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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 26, 2013 09:45 PM |
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Quote:
Okay, how do you determine what rights animals have?
Well, in this case where there is absolutely no harm in preventing something that has no actual benefit to anyone, I think it shouldn't be a hard decision. My focus is on cruelty though, I agree with JJ that it's impossible to track down 0.0000000000000002 of humanity who wants to go down on a horse anyway. But then again, if it's legal, people may want to make porn of it and some stuff is just symbolical.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 26, 2013 10:02 PM |
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Some people want to have sex with animals. Whether they should be legally allowed to do so depends on their rights and the rights of animals. Assuming that the person in question is an adult, they are capable of making a decision regarding whether they can have sex, so the problem isn't on their end. The question then is: is the animal harmed by someone having sex with it, and, if so, is that morally relevant? Because if either it's not harmed or if it being harmed as a consequence of something else doesn’t matter, then preventing the human from having sex with the animal is harming the human.
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Eccentric Opinion
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 26, 2013 10:20 PM |
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mvass,do you mind if I give an example and you follow the logical steps I write down and tell me where the logic fails:
1.A woman have sex with a dog on regular basis.
2.She has a 12yo daugther,who knows what her mother is doing.
3.When the mother is away,the dog seeks the sexual contact it had and finds the daughter convenient for it(it has no knowledge or respect for human laws nor it would understand the human logic).
4.Sex with the dog harms the daughter.
5.What would the mother do?
Isn't she responsible for creating the habbit itself,which made the dog to seek fulfiling its habbits through her daughter?
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 26, 2013 10:33 PM |
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Quote:
@JJ. I was just responding to the fact that why is killing different than beating an animal.)
But your assumption is wrong: since killing animals isn't NEEDED for anything (you can survive without), you are just wrong. You do not need to kill ANY animal - killing an animal for food is just doing it for the PLEASURE of eating meat, not for NECESSITY.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 26, 2013 10:43 PM |
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@JJ; what's wrong in calling someone frigid. It strictly has no pejorative meaning, it means lack of desire and aversion about sexual intercourse. In what naming someone asexual is more correct than frigid? Or it is again about political correctness, which asks to never call a cat a cat?
It strictly has a MASSIVELY pejorative meaning.
Asexuals do not have an aversion against sex. They just have no fun with it. Or desire. "Frigid" is a pejorative because it is used reproachfully, as if it was their fault somehow. Frigid sounds like an ailment that can and should be cured. Asexual sounds like something you just have to accept because you are born that way.
Asexual brings things into the right context. It means you are just BORN that way.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 26, 2013 10:55 PM |
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And from where you hold your claims about frigid being pejorative and no sex aversion? The asexual movement in France actually openly claim they have aversion for sexual intercourse while they want this to be considered normal.
There is no difference between frigid and asexual, same thing, two names. One was sometimes used as pejorative, you jump on semantics as argument. But the strict definition is available, check. In fact, they even do not even mention the frigid issue, is about social status.
Quote:
Asexual sounds like something you just have to accept because you are born that way.
Eee, and how you know that? So far, only a doctor can check then explore the causes and determinate if your lack of desire it caused by unpleasant experiences or is natural. Yet the victim can believe she is asexual, while is only temporary and can certainly be cured. I mean, a large percentage of women claim never experiencing orgasm, while the guy is probably awkward. Then they wrongly think it is their problem, while is not. Then it becomes a permanent state, and here you have the false asexual/frigid.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 26, 2013 10:58 PM |
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@ML
 genius
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 26, 2013 11:04 PM |
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I never said meat was necessary. God I remembered just why I hate OSM. First you shove something in others mouth and then call him wrong.
So what if it is for taste? Anything you eat needs to die. There is no other way to eat. BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO FORCE-FEED OR KICK THE ANIMALS IN ORDER TO EAT THEM. That is not required. Understand?
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 26, 2013 11:09 PM |
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Quote:
And from where you hold your claims about frigid being pejorative and no sex aversion? The asexual movement in France actually openly claim they have aversion for sexual intercourse while they want this to be considered normal.
There is no difference between frigid and asexual, same thing, two names. One was sometimes used as pejorative, you jump on semantics as argument. But the strict definition is available, check. In fact, they even do not even mention the frigid issue, is about social status.
Quote:
Asexual sounds like something you just have to accept because you are born that way.
Eee, and how you know that? So far, only a doctor can check then explore the causes and determinate if your lack of desire it caused by unpleasant experiences or is natural. Yet the victim can believe she is asexual, while is only temporary and can certainly be cured.
God, why are you so keen to judge?
I don't know whether you have any knowledge about language and words and their meaning, but in Germany frigid is VERY degrading. ItÄ's a very old word, and it's used to explain why the hell sex was crappy.
Why don't you just LET them. They aren't hurting anyone, don't they?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 26, 2013 11:13 PM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 26, 2013 11:17 PM |
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Quote:
I never said meat was necessary. God I remembered just why I hate OSM. First you shove something in others mouth and then call him wrong.
So what if it is for taste? Anything you eat needs to die. There is no other way to eat. BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO FORCE-FEED OR KICK THE ANIMALS IN ORDER TO EAT THEM. That is not required. Understand?
And I thought Finns were bright.
Dude, are you willfully stupid or what? You do not need to eat animals AT ALL? There is NO NECESSITY. You can just be a vegetarian. No problem. So eating meat is PURE PLEASURE.
Now, of course, if you DO eat animals you don't have to kick them.
But if you DO kill humans you don't have to kick them either. Still, if you WOULD kill humans, whether you'd kick them first wouldn't matter that much, and anyone starting a fuzz about it would be a fool.
With animals it's the same thing: there is NO reason WHATSOEVER to eat animals: except that they are considered TASTY. So eating them is A PLEASURE. Not A NECESSITY.
Which means, animals killed for food are killed for pleasure.
What's wrong, then, with KICKING them for pleasure?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 26, 2013 11:19 PM |
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Ah ok, so now because in german it is pejorative (I have no idea about), everywhere it has to be?
Frigid definition.
It's pejorative everywhere. You can easily test that: just ask other people what they think, especially women.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 26, 2013 11:24 PM |
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Edited by artu at 23:35, 26 Apr 2013.
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Quote:
There is NO NECESSITY
That is quite debatable. Some doctors say that meat, especially white meat is necessary during growth, early ages. Not having any meat causes vitamin B deficiency. Also the world is not Europe, in most poorer countries people can't be very selective about what they eat, taking meat out of the equation of food production may cause famine in many countries. Then of course we have thousands of towns and villages that's lively hood is based on fishing, stock breeding, cattle dealing... Taking meat out of human life completely is not as easy as it looks.
An example: when killing whales becomes illegal, the first one to object is Japanese fishermen because they go bankrupt without it and they don't know anything else to do.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 26, 2013 11:30 PM |
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What is wrong with eating meat for pleasure?
But you stance seems to be that it doesn't matter how you treat your meat if eventually it will be killed. I just disagree. And no, I don't consider myself a fool for thiking like that.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 26, 2013 11:34 PM |
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Minion JJ says if it's for pleasure it's in the same category as bestiality. I'd say that's still a big leap.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 26, 2013 11:38 PM |
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Edited by Ghost at 00:13, 27 Apr 2013.
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@JJ
Hm because she don't get a sex (o..) Hah!
Some say nauseating - don't feel anything
EDIT: Right definition she don't know
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 26, 2013 11:42 PM |
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Every pleasure have its own category.
If you doubt that,just ask about the price.
The cases of the same price for a different kind of pleasure are almost non-existant.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 27, 2013 12:11 AM |
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master_learn:
I would expect that a twelve-year-old would be able to prevent a dog from having sex with him/her. That aside (because there are some large dogs, and also because twelve-year-olds shouldn't have to fend off dogs that want to have sex with them), the mother has a responsibility of managing the dog such that it doesn't harm anybody else. Just as someone can own a vicious guard dog as long as it doesn't start attacking passers-by, one can own an animal that has a habit of having sex with humans as long as it doesn't initiate unwanted sexual contact with people other than the owner. The mother should have kept the dog on a leash, or trained it to know that the "NO" command means "No".
minion:
If it's okay to kill animals and eat them for pleasure, why isn't it okay to have sex with them for pleasure? What rights do animals have, and why?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 27, 2013 12:12 AM |
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I want to eat meat but prevent needless cruelty to animals. There is something about that that makes me a fool apparently according to JJ, but it is ok. I can live with that.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 27, 2013 12:27 AM |
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mvass,I refer to the practical side of bestiality,which includes actions with inevitable consiquences,like getting s desease or organize a group with intention of group bestiality.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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