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| Thread: Malaysia Airlines Flight shot down over Ukraine |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 18, 2014 05:31 PM |
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And you're the one who is telling us about lame conspiracy theories 
No proofs of this kind can be seen. Minor armored vehicles and even some tanks - probably, there are some videos. But a high-tech vehicle+skilled crew still remains a mystery. Also, a version with the air-to-air fight is also not dropped out.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 18, 2014 06:04 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 18:05, 18 Jul 2014.
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blizzardboy said:
The equipment you need to sink a high altitude jetliner isn't something you pick up on the street. Whoever shot it down must have been somebody semi-important. My guess is, somebody, somewhere, made a very stupid decision, and the side they're on is now very nervous because of it.
Yet not for one second would you think it's a false flag. You immediately believe what the media already gave you to chew. How unlikely is it that this was all set up to have more sanctions put on Russia and instigate more hate to manipulate the public opinion? How do you explain we already have an explanation before any investigation was even made?
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted July 18, 2014 06:07 PM |
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Likewise, there is no proof that it was the ukrainian army that shot it down. I agee with b-boy, that seems the most likely scenario, however no matter who shot it down - ultimately the responsibility lies with Russia for continuing to destabilise the region.
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none of my business.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 18, 2014 07:58 PM |
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veco said:
ultimately the responsibility lies with Russia for continuing to destabilise the region.
This is getting so old... The responsibility lies with both sides. Both. Not Russia. Those "terrorists" are being bombarded with planes and artillery in... what, their homes? And you expect them to just lay down their arms because you heard in the news that Russia destabilizes the regions? That's not how it works. It never worked that way and never will (hint - recent history of the Balkans). Basically someone has to separate the two groups and force them to talk instead of shoot. Problem is - nobody has the interest to do so at this point. Hence one of the reasons why you hear all kinds of premature crap in the news about this incident before there is even a grain of objective evidence that can be used to blame anyone.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted July 18, 2014 08:27 PM |
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Tsar-Ivor said:
If Ukraine cannot control what happens within her borders then it should be dissolved and taken over by someone who can.
indeed it should.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted July 18, 2014 08:27 PM |
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Quote:
Hence one of the reasons why you hear all kinds of premature crap in the news about this incident before there is even a grain of objective evidence that can be used to blame anyone.
So true, everyone trying to fuel their 'hidden' agendas. If you took Russia to court to lay the blame at their feet then the court would immediately rule 'no case', for there is none.
Both sides throwing blame onto one another, ****ing ace, international law my ass, there is none, for there is no objective force to enforce and uphold it.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 18, 2014 08:33 PM |
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well the separatists are a boon to the EU and NATO because they're probably pushing the Ukrainian majority to the west, as seen with the president they elected
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Vasilisa995
Hired Hero
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posted July 19, 2014 07:03 AM |
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I was horrified. Even Russian News showed these news.
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Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted July 19, 2014 08:09 AM |
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Quote:
If Ukraine cannot control what happens within her borders then it should be dissolved and taken over by someone who can.
If no one has absolute control over a warzone's airspace, then it's not the most prudent of ideas to direct passenger planes across it.
Similarly, you couldn't really blame either side if you decided to have a picnic in a minefield. And it wouldn't really matter whose landmine it was that finally helped illustrate why you shouldn't have listened to the guy who told you the view from over there is just mindblowing.
That said, I'm glad to see all these minds working to discover the truth behind these seemingly random and utterly retarded events. I am, however, astonished that none of you put the whole thing in the right context.
Because there is one thing in this particular tragedy that connects all the dots in the past several months into a single, devilishly cunning picture that covers it all. That's right, the plane was loaded with AIDS researchers.
This is all a part of an especially devious long-term plan hatched by Putin where he capitalizes on HIV as a biochemical weapon against the Western world. First he bans the spreading of the Gay in the Motherland, then watches with glee as the West rigs Conchita Wurst's victory to spite him, therefore turning children gay and - as is a well known fact in conservative societies - exposing them to buckets of AIDS. Secretly, over his ex-KGB channels, he funds libertarian thought that keeps the West believing that the gay-straight issue is not boolean, but a scale, and that everyone's a little bit homosexual, thereby exposing them to a little bit of AIDS (which, much like marijuana, is lethal even in the smallest of doses). This is done through agents-provocateurs, of which apparently the closest to us is Xerox, obviously on Soviet payroll all along.
Meanwhile, in Russia, everyone is precisely 0% gay, therefore multiplying and, in as little as several decades, gaining a serious advantage in manpower which can then be herded onto enemy machine guns until they overrun them and institute tsarism, communism and every other type of Russian ism-y evil upon the free world.
If you are reading this, chances are I am already being aimed at by Mossad snipers and that I won't have time to explain how exactly the Jews are, once again, behind it all. This most obvious part of the puzzle is up to you.
Sheeple.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 19, 2014 08:15 AM |
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Damn you, Bak! Why did you have to post all this? Do you know how hard it was for me give the order? Damn you, damn you, DAMN YOU!
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted July 19, 2014 08:43 AM |
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Edited by Baklava at 08:54, 19 Jul 2014.
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@BB
Quote:
The equipment you need to sink a high altitude jetliner isn't something you pick up on the street.
Meh.
Our lads downed US stealth bombers and fighters in '99. with Soviet AA equipment from the '60s. Slavs are a crafty bunch of goblins. And you'd be surprised at how much cold war weaponry we've got laying about.
How difficult can it be to wreck a large-arse civilian transport plane in comparison?
I also recon they've got access to fresher Soviet military junk over there.
@Genman
It's 8 AM and I ran out of coffee. Much like every man in my position, I feel I have nothing to lose. I'm coming out with the truth, Genman, and there is nothing you can do to stop me.
(Stray rocket from Ukraine hits student in the Balkans. Pro-Russian separatist involvement suspected. Orzie and Ihor post random cyrillic shyte at each other vigorously.)
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted July 19, 2014 09:17 AM |
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Quote:
No proofs of this kind can be seen.
Bad news - all the West, especially the USA, have their satellites aimed straight at eastern Ukraine. They simply see everything, especially large explosions. Obama had no doubts telling on conference where the missle was launched.
Not to mention Buk launcher was observed and captured in many photos taken on that day, as well as in blog posts by seperatists or their allies themselves. Nothing is lost in the internet.
Quote:
If Ukraine cannot control what happens within her borders then it should be dissolved and taken over by someone who can.
That's exactly the Putins plan. He didn't hesistate to gift seperatists with modern weaponry and skilled soldiers, but giving away missles to the insane finally brought this tragedy.
____________
The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted July 19, 2014 09:22 AM |
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I am curious who else here except Orzie thinks that Russia is not involved in the conflict. That looks pointless to spend time and find those videos again, but if anybody wants I can find that:
1) 3 different russian citizens filmed the same event that GRAD was used from Russian territory near Gukovo several days ago (Gukovo is a Russian city near Ukraine border). Yeah, it's russians who filmed and uploaded to youtube.
2) Russian border guard published several photos on instagram about tanks and APCs crossing border. Bragging is evil.
3) Russian citizens filmed videos of APCs left on road from Rostov to Novoshakhtynsk(?).
4) The weapons exposition was being in Kyiv, which many ambassadors from different countries visited. Plenty of different weapons from "Igla" and "Strela" MANPADS and up to destroyed GRADs. Some of the weapons is of type that is being used only in Russian army, some with russian marking.
5) Let's think who commands the separatists.
-Strelkov(aka Girkin, aka Strelok) - russian, former GRU officer
-Bezler(aka Bes) - russian, former FSB officer
6) Terrorists published a video of so called "press conference" on 7th of July where Kurginyan (soviet and then russian political analyst) clearly states that Russia helps separatists with weapons. Gubarev (one of the separatists leaders) responds that they need more weaponry from Russia.
7) I already published a BBC video in Ukraine thread about Chechens in Donetsk.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted July 19, 2014 09:26 AM |
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Quote:
If Ukraine cannot control what happens within her borders then it should be dissolved and taken over by someone who can.
By this logic:
There should be no Norway because of Anders Breiwik.
There should be no Russia because of chechen terrorism.
There should be no Spain because of ETA.
[PUT ANY COUNTY HERE]
There should be no countries at all because of murders, rapes and other crimes.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 19, 2014 10:57 AM |
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Warmonger said:
Bad news - all the West, especially the USA, have their satellites aimed straight at eastern Ukraine. They simply see everything, especially large explosions. Obama had no doubts telling on conference where the missle was launched
Problem is, the US is very very interested in spreading disinformation about the whole thing so you can theoretically trust it no more than Russia. Of course, if you choose to pick one over the other based on some personal sentiments, that's another story.
I think the main question should be - what was this plane doing there? It could have been shot by the separatists, it could have been shot by a SAM missile of the Ukrainian army. But it should not have been there at all in the first place.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted July 19, 2014 12:08 PM |
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ihor said:
Quote:
If Ukraine cannot control what happens within her borders then it should be dissolved and taken over by someone who can.
By this logic:
There should be no Norway because of Anders Breiwik.
There should be no Russia because of chechen terrorism.
There should be no Spain because of ETA.
[PUT ANY COUNTY HERE]
There should be no countries at all because of murders, rapes and other crimes.
My comment refers to the fact that Ukraine is incompetent and incapable of maintaining the security withing her borders. It is inhuman to live under a regime that is too weak to protect its citizens and maintain its own sovereignty. Now its incompetence has caused the further deaths of 298 people, many of whom are foreign nationals. Therefore Ukraine's incompetence no longer just endangers its own citizens, but the citizens of other powers which demands action. Personally I'd chop the country into their regions and distribute them to the world powers who possess the means and ability to maintain order and unity.
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted July 19, 2014 03:06 PM |
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Your comment does not make sense at all.
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 19, 2014 04:06 PM |
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Huh, don't even try to say things like that to Ihor. His country has happily existed for long 23 years, and splitting it again would be terrible to Ukrainians whose New national idea is territorial unity (I wonder if Ihor even cared about the southwest and its citizens, say, a year ago. But anyway).
Well, I didn't say russia is not involved. It of course is, it has its own interests, but somehow ihor ignores the fact that the US have their interests too. Russia is already in bad relations with Georgia (a former closest ally, orthodox Christian!) and now we have the second war, the second snow.
About throwing Cyrillic at each other - yeah, both sin and fun.
Back to topic. The plane is obviously used for further bashing Russia. The yesterday UN session showed that everyone is prematurely turned against it without any investigations, and everyone is not going to investigate the numerous crimes against humanity in the shape of bombing towns and killing locals, lying on tv that Ukrainian army doesn't hurt a single house. The whole hystery about high tech anti-air vehicles is a try to get rid of the responsibility for allowing the plane to fly over the battle zone. Separatists would blow every plane they see, because the planes usually bring troopers and destruction.
Second, there are no proofs that it was separatists who blew the plane. that Twitter account which was deleted only shows that Ukraine has something to cover. However I doubt that anyone cares about the proofs. Everyone is biased towards Russia and they will ignore any proofs. No one needs Russia growing in,power. The us cannot live without war. Their army is growing with horribly big tempo. If that does not say anything to you, just keep watching CNN and BBC, and live in a happy world with a pink grass.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted July 19, 2014 05:02 PM |
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Quote:
the US have their interests too.
What kind of interests? USA does not run any business in Ukrain, they also don't need anything from Russia. In fact financial sanctions make it troublesome for USA companies to trade with Russia.
USA is also no longer involved in military conflict with Russia, as it poses no threat for them since the fall of Soviet Union.
On the other hand, EU has a lot to do with Russia, especially importing gas from there. Joining Ukraine as a potential partner could bring many advantages, both financioal and political.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 19, 2014 05:54 PM |
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Well, as I suppose, the US does have a benefit from the situation.
- first of all, including Ukraine in the eu may be the first step for entering NATO. Russia loses the buffer zone between it and NATO, and NATO warbases will be put all over, nullifying Russia's defence. Can you remember any Russian warbase near the US? Y'know, I can't. You must know what was the Caribbean crisis, where the situation was vice versa.
- next, the us is interested in tearing apart the friendly relations between post-Soviet countries, thus preventing the formation of another alliance. First itwas Georgia, then it is Ukraine. The US sponsored the west-oriented administration, and after 23 years we all can see how Ukrainians stop calling Russians brothers and say they wanna go by the civilized way unlike Russia. Basically, it's mostly pride which can't allow Ukrainians to bear their "smaller brother" status - they wanna be equal instead, or even "better" as the nationalist movements suggest.
- thirdly, also an obvious reason for the us is the fact that they don't lose anything while quarreling with Russia. They don't buy Russian gas like the eu does, and don't depend on its resources. Moreover, the us might be pushing the eu to buy their shelf gas instead.
Fourthly, you underestimate Russian warpower. It is of course less than the us one, but 90's are gone, and today in 2014 there is another Russia, with another leader and more opportunities. That's why single Putin has become a Hitler in mass media, like he personally kills people and sends rockets. Of course, it's not true as there is a lit of skilled specialists, and which is no less important, the oligarchs who also have a great influence on Russian politics.
- that is why the us acts the most aggressively towards Russia, and acts as the head chief of all accusations. By the way, I forgot to mention considerably low Obama's ratings, especially after the case with Syria. I remember the video where no one shakes his hand on a summit, and the comments of my American friends saying that they are embarrassed. Obama is also being pushed by American mass media which is more liberal than ours. All this suggests that Obama tries to rehabilitate distracting Americans from their internal problems (American guys here may remember the "health care"
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