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| Thread: Noob Questions |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Duthos
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 03, 2012 09:40 PM |
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I had speculated a static image could solve that. The overview is unresponsive in any map, wog, wogified or standard, that I run from the wog executable, could be an install issue, but I ran the era ii installation twice on fresh installs and got the same behavior. The week popup only did that once, but it was a wogified standard map, so I am assuming it is the same installation problem.
I do understand the power of WOG for mapmaking, I just wish its presence was felt only in the editors and maps designed to use it. And yeah, mass media always appeals to the lowest common denominator, which bugs me because it strikes me as running contrary to evolution itself, catering to the bottom instead of the top.
Changing plutonium to plastique swaps one problem for another for me, it would feel as out of place as a lazer rifle. I would rather not spoil the map for myself, and it is really a minor thing, merely an example that came up in the discussion, it certainly won't ruin Thunk for me by itself.
I would hardly describe your thoughts as minor, but then again, I have a certain fondness for human intellect.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 03, 2012 09:49 PM |
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Quote:
I do understand the power of WOG for mapmaking, I just wish its presence was felt only in the editors and maps designed to use it.
The latest WoG version, which is ERA II, leaves regular resources untouched. If you start game from regular executable, there is nothing more from WoG graphics in. So this argument is history now 
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Era II mods and utilities
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 03, 2012 10:31 PM |
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Update on 2): I still do most of my gaming in a WoG 3.58f folder, while waiting for the final, official Era version. Under WoG 3.58f, the status window cycles when I click it. In my Era 1.8 folder, it does not. (Both have the same WoG Options settings.) So my latest hypothesis is that this was changed in Era for some reason, or in WoG 3.59, upon which Era is based. Bersy could probably confirm or refute this, in his Era II thread.
There are several mods, such as the Phoenix Mod, "Stargate Atlantis Rising", etc., which change the "skins" (opening and menu graphics). The ability to do this stems from the investigations and reverse-engineering work of the WoG Team. If the WoG Team had not existed, the HOTA Team would have had to invent them. Personally, I feel a bit of gratitude when I see the WoG credits at the start of a game. Perhaps if I were a good graphics artist myself my reaction would rather be to disparage their graphics, but that is not the case.
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Duthos
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 03, 2012 10:46 PM |
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I don't mean to belittle WOG and what the WOG team has accomplished in any way. I am simply particular and critical. I have no doubt they have contributed much to the modding community. I look forward to seeing what HOTA on WOG will look like, if it retains the polish the HOTA team are focusing on then I imagine I would have few, if any, gripes about it.
Yeah Sal, I know that, I just like to have my cake and eat it to.
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LocoBolon
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 03, 2012 07:02 PM |
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Hi, I'm noob and I have a question, I'll make an example of it since I think it's simplest way to explain myself.
Suppose I dl two custom WOG maps on my comp (MAP1 and MAP2, for example)
If I save both map's scripts files on my Data folder and then play MAP1, Will MAP2's scripts modififications be aplied to my game?
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solitaire345
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 03, 2012 07:40 PM |
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No if that's only maps you download. Modified game resources can.
In some rare cases some scripts from previous map can be unloaded too late during map start and something may execute, but IIRC most changes done this way are reverted during later phases of loading.
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LocoBolon
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 03, 2012 10:09 PM |
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So... if i play dl'ed maps like, 300 Spartans, Thunk, or Dragon Slaughter, theres no need for me to be cleaning my Data folder to play one or another, i can just save all the scripts of all the maps in my Data folder and each specific map will run only the scripts it is supposed to?
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted September 03, 2012 10:13 PM |
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300 and The Dragon Slaughter are mods,which means they have to be played with caution what else you have in your mods folder.
You can install them from Era mods thread and manage them through the mods manager.
After installing they are separate from each other.
Do you have Era installed?
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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LocoBolon
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 03, 2012 10:18 PM |
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Ehm.... i dont think so... what was ERA? 
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 03, 2012 10:19 PM |
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Edited by JimV at 22:32, 03 Sep 2012.
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Quote:
If I save both map's scripts files on my Data folder and then play MAP1, Will MAP2's scripts modififications be aplied to my game?
It depends on whether you are using Era 2 or just WoG 3.58f, and in the latter case, how the scripts are named; and in both cases, whether by "Data folder" you mean Data/s, and whether you wogify the maps.
Under WoG 3.58f, .erm files with the name scriptxx.erm, where xx is from 00 to I think 80, if saved under (Heroes 3 WoG folder)/Data/s, will be added to all maps which are wogified. A script named "myscript.erm" however would not be added.
Under Era, "myscript.erm" would be loaded if the map is wogified and if the script is in (Heroes 3 Era 2 folder)/Mods/(active Mod name)/Data/s. (Unless you have a "load_only_these_scripts.txt" file which does not mention the filename.)
So there cases under which your scenario would result in both sets of scripts being loaded, and cases in which neither would be loaded.
Scripts in Timed Events, which is where most down-loaded custom WoG maps have their scripts, will only apply to the maps they are in. (They should not be removed from the Timed Events and placed in Data/s unless you know what you are doing.)
P.S. Solitaire345's comment was the last one shown when I wrote this, so that is where my response applies, not to later information.
Most downloaded maps come with installation instructions, which you should read and follow - and contact the author if you don't understand them. In the case of "The Dragon Slaughter", the thread here on it gives installation instructions. The WoG 3.58f version, which I think you are referring to, has all its scripts in Timed Events (in the map itself, the .h3m file), and these scripts should not be removed and placed in Data. However, there are some graphics and sound files which need to be in Data. The archive package should be set with the correct folder structure so that it can be extracted completely into the top-level Heroes 3 folder.
If other maps also use custom graphics and sound files and happen to use the same filenames, then over-writing and confusion would result. This is unlikely to happen. If you suspect it has happened, check the filenames in the archive packages.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted September 03, 2012 10:20 PM |
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LocoBolon,Era 2.4 as an answer to some of your questions.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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LocoBolon
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 03, 2012 10:48 PM |
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Well this is becoming a little confusing but i sorta expected it to get like this.
Here is where I am right now, I want to try some WOG map made by someone who did it specifically for a good gameplay experience with a high level of difficulty. I've found quite a few (dragon slaughter, 300 to name a few). This is a page where i found some of them http://www.maps4heroes.com/heroes3/maps.php?keywords=Valery&type=&size=&difficulty=&sort=2
wich I'm sure u all knew. Anyway, my first question was (since I want to play the map exactly the way it was supposed to be played) whether to wogify it or not. what i have learned from what i read in this same post is that if the map was custom made for specific gameplay it should have scripts files inside wich u should put in your /Data or in ur Data/s and that u should NEVER wogify it if u intend to play it the way the creator did it.
So I downloaded like 6 maps and unpacked all the files where they were supposed to be, then I asked myself if I just run one of those maps (or Mods, i dont really know the difference yet)I downloaded wouldnt it get moddified as well by the other script files from the other maps I put in my /data/ and my /data/s folder.
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LocoBolon
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 03, 2012 10:59 PM |
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Quote:
In the case of "The Dragon Slaughter", the thread here on it gives installation instructions. The WoG 3.58f version, which I think you are referring to, has all its scripts in Timed Events (in the map itself, the .h3m file), and these scripts should not be removed and placed in Data. However, there are some graphics and sound files which need to be in Data. The archive package should be set with the correct folder structure so that it can be extracted completely into the top-level Heroes 3 folder.
So, in the case of "Dragon Slaughter", I just place every file where it belongs, I shouldn't worry about any of the scripts of this map to modify any other map except "Dragon Slaughter", and I should not wogify it, correct?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 04, 2012 01:33 AM |
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Just hearing your complaints recalls me the 15 heroes folders I had in wog 3.58. I can't but recommend you to install Era 2.4 over Heroes complete or SoD (check thread on top of forum), then download TDS or 300 as mods from HERE, and your dilemmas are gone. Era has a mod manager tool which disables/enables in one click (3 actually but sounds better)any mod from folder. Then you just play.
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Era II mods and utilities
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LocoBolon
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 04, 2012 02:02 AM |
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Quote:
Just hearing your complaints recalls me the 15 heroes folders I had in wog 3.58. I can't but recommend you to install Era 2.4 over Heroes complete or SoD (check thread on top of forum), then download TDS or 300 as mods from [url=http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=37495]HERE[/url], and your dilemmas are gone. Era has a mod manager tool which disables/enables in one click (3 actually but sounds better)any mod from folder. Then you just play.
Oh, I will, new questions will come later, but you will be there to answer them all ^^
Thx guys
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 04, 2012 05:57 AM |
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Edited by JimV at 05:58, 04 Sep 2012.
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what i have learned from what i read in this same post is that if the map was custom made for specific gameplay it should have scripts files inside wich u should put in your /Data or in ur Data/s
No! Do what the game installation instructions say. (In the case of mapsforheroes maps, the installation instructions may be in a post at the site, but most download map packages contain a README file with instructions.) I don't believe you will ever see instructions which say, "take the custom scripts out of the Timed Events in the map file and put them in /Data/s." A) If the map map-maker wanted them somewhere else he or she would not have put them in Timed Events; B) It won't work - unless you are an expert and know how to do it (in which case you wouldn't be asking).
In Wog 3.58f, /Data/s is for standard WoG scripts (script00 through script78), not for custom scripts. Custom scripts are usually built into custom maps as Timed Events. WoGification adds the general scripts to a map. Timed Event scripts are already in the map and don't have to be added.
Quote:
So, in the case of "Dragon Slaughter", I just place every file where it belongs, I shouldn't worry about any of the scripts of this map to modify any other map except "Dragon Slaughter", and I should not wogify it, correct?
Correct, but that map (and most custom WoG maps) will not give you the option to wogify it anyway. One of the things a WoG (ERM) script can do is prevent wogification when it is not wanted. Map-makers who have read ERM Help and know this will use this option if the map should not be wogified. Read ERM Help for more information, if you want to know how ERM scripts work.
I have the impression that you are confusing script files with other custom files, such as custom graphics. For exanple, new Hero portraits are often added using ERM scripts, but the ERM script must be able to load the graphics file (e.g., .pcx, .bmp, .jpg, etc.) from somewhere, usually /Data. When you say script, everyone here will assume you mean .erm files (and that you know what these are).
(I am adding these notes for the benefit of future readers so that the thread does not mislead them.)
What I have written here applies to WoG 3.58f. Things are somewhat different under Era. Chances are a map which didn't require wogification under WoG 3.58f, will require wogification under Era.
Since 99.9% of all WoG 3.58f maps have not yet been converted to Era, and many never will be, personally I would recommend keeping at least one WoG 3.58f folder. Hard Drive space is cheap. I have yet to fill all of mine up on any machine. However, I also recommend Era, for the new features which it adds. (Those of us with Era 1.8, Era 1.81, Era 2.2, Era 2.3, and Era 2.4 are filling up our hard drives that way.)
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 04, 2012 06:37 AM |
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There is no reason to convert every 3.58 map to Era, unless it comes with a *wog file. I did not yet find a single 3.58 map which is not compatible with Era and can't see any reason why one should not (who used UN:C anyway?).
For me 3.58 is very hard to handle, having 10-15 folders with different mods is confusing if you work on some of them. In which folder I had this map or this script, it became a nightmare. Some people are very organized with Heroes/erm, for me is a hobby and I find things easier if in same folder.
Which means I personally saw no reason to keep 3.58 installed, all from it is already in Era and the +/- 50 WoG maps I downloaded and played over time just play fine in. There is one exception, Ice Arrow by Doc Suman, which uses a wog file to add a single artefact, so maybe it should be converted because is nice map.
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Era II mods and utilities
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LocoBolon
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 05, 2012 02:47 AM |
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I hear u guys talking about the many folders u had on your 3.58f to organize mods. So if I install the Dragon Slaughter in my 3.58f instead of just puting the files in my /Data/ so they mix up with the ones that are already there i can put them in a folder i create inside my /Data/ so i keep them organized ?
For example: all the ".pcx" instead of saving them in /Data/ I can save them in /Data/DragonSLData/, is that ok or I'm just talking nonsense
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 05, 2012 02:54 AM |
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No, we did not have many folders in your wog mod, but we had many Heroes folders, each one about a mod. Just unrar it in your Heroes folder and play, don't move anything or will not work. Think to keep a backup of your Heroes game, as once a graphical mod installed, it will not be compatible with any others. If you use 3.58, that's it.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 05, 2012 03:44 AM |
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A few more details:
"The Dragon Slaughter" is not a "mod", as that term is usually used here, just a WoG map with a few extra features which are unlikely to affect other maps. A "mod" usually means a major modification which changes graphics in h3sprite.lod, and perhaps other things, such as sounds or even game mechanics. A "mod" usually requires its own, separate Heroes 3 folder under WoG 3.58f, because the changes would clash with other WoG maps which were not designed for them.
"300 Spartans" is a mod. It contains new creature sprite graphics, for Spartan warriors and other things appropriate to ancient Greece, as well as many new objects. These replace standard Heroes 3-WoG graphics, and would look out of place if used in a standard WoG map. So the WoG 3.58f version instructions tell you to make a copy of your Heroes 3 (WoG) folder in its entirety (which you can do in Windows Explorer with copy and paste), and use H3WUPD.exe or DEFKA or MMARCHIVE to add its new DEF files to the h3sprite.lod and other Heroes archives.
Note: under Windows 7, I recommend placing Heroes 3 folder copies in "My Documents", to avoid the "compatibility files" issue. Also note, it is not necessary to "install" a Heroes 3 folder. The copy works fine, and you can place another short-cut for it on your desktop.
Under Era, the process is more like what you said - but in no case will you get to make up your own folder names for map data. This data will be read by programs and scripts which expect to find it in certain locations. Unless you know how to change programs and scripts to find the data somewhere else, you must follow the installation instructions exactly as given by the map-maker.
I have checked the README in the current TDS.rar file, and it seems clear to me. I have my copy in a folder along with hundreds of other WoG 3.58f maps (as well as the maps from the three original Heroes 3 CD's) and have no interferences among them.
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