that if USA today isn't on last rank of sympathy from others, is mainly due to its incredible fountain of talents, artists, actors, scientists. They served and world wide promoted the country valors, while politicians kept lowering. I see no difference between a accomplished artist and an accomplished scientist, both take a whole life of work and dedication.
I can't believe my eyes that show me the first Salamandre post ever that I agree with 
There are many artists that are much more valuable than most of the politicians. Whitney Housten was one of them for these people. It seems it is not for you. I'm curious if you would again find it inappropriate if it was an artist you adore.
And please, labelling an artist you don't like with one of that person's negative attribute is such a cliché. I'm sure everyone knows she did more than using drugs.
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted March 23, 2012 07:02 PM |
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Drowning while under the influence of cocaine with a mix of additional substances is a hell of a way to go, albeit not something I'd refer to simply as 'a negative attribute'.
If she'd have perished in a more 'reasonable' fashion, then you'd find me to be more agreeable.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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JollyJoker
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posted March 23, 2012 10:41 PM |
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I was merely trying to draw a line between the extremes of your examples, but it's a waste of time, though entertaining nevertheless.
You of all people should understand that the burning of money is what keeps this sinking ship afloat.
Actually I don't understamd anything.
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OhforfSake
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posted March 23, 2012 10:43 PM |
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Quote:
Actually I don't understamd anything.
Wooow! Now I know this can't be reality!
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