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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Why work when you can get more money from welfare?
Thread: Why work when you can get more money from welfare? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted August 21, 2013 08:05 PM

Why work when you can get more money from welfare?

Welfare as currently implemented in many states is a disincentive for work. Welfare benefits amount to more than minimum wage in 35 states and more than $15 per hour in 13 states. So what incentive do those folks have for NOT sitting on the couch watching a big screen TV all day while drawing 15 bucks an hour?

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Quote:

The current welfare system provides such a high level of benefits that it acts as a disincentive for work. Welfare currently pays more than a minimum-wage job in 35 states, even after accounting for the Earned Income Tax Credit, and in 13 states it pays more than $15 per hour. If Congress and state legislatures are serious about reducing welfare dependence and rewarding work, they should consider strengthening welfare work requirements, removing exemptions, and narrowing the definition of work. Moreover, states should consider ways to shrink the gap between the value of welfare and work by reducing current benefit levels and tightening eligibility requirements.


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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 21, 2013 08:15 PM

lol this is a huge problem in Sweden
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body and
mind, the individual is
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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted August 22, 2013 04:31 PM

Well, for one, if work is mentally challenging, a accomplishment, or fun, or the socialization is fun, then, why sit at home?
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 22, 2013 08:04 PM

That's not the alternative, WORK or WELFARE, because there are those, for example, who can't work for this or that reason.

The main thing is, that a person who does habe no valid excuse SHOULD work - whether for welfare or for salary.
In my opinion the government of a state SHOULD act as an employer, for unprofitable work: keeping the public parks and buildings clean, refurbish and redevelop  the grounds of defunkt industrial plants and so on, even professional soldiering.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 22, 2013 10:01 PM
Edited by Fauch at 22:11, 22 Aug 2013.

unprofitable work seems to be something capitalism doesn't want to encourage at all, even though it may be socially useful.

I think the welfare problem has nothing to do with some people being a dead weight for the community.
I think it has more to do with people being free from work, and thus, not under control.
I think it also has to do with profits. according to Bernard Friot, the GDP in France is divided between salaries and profits. 60% for salaries, 40% for profits. welfare goes in the salaries part, as well as unemployment benefits or retirement pensions, which would be the reason for reforming retirement pensions in Europe.


also, don't believe that reducing welfare benefits or forcing people to work will improve the situation for workers. no. it will only be better for rich people. the rest of the population will just receive an even smaller part of the cake.


how can you work for welfare? I think it's not possible in France. having an unprofitable work doesn't entitle you to receive welfare or any kind of money.

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Gnomes2169
Gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted August 24, 2013 12:08 AM

In Minnesota, the disincentive is that you can only receive it for up to two years in a row, and only five years in a decade. In other words, even though you can live off of it, it is temporary aid, nothing more. You have to work eventually. If this is not the norm in most states/ countries, then I see why it can be a problem, giving people a permanent source of money to draw from without working for it is just not stable economically... Temporary aid, nothing more, should be provided.
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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 24, 2013 12:12 AM

What happens when the time runs out?
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Celfious
Celfious


Promising
Legendary Hero
Regular
posted August 24, 2013 12:16 AM

if everyone on welfare and similar financial programs worked one hour a month to clean up the neighborhoods in one way or another, we  would have very few littered areas.  

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 24, 2013 12:36 AM

there are places that do that in Sweden, I think it's great because you're not supposed to be comfortable living on wellfare
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted August 24, 2013 12:56 AM

The question is this: Can I make a significant difference in my earnings by getting a job?

The answer often is: no, and no one needs your skills. So the system sort of came up with living wages to keep these people from rioting.

"I hate this new, paranoid Dagoth."
Well, I still love you, random citizen!
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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 24, 2013 02:03 AM

Gnomes2169 said:
giving people a permanent source of money to draw from without working for it is just not stable economically...


actually I think it is way better than what we currently have.

and actually, with the technology available today, normally, work should have almost disappeared. and if the goal of work was really to be socially valuable, I'm sure we would actually work very little.

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted August 24, 2013 05:45 AM

Quote:
and actually, with the technology available today, normally, work should have almost disappeared

That's why we don't work 13 hours  aday and 7 days a week, as in some third-world countries. Also, we work at computers or with customers instead of deep mines or cotton fields. That's how it "almost" dissapeared.

But someone still needs to work to earn for the living, you know. People (and countries) don't get money just for the fact they are awesome, people get money for doing actually useful things. And they live  because they do useful tings, not just browse computer game forums
If majority of people don't work, countries get into debts and eventually collapses. Oh wait, that already happens. We call it "financial crisis" but it's actually the crysis of civilisation - entire population does too little to survive and slowly dies out.

Ouch, quite an apocalyptic vision I came up with.


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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 24, 2013 02:30 PM
Edited by Fauch at 14:33, 24 Aug 2013.

Warmonger said:
That's why we don't work 13 hours  aday and 7 days a week

I think that was never ever needed. and weren't the 13 hours per day like an actual increase of work because of industrialization, in order to exploit to the maximum the productive capacity of machines?


Quote:
Also, we work at computers or with customers instead of deep mines or cotton fields. That's how it "almost" dissapeared.

because no one works in mines or cotton fields?


Quote:
But someone still needs to work to earn for the living, you know. People (and countries) don't get money just for the fact they are awesome, people get money for doing actually useful things.

well, you are wrong, that's the contrary. the economy of goods and services represents less than 10% of the total economy. more than 90% of the money comes from rich people "playing in their casino". probably because they are awesome.


Quote:

If majority of people don't work, countries get into debts and eventually collapses. Oh wait, that already happens. We call it "financial crisis" but it's actually the crysis of civilisation - entire population does too little to survive and slowly dies out.


that is absolutely not the cause of the crisis and has little to nothing to do with it. the monetary system (at least in Europe and in the USA) forces us to be in debt, since money creation is actually creation of a debt. also deregulations of the economy allowed irresponsible speculation that  led to several bubbles that caused the crisis. (that's also the cause of the very little place of the economy of goods and services in economy today)

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 24, 2013 02:42 PM

Well Fauch, bashing on rich is something I hear so often in France, and it is so wrong. Becoming rich isn't possible because you are awesome. It is a long process, it needs genius ideas, will, discipline and a lot of sweat. Even if someone is born in a rich family, this means some ancestral did it somehow. The exceptions to this are extremely rare.

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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 24, 2013 03:10 PM

If your welfare pays more than work.

Why the snow anyone work at those less paying jobs?

Are americans really that fricking stupid?
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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted August 24, 2013 03:20 PM

When I want 6m+6m job!! So I get more than 1000 every month without job in 500 days.. But you know I don't need say all truth

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 24, 2013 03:44 PM
Edited by Fauch at 15:44, 24 Aug 2013.

well, I think playing in rich's casino isn't about becoming rich, but about become richer.

and are we talking about the same rich people? if they are genius, they don't need to speculate to make money, do they?

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted August 24, 2013 03:49 PM

Hm maybe - maybe! My guy and his bro play casino in the world. His job! World don't know who he's Great casino demand identification card So you can view 21 movie

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Gnomes2169
Gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted August 24, 2013 04:09 PM

xerox said:
What happens when the time runs out?

You do not get to use welfare, and must in fact work for their money. I thought this would be obvious...
____________
Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 24, 2013 04:29 PM

well, when I say "casino" it refers more to financial economy than actual cards game. maybe it is used that way only in France?

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