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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: New Faction&Town Concept
Thread: New Faction&Town Concept [ This thread is 4 pages long: (1) 2 3 4 ]
Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted July 08, 2012 06:36 AM
Edited by Jiriki9 at 05:53, 18 Jul 2012.

New Faction&Town Concept

Hey people. I somehow lost track for my old H7 proposal, and, thinking about how I'd likeHoMM7 now, an idea for a system popped in my mind. A key of the system is the division of towns into several districts/quarters. The system empathizes choice, allows faction mixing, and offers terrain-based town buildings and units.
Inspiration is taken from many proposals by members here, namely mainly LizardWarrior, Adrius, War-overlord and Moonshade and, of course, the HoMM-series Other inspiration isn't excluded

Town development
Well, in this proposal, town development is quite important and would be quite different from before. For instance, it would involve more choice than HoMM1-5 (can't speak for 6, which I did not play so far). The choice iwll come in at many points which will be explained down below.

Terrain Influence
The influence of terrains is also a key in the whole system. The Terrain on which a town is build gives access to 3 unique terrain units, it determines which Ressource building/s can be built, has an influence on spells learnable and gives at least one Special Building as well. The Terrain also determines which districts can be opened in a Town.

Districts
A main aspect in all of this, as mentioned, are the Districts/Quarters. Every Town starts out with at least a Main/Central/Inner District, which will contain the basic buildings: Village Hall+upgrades, Fort+upgrades, Market, etc.
When Towns develop and grow, you can populate up to 3 Outer Districts. Outer Districts, unlike inner District, are aligned to a faction. You can mix Districts of different factions and there are Mixed-Faction Districts, requiring the L1 district of each Faction. Building Districts follows certain Rules:
-The Level of the Hall determines how many Outer Districts you can have in the town. Village/Town/City Hall allow 1/2/3 Districts. Capitol and the New building XYZ (name needed, can only be built in towns without Capitol) allow the fourth.
-The Terrain and allready existing Districts determine, WHICH districts can be built.
-The Level of a District and the number of allready existing Districts determine how much a District costs.
-Districts come in 3 Levels. a District of a level higher than one can be directly built, but only if the corresponding Level 1 District is also in the town. Districts can also be upraded to the corresponding higher-level District, but Level 2 Districts only if another Level 2 district of the same faction is in built in the town.

Building
Buildings are now allways assigned to a District. A District also has a size and thus, only a limited number of buildings can be built in one single District. This number is dependent on District Level and Town Size (=Level of Hall). More important even, the Outer Districts have each a specified choice of buildings, especially dewellings, but also special buildings. Thus, the choice of districts is vital for the town.
NOTE: Districts can be changed, or razed, of course!!!

Town Military - Fort, Military Power, Dwellings & Defense


A word before: I work with a 4-Tier system, having Commo, Core, Elite and Champion Units.

Fort
The role of the military Town buildins is quite exteneded in this system. In HoMM3 and 5 I often experienced that first all Unit buildings were built, and later the fort upgrading began. That's no longer possible, for the fort regulates the buildable number of dwellings. It also opens new slots in the city garrison. Large part of the City Defense buildings, on the other hand, are different buildings now (a bit similar to H2).
A summary on the effects of fort and its upgrades:
-A town without Fort has only 3 garrison slots for defense. Fort/Citadel/Castle allows 5/6/7 slots.
-Without Fort, only common unit dwellings can be built. Fort/Citadel/Castle allows Core/Elite/Champion Buildings.
-Fort/Citadel/Castle increase the Military Power of a Town by 2/5/7

Military Power
The Military Power of a town symbolized how well the Military works and is controlled. It determines the strength of defense Buildings, the growth rate and the number of Dwellings that can be built in the whole town.
1. The strengths of defense buildings is 50%/100%/125%/150% for Military Power of 0-2/3-5/6-8/9+
2. The Growth rate is 50/100/150/200% for Military Power of 0-2/3-5/6-8/9+
3. The Military Power directly determines how many dwellings can be built. (So a Military Power of 6, f.e., allows 6 dwellings)

Dwellings
As mentioned, the number of Dwellings totally buildable in a Town is equal to the Military Power. As also mentioned before, you need a Fort and its upgrades for Higher-Tier-Dwellings. And, finally, the District determines which dwellings can be built in it. In an Inner District, this will be the Terrain-Specific Dwellings. In an Outer District, it will be the dwellings of the faction of the District.

To make all that clearer, I think examples are necessary. These I give in the lists below.

Districts

Factions: Academy, Dungeon, Haven, Inferno, Necropolis, Stronghold, Sylvan

Note: Not every faction is compatible with every faction!!! Here is a list of which factions are NOT compatible:

Academy: Dungeon?, Fortress?, Necropolis?, Stronghold?, Sylvan?, Temple?
Dungeon: Academy?, Fortress?, Free City?, Haven?, Stronghold?, Sylvan, Temple?
Fortress: Academy?, Dungeon?, Free City?, Inferno?, Necropolis?, Stronghold, Sylvan?, Temple?
Free City: Dungeon?, Fortress?, Haven?, Inferno?, Necropolis?, Stronghold?, Sylvan?, Temple?
Haven: Dungeon?, Free City?, Inferno, Necropolis, Stronghold?, Temple?
Inferno: Fortress?, Free City?, Haven, Stronghold?, Sylvan?, Temple?
Necropolis: Academy?, Fortress?, Free City?, Haven, Stronghold?, Sylvan, Temple?
Stronghold: Academy?, Dungeon?, Fortress?, Free City?, Haven?, Inferno?, Necropolis?, Sylvan?, Temple?
Sylvan: Academy?, Dungeon, Fortress?, Free City?, Inferno?, Necropolis, Stronghold?, Temple?
Temple: Academ?y, Dungeon?, Fortress?, Free City?, Haven?, Inferno?, Necropolis?, Stronghold?

Level 1 Districts

Slave/Working/Factory District
Faction: Academy
Level: 1
Dwellings:
-Factory (Gremlin, Common)
-Workshop (Stone Golem, Core)
Special Buildings:
-
-

Rural District
Faction: Haven
Level: 1
Dwellings:
-Guardhouse (Militia, Common)
-Chapel (Priest, Core)
Special Buildings:
-
-

Funeral District
Faction: Necropolis
Level: 1
Dwellings:
-Graveyard (Walking Dead, Common)
-Bone Pile (Skeletal Beast, Core)
Special Buildings:
-
-

Goblin Slums
Faction: Stronghold
Level: 1
Dwellings:
-Dirty Shacks (Goblin, Common)
-Wolf Pits (Wolf Rider, Core)...or better Medicine Tent (Shaman, Core)?
Special Buildings:
-
-

Treetop District
Faction: Sylvan
Level: 1
Dwellings:
-Fairy Colony (Pixie, Common)
-Ranger Hut (Ranger, Core)
Special Buildings:
-

??? District
Faction: Temple
Level: 1
Dwellings:
-? (Headhunter, Common)
-Arena (Gladiator, Core)
Special Buildings:
-
-


Level 2 Districts

Academy/University District
Faction: Academy
Level: 2
Dwellings:
-Mage Academy/University (Mage, Core)
-Flying Dormitory (Carpet Fighter, Elite)
Special Buildings:
-Library (One additional spell on every mage guild level)
-

Noble District
Faction: Haven
Level: 2
Dwellings:
-Shooting Range (Crossbowman, Core)
-Jousting Place (Cavalier, Elite)
Special Buildings:
-
-

Sinister/Dark/Mansion District
Faction: Necropolis
Level: 2
Dwellings:
-Crypt (Ghost, Elite)
-Mansion (Vampire, Elite)
Special Buildings:
-
-

??? District
Faction: Stronghold
Level: 2
Dwellings:
-Fighting Grounds (Orc Warrior, Core)
-???
Special Buildings:
-
-

Grove District
Faction:
Level: 2
Dwellings:
-Dancing Place (Faun, Core)
-Deep Glade (Unicorn, Elite)
Special Buildings:
-

District
Faction: Temple
Level: 2
Dwellings:
-? (Medusa, Core)
-? (Wyvern, Elite)
Special Buildings:
-
-


Level 3 Districts

Astral District
Faction: Academy
Level: 3
Dwellings:
-Treasure Chamber (Djinn, Elite)
-Cloud Castle (Giant, Champion)
-Special Buildings:
-
-

Holy District
Faction: Haven
Level: 3
Dwellings:
-Cathedral (Paladin, Elite)
-Portal of Glory (Angels, Champion)
Special Buildings:
-
-

Fallen/Silent District
Faction: Necropolis
Level: 3
Dwellings:
-Mausoleum (Lich, Elite)
-Death Temple/Portal (Reaper, Champion)
Special Buildings:
-
-


Faction: Stronghold
Level: 3
Dwellings:
-???
-Ziggurat (Cyclops, Champion)
Special Buildings:
-
-

Sacred District
Faction:
Level: 3
Dwellings:
-Stonehege (Druid, Elite)
-Pyre/Ancient Shrine (Phoenix, Champion)
Special Buildings:
-

Ancient District
Faction: Temple
Level: 3
Dwellings:
-? (Naga, Elite)
-? (Hydra, Champion)
Special Buildings:
-
-

Cross-Faction Districts



Terrains

Deadlands
Allowed Factions: Academy?, Dungeon?, Inferno, Necropolis, Stronghold?
Dwellings:
-
-
-
Ressource:
Special Buildings:

Desert
Allowed Factions: Academy, Inferno, Necropolis? Stronghold?, Temple
Dwellings:
-Desert Pit (Scorpion, Common)
-Oasis (Nomad, Core)
-Pyramid (Mummy, Elite)
Ressource: Stone?Gems?
Special Buildings:
-

Earth
Allowed Factions: Academy?, Dungeon?, Haven, Stronghold?, Sylvan, Temple?
Dwellings:
-Undergrowth (Boar, Common or Core)
- (Dryad?)
-Heartwood (Dendroid, Elite)
Ressource: Stone? Ore? Crystal?
Special Buildings:

Grassland
Allowed Factions: Academ, Haven, Stronghold?, Sylvan, Temple?
Dwellings:
-Hobbit Hole (Halfling, Common)
-? (Nymph?)
-?
Ressource: Wood?
Special Buildings:

Prairie
Allowed Factions: Academy?, Haven, Stronghold, Sylvan, Temple?
Dwellings:
-?
-Tribal Camp (Centaur, Core)
-??? (Pegasus?Aurochs?, Elite)
Ressource: ??
Special Buildings:

Rock(Mountain Terrain)
Allowed Factions: Academy?, Dungeon?, Haven, Inferno, Necropolis?, Stronghold?, Temple?
Dwellings:
- ()
- ()
- ()
Ressource: Stone? Ore? Crystal?
Special Buildings:

Snow
Allowed Factions: Academy?, Dungeon?, Haven, Necropolis?, Stronghold?, Sylvan
Dwellings:
-???
-Frost Cave (Yeti, Core)
-Ice Fortress (Panzerbear, Elite)
Ressource: ??
Special Buildings:

Swamp
Allowed Factions: Academy?, Dungeon?, Necropolis, Stronghold, Sylvan, Temple
Dwellings:
-Shimmering Pond (Wisp, Common)
-Fly Hive (Fire Fly, Core)
-? (Coatl?, Elite)
Ressource: Wood? Sulfur?
Special Buildings:

Underground
Allowed Factions: Dungeon, Necropolis?, Inferno, Temple?
Dwellings:
-Mineshaft (Miner, Common)
- ()
- ()
Ressource: Wood? Sulfur?
Special Buildings:

Volcanic
Allowed Factions: Academy?, Dungeon?, Inferno, Necropolis?, Stronghold?, Temple
Dwellings:
- ()
- ()
- ()
Ressource: Sulfur?Mercury?
Special Buildings:


Lists still under work of course. I'd be glad for comments on the general systems, as wlel as ideas, though!!!

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Vindicator
Vindicator


Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
posted July 08, 2012 06:50 AM

Seems intriguing-certainly a very interesting idea! Am I right that you can mix districts of different factions? So you can have a Haven district and an Academy district in the same city? And if you can, what does that affect?
____________

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted July 08, 2012 06:55 AM

The idea is interesting certainly.
Though I'm not quite certain how your tiering system works. And some names obviously need to be looked at.(Calling things 'something place' and all that) But I am quite curious how you will work things out for all factions.
____________
"Cheesburger in a Can, by the people who brought you Soup in an Envelope." -Tom Rhodes

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Promising
Supreme Hero
HC's avatar uploader
posted July 08, 2012 07:06 AM

The terrain influence seems a great addition.But the garrison slots influenced by the fort/citadel/castle isn't great,it would enter in conflict with heroes slots,they both should have the same number of slots and if you don't have a fort built in the town and the hero has 7 seven stacks you can't move the hero in the garrison,because there will be only 3 slots.

Districts are also a great idea,but I would suggest to renounce at common level and make the first district with 2 cores.That would make a better balance:3 cores,2 elites and 1 champion.The terrain district I would say to add 3 creatures:2 cores and 1 elite or to make it more powerful it could add 1 creature for every level,so with all districts built it would have:4 cores,3 elites and 2 champions.

Also here are my suggestions for the unnamed districts:

Academy lvl 3 district:Astral District
Haven lvl 1 district:Rural District
Sylvan lvl 3 district:Sacred District(and would leave Holy District for lvl 3 Haven)

For desert district I would say:Academy, Necropolis, Inferno, Stronghold.Since it contains mummies and it would be more appropriate to Necropolis than Heaven.

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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted July 08, 2012 07:34 AM

thanks for the kind comments! =)
Quote:
Am I right that you can mix districts of different factions? So you can have a Haven district and an Academy district in the same city? And if you can, what does that affect?


Yes, you can What it does affect? Well, some things. I'll state the neatives first:
For one, to reach a Level 3 District, you need a Level 2 district of the same faction, so it will be hard to get the champion unit of a faction if you mix too harsh. For second, you may end up with mix-faction armies - and these get the same penalties as before, so you need to take counter-measures.
The positives of having different factions' districts are nevertheless also mentionable. First - you have a stronger influence on the combination of troops you will have (though, again: mind the morale). Second, you also have access to a broader variety of special buildings. Third, you can rather easily use a town for your purpose when you conquer it. For example, when you reach a mid-level town, havin allready 2 districts, and none of your liking, you can still get 2 more districts which are!

Quote:
Though I'm not quite certain how your tiering system works. And some names obviously need to be looked at.(Calling things 'something place' and all that) But I am quite curious how you will work things out for all factions.


How the tier system works? Well, there are simply four tiers, with increasing strength:
-Common: Lowest and weakest units, numerable
-Core: The solid core, still numerable enough
-Elite: Strong units, much less, often many special abilites
-Champion: Stronges units in the game

For the number of tiers, it is not as linear as before, due to you being able to choose wether to go for one faction, several factions, and/or terrain-specific units. But on the general:
-Every faction has 1 Common Unit, 2 Cores, 2 elites and 1 champion.
-Every Terrain has 1 Common, 1 Core, 1 Elite
-Which Tier you can reach is dependent on which military main building you have.

Quote:
The terrain influence seems a great addition.

thanks =)

Quote:
But the garrison slots influenced by the fort/citadel/castle isn't great,it would enter in conflict with heroes slots,they both should have the same number of slots and if you don't have a fort built in the town and the hero has 7 seven stacks you can't move the hero in the garrison,because there will be only 3 slots.


Ah, forgot to mention that: When a hero is moved into a Town, the biger number of lsots is available!!! The lower slots are only for when you defend a town without a hero, symbolizing that some kind of military power, commanders, dicipline, orders, etc. is needed ot organize the city defense.

Quote:
Districts are also a great idea,but I would suggest to renounce at common level and make the first district with 2 cores.That would make a better balance:3 cores,2 elites and 1 champion.The terrain district I would say to add 3 creatures:2 cores and 1 elite or to make it more powerful it could add 1 creature for every level,so with all districts built it would have:4 cores,3 elites and 2 champions.


Sorry, but I firmly decided for having common level in! Reason for that is spreading the units a bit further strengthwise. And the balance is quite there, imo. When advancing in the level of a district you get one unit of the former higher tier and one unit a tier higher. With all districts built - ddepends totally on which districts you bild. f.e. you can build four Level 1 Districts, potentially - in which case you'd end up with (including terrain units) a choice of 5 Commons, 5 Cores and 1 Elite. The classical Distribution would be having Level 1-3 of one faction, and one more LEvel 1 or 2 of the same (3 isn't possible!), endin up with 2/3 Commons, 4 Cores, 3/4 Elite and 1 Champion.

For the names.
...Rural district is awesome, thanks! =)
...Astral Distric could work, thouh it doesn't relly strike.
...the distribution of sacred and holy seems reasonable.

Also, your proposal seems reasonable for the possible desert districts. Maybe Inferno will be replaced, depending on what other factiosn I take in. Haven and Sylvan would definitely be no desert factions, and same should go for potential-in Dwarven faction, Naga-Faciton or Lizardman-Faction.

The

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Promising
Supreme Hero
HC's avatar uploader
posted July 08, 2012 08:51 AM

Quote:

Ah, forgot to mention that: When a hero is moved into a Town, the biger number of lsots is available!!! The lower slots are only for when you defend a town without a hero, symbolizing that some kind of military power, commanders, dicipline, orders, etc. is needed ot organize the city defense.


If the hero increases the slots indifferent on fort level it's ok,it would be a good strategy to put always a hero in garrison if you are low on resources and can't build castle.


Quote:
Sorry, but I firmly decided for having common level in! Reason for that is spreading the units a bit further strengthwise. And the balance is quite there, imo. When advancing in the level of a district you get one unit of the former higher tier and one unit a tier higher. With all districts built - ddepends totally on which districts you bild. f.e. you can build four Level 1 Districts, potentially - in which case you'd end up with (including terrain units) a choice of 5 Commons, 5 Cores and 1 Elite. The classical Distribution would be having Level 1-3 of one faction, and one more LEvel 1 or 2 of the same (3 isn't possible!), endin up with 2/3 Commons, 4 Cores, 3/4 Elite and 1 Champion.


It would be more logic if you could have more choices for common creatures than cores.Let's say 4 commons,3 cores,2 elites and 1 champion.It would be strange to have more elite choices than commons.You could make factions  line-up more unique by making different numbers for commons,cores or elites for every faction,but it would be unbalanced in some cases.

Quote:

For the names.
...Rural district is awesome, thanks! =)
...Astral Distric could work, thouh it doesn't relly strike.
...the distribution of sacred and holy seems reasonable.



More suggestions:
Stronghold lvl 2-Rage District
Stronghold lvl 3-Mighty District

For stronghold lvl 2 you could use some kind of beast,like frenzied gnasher in H4(but weaker). For stronghold lvl 3 I would suggest make cyclops elite and put behemoth champion or Ogre for elite,leaving cyclops champion.

Quote:

Also, your proposal seems reasonable for the possible desert districts. Maybe Inferno will be replaced, depending on what other factiosn I take in. Haven and Sylvan would definitely be no desert factions, and same should go for potential-in Dwarven faction, Naga-Faciton or Lizardman-Faction.



I would like very much to see a Lizardmen faction.

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vitorsly
vitorsly


Known Hero
Joker!
posted July 08, 2012 09:13 AM
Edited by vitorsly at 09:15, 08 Jul 2012.

In my Opinion I think there should be a Troll in the 3rd District so Stronghold gets atleast 1 shooter the second district could have an ogre? or a Roc for a flyer?

And in the swamp you could have a lizard faction like:
Serpent lake (Serpent fly;common)
Swamp hut (Lizardamn;Core)
Stone Temple(Basilisk;Elite)

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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted July 08, 2012 09:27 AM

Quote:
If the hero increases the slots indifferent on fort level it's ok,it would be a good strategy to put always a hero in garrison if you are low on resources and can't build castle.


indeed.

Quote:
It would be more logic if you could have more choices for common creatures than cores. Let's say 4 commons,3 cores,2 elites and 1 champion.It would be strange to have more elite choices than commons. You could make factions  line-up more unique by making different numbers for commons, cores or elites for every faction,but it would be unbalanced in some cases.


hmm, I think I disagree on this. There are certainly more common units in numbers, but I don' think there are necessarily more choices on different commons.

Quote:
For stronghold lvl 2 you could use some kind of beast,like frenzied gnasher in H4(but weaker). For stronghold lvl 3 I would suggest make cyclops elite and put behemoth champion or Ogre for elite,leaving cyclops champion.


Hmm I'm not sure. I thought many beasts would come as terrain units. Behemoth is quite a possible Stronghold champion. I yet also thought of Roc and Ogre or Troll as Elites with Cyclops as champion.

Quote:
I would like very much to see a Lizardmen faction.

I thought that I'm not sure though, wether I make lizardmen a faction or make them Swamp-Units.

Quote:
In my Opinion I think there should be a Troll in the 3rd District so Stronghold gets atleast 1 shooter the second district could have an ogre? or a Roc for a flyer?

And in the swamp you could have a lizard faction like:
Serpent lake (Serpent fly;common)
Swamp hut (Lizardamn;Core)
Stone Temple(Basilisk;Elite)

The Troll thingy seems very reasonable.

For the swamp...Dragon Fly will be definitely in. Lizardman, as mentioned, maybe. Basilisk is possible as well.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Promising
Supreme Hero
HC's avatar uploader
posted July 08, 2012 10:12 AM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 10:20, 08 Jul 2012.

More suggestions:

For Grassland I would say drop Necropolis.For troops I suggest:
-Boar(common or core)
-Peasant(common or core)
-Horseman(with spear,elite)

For Prairie,Academy could be in.As for troops:
-Wolf(common or core)
-Centaur(core or elite)
-Ox rider(maybe an orc,elite)

For Snow terrain,drop Academy or Stronghold.I would suggest as troops:
-Yeti(core or elite)
-Polar Bear(core or elite)

Swamp is ok for all factions you listed.My suggestions for troops are:
-Bog Elf(archer,common or core)
-Troglodyte(or it works better for underground?)
-Crocodile(elite or core) or some kind of giant serpent
-Coatl(elite) or Swamp Ogre

For underground:
-Tunnel Spider
-Troglodyte
-Worm Digger

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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted July 08, 2012 02:36 PM
Edited by Jiriki9 at 16:29, 08 Jul 2012.

Quote:

For Grassland I would say drop Necropolis.For troops I suggest:
-Boar(common or core)
-Peasant(common or core)
-Horseman(with spear,elite)

I'll probably do it. ... all depends on which factions and terrains I put in overall.
For the units, they are nice, yet I'd also like the halfling in somehow...not sure for the horseman...

Quote:
For Prairie,Academy could be in.As for troops:
-Wolf(common or core)
-Centaur(core or elite)
-Ox rider(maybe an orc,elite)

It could, yet somehow for me prairie symbolized things very different to academy...It is not unprobable, though, that academy will be in.
Centaur is definitively in. Wolf may go to snow...Ox RIder...maybe rather just "Bull" or, wilder, "Aurochs"?

Quote:
For Snow terrain,drop Academy or Stronghold.I would suggest as troops:
-Yeti(core or elite)
-Polar Bear(core or elite)

rather hard.
Yeti was in my mind, too. Poalr bear is excellent, though I may expand it to the "Panzerbear" of Pullmans "HdM" trilogy.

Quote:
Swamp is ok for all factions you listed.My suggestions for troops are:
-Bog Elf(archer,common or core)
-Troglodyte(or it works better for underground?)
-Crocodile(elite or core) or some kind of giant serpent
-Coatl(elite) or Swamp Ogre

What seperates the bog elf from the other elves? Troglodyte would better be underground imo. Crocodile may well be a very nice idea. Coatl may be nice as well. What also is in my mind is some kind of Wisp.

Quote:
For underground:
-Tunnel Spider
-Troglodyte
-Worm Digger

Troglodyte is really probable, unless it goes into dungeon, which I'll also add. Worm Digger is what? Tunnel Spider should definitely be in in some way

EDIT: Decided for 8 factions for now - Temple (Scaled folk) added. Added my ideas on terrain-faction relation so far (which faction can dwell where), yet there are some unclear points...ideal would be that each faction dwells in 5 terrains and in each terrain 4 different factions can dwell...

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Xerox
Xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 08, 2012 06:05 PM

I think this is a very interesting concept.
But I would change a few things.

First off, I would get ride off the terrain requirements. Imo that's just an unnescessary restriction. I've always been against terrain impacting gameplay.

Secondly, I would add an alignment-requirement for districts. It doesn't make sense for there to be Demon districts in a Haven town and having Demons fighting alongside Knights.
Using the H5 factions, alignments could look like this:

Haven - Necropolis - Fortress - Sylvan

Inferno - Dungeon - Academy - Stronghold

Sylvan - Dungeon - Stronghold - Fortress

Necropolis - Academy - Haven - Dungeon

Academy - Necropolis - Haven - Inferno

Dungeon - Stronghold - Necropolis - Inferno

Fortress - Haven - Academy - Sylvan

Stronghold - Sylvan - Inferno - Fortress


But I can also see some big negatives with all this. In the later games, rather than each creature having random abilities, creatures have abilties that contribute to the creatures having a very good synergy between them. The creatures "work together" and kinda feel like a team.

That synergy makes the factions interesting, fun and more strategic to play as. With all this faction-mixing, you would risk losing that synergy and make less interesting factions.  

You also get issues with how you are going to balance it and what you are going to with stuff such as racial skills.
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Over himself, over his own body and
mind, the individual is sovereign.
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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted July 13, 2012 04:54 PM

Quote:
First off, I would get ride off the terrain requirements. Imo that's just an unnescessary restriction. I've always been against terrain impacting gameplay.

I won't. It IS a key idea of this, and I think it is fun as well as more logical.

Quote:
Secondly, I would add an alignment-requirement for districts. It doesn't make sense for there to be Demon districts in a Haven town and having Demons fighting alongside Knights.

This is planned by having factions excluding each other. This will be:

Haven and Inferno
Sylvan and Dungeon
Academy and Stronghold
Temple and Necropolis

Or, maybe:
Academy: No Stronghold or Temple
Dungeon: No Sylvan or Stronghold
Haven: No Inferno or Necropolis
Inferno: No Haven or Temple
Necropolis: No Haven or Sylvan
Stronghold: No Academy or Dungeon
Sylvan: No Dungeon or Necropolis
Temple: No Inferno or Academy

Quote:
But I can also see some big negatives with all this. In the later games, rather than each creature having random abilities, creatures have abilties that contribute to the creatures having a very good synergy between them. The creatures "work together" and kinda feel like a team.

That synergy makes the factions interesting, fun and more strategic to play as. With all this faction-mixing, you would risk losing that synergy and make less interesting factions.

Hmm. Two things for this. First, synergy is only one way to make things fun. Rather flat point, but still not unweighty, imo.
Second, synergy is not lost in this, I think, but there are rather other options for synergy - the synergy is not one given, but with your choices you can create different synergies. ...the question here is also if you look for direct or indirect synergies? Direct would be like symbiosis in H5, connecting 2 units directly by their abilites. Indirect coudl be things like a unit haivng an ability somehow supporting ranged units, fast units or enduring units,  thus creating a synergy to these...

Quote:
You also get issues with how you are going to balance it and what you are going to with stuff such as racial skills.

Definitely. But I found you ALLWAYS have balance issues^^ and racial skills...well, I'm working on the corresponding Hero system still...

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MattII Online
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted July 14, 2012 03:00 AM
Edited by MattII at 03:01, 14 Jul 2012.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm failing to see what kind of strategic advantage this provides over the normal game, except that it prevents you jumping some of the low and intermediate level dwellings.

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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted July 14, 2012 03:54 AM

The strategic advancement is that you get CHOICE instead of a pre-given line-up which adds to variability of games which adds to replayability.

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MattII Online
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted July 14, 2012 04:06 AM

So how many dwellings do you have room for in a finished town? And which of the so far three districts per faction is the inner one?

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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted July 14, 2012 04:19 AM

For the number of dwellings in a town:

Quote:
Fort
The role of the military Town buildins is quite exteneded in this system. In HoMM3 and 5 I often experienced that first all Unit buildings were built, and later the fort upgrading began. That's no longer possible, for the fort regulates the buildable number of dwellings. It also opens new slots in the city garrison. Large part of the City Defense buildings, on the other hand, are different buildings now (a bit similar to H2).
A summary on the effects of fort and its upgrades:
-A town without Fort has only 3 garrison slots for defense. Fort/Citadel/Castle allows 5/6/7 slots.
-Without Fort, only common unit dwellings can be built. Fort/Citadel/Castle allows Core/Elite/Champion Buildings.
-Fort/Citadel/Castle increase the Military Power of a Town by 2/5/7

Military Power
The Military Power of a town symbolized how well the Military works and is controlled. It determines the strength of defense Buildings, the growth rate and the number of Dwellings that can be built in the whole town.
1. The strengths of defense buildings is 50%/100%/125%/150% for Military Power of 0-2/3-5/6-8/9+
2. The Growth rate is 50/100/150/200% for Military Power of 0-2/3-5/6-8/9+
3. The Military Power directly determines how many dwellings can be built. (So a Military Power of 6, f.e., allows 6 dwellings)


For the other question: None. Each town has an Inner District, which is not of the Faction, but Terrain-specific. All the Terrain-related buildings (I think it will be 3 dwellings and one special) are built in the Inner District, as well as all basic buildings like market, tavern, Halls, Fort, etc. Also, the Inner District determines which Outer districts can be built.

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MattII Online
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted July 14, 2012 05:10 AM

Ah, right, thanks for explaining. Just one thing, so far there only seems to be 3 Outer Districts per town, so doesn't that mean that by the time you get the Capitol/Capitol-analogue you'll have access to all the Districts anyway?

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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted July 14, 2012 05:12 AM
Edited by Jiriki9 at 04:43, 15 Jul 2012.

EDIT: MattIIs comments, especially the last, got me thinking.
Probably, there wil be a major change, introducing the following:
-reduction of maximum districts to 3
-cross-faction Level 3 Districts

Furthermore, there may come 2 more factions on the long run, and I'd like to know from you which of these you would like most:
-Fortress: Dwarves, Mountain Giants, maybe Avians
-Free Cities of the East
-Hive: Arthopodian units - Insects, Spiders, Centipedes, Trilobites...
-Stone-Folk: Rather explanaratory
-Portal/Circle/Ethernaut: Ethereal/Spiritual Folk
-Technopolis/Machine Fortress: Technocrats with a whole lot of mechanical units
-Keep: Night Creatures

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted July 15, 2012 07:16 AM

Fortress, Hive (I'm a little cynical but still) and Keep.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted July 15, 2012 07:18 AM

Fortress and Free Cities
____________
"Cheesburger in a Can, by the people who brought you Soup in an Envelope." -Tom Rhodes

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