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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Battlefield graphics are awful
Thread: Battlefield graphics are awful This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 19, 2014 02:11 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 14:38, 19 Aug 2014.

Double_Trouble said:
What I think is the problem, is this:

Agreed, that is arguably part of the problem. But we see in the video that some battlefields, like the siege battle, is long and narrow, so apparently we'll get different geometries in different situations. This one is more square and therefore also very wide (perhaps to accommodate for the huge catapult taking up most of the central part?), so hopefully on normal battlefields the field will be more narrow and hence default zoom will be closer to fill top/bottom of the screen. Can anybody remember off-hand how many tiles wide the siege battlefield was compared to this one?

EDIT >

Looked it up myself:

- Catapult map is 14 x 13
- Siege map is 25 x 14

So siege map is actually wider than Catapult map. These maps seem unnecessarily wide, I know that an army will potentially hold 7 creatures of size 2x2 but previous games didn't allow to fit that many creatures onto battlefield did they?

EDIT >

A few more numbers: The siege battlefield currently occupies a size of roughly 600 pixels in vertical hight from the borders of the actual battlefield. The total screen size from the top of the initiative bar interface to the top of the screen is roughly 850 pixels. This means that only 70% of the vertical height not occupied by the initiative bar is occupied by battlefield, remaining 30% is occupied by decorations. I realize some space probably needs to be left for interface in top (turn banner) and bottom (action buttons), but perhaps one could try to advocate for a larger default zoom to fill more of this vertical space.
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Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted August 19, 2014 02:46 PM

In heroes 6 the siege battlefield was wider than the normal battlefield, which might also be the case for heroes 7...

I think the huge amount of decorations has something to do with fixed screen size versus variable battlefield size. A horizontally stretched battlefield obviously leaves empty space at the top and bottom which needs to be filled, while a square or vertically stretched battlefield leaves open space at the sides.
Hopefully the battlefields shown are exceptions and the normal battlefield has proportions more similar to the screen.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 19, 2014 04:13 PM

alcibiades said:
- Catapult map is 14 x 13

Catapult map is small on purpose. You're supposed to defend that catapult against enemy units. Had they made the map 24x14, it would have been totally pointless.

AlexSpl said:
Isn't this dragon big enough? And it occupies only one cell...

Fairies or dragonflies being as big as Dragons doesn't shock you ?

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 19, 2014 04:19 PM

Quote:
Fairies or dragonflies being as big as Dragons doesn't shock you

It's all about your imagination after all. You just know that dragons a lot bigger than fairies. If this is a problem, you can always shrink (or scale properly) small creatures.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 19, 2014 04:52 PM

Nelgirith said:
alcibiades said:
- Catapult map is 14 x 13

Catapult map is small on purpose. You're supposed to defend that catapult against enemy units. Had they made the map 24x14, it would have been totally pointless.

Yeah, I get that, my point is that when map is 13 tiles wide, that's not really what I would call "small" - quite on the contrary, that's a fairly wide map, Heroes 5 battlefield was 12x10 tiles if I'm not mistaken, and that didn't seem too narrow, only too short.
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VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted August 19, 2014 05:20 PM
Edited by VOKIALBG at 17:26, 19 Aug 2014.

AlexSpl said:
Quote:
Fairies or dragonflies being as big as Dragons doesn't shock you

It's all about your imagination after all. You just know that dragons a lot bigger than fairies. If this is a problem, you can always shrink (or scale properly) small creatures.


There not going to be bigger. How big as model they are going to be, have nothing to do with the hexes or squares thing. You can make the fairy huge as dragon in a square. Such things were done by modders in H5. So yes, after all hexes are going to work fine and they are better...

+ Yes, a unit like pikemen will take 1 hex. The dragon also will take 1. But you are missing something very, very important. Creatures like pikemen and etc, are in bugger numbers. So why a whole army of pikemen to not take the same number of hexes/squares like few dragons?
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 19, 2014 06:20 PM

The whole numbers thing is a different discussion in as much as game only shows one unit on battlefield, no matter how many units there actually are. In that respect, it makes sense to discuss the size of a pikeman or fairy compared to a dragon - and yes, I think the dragon must be bigger than the pikeman. It might be enough to simply make it bigger in one hex (as shown in the screenshot someone posted above from a game that looks really nice, not sure which one that was from?), or use two adjacent hexes (as we see in the H1 screenshot), or one can use two adjacent squares or 2x2 squares as we saw in H5. Personally, I'm kind of impartial as to whichever is used.
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 19, 2014 06:25 PM

alcibiades said:
The whole numbers thing is a different discussion in as much as game only shows one unit on battlefield, no matter how many units there actually are. In that respect, it makes sense to discuss the size of a pikeman or fairy compared to a dragon - and yes, I think the dragon must be bigger than the pikeman.

Yes, dragon should be bigger than the pikeman, but not by a whole lot. After all, each stack represents an army, therefore they should be big enough to be recognized in an instant.

Real sizes just don't work in HoM&M.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted August 19, 2014 10:04 PM
Edited by MattII at 22:31, 19 Aug 2014.

And nor does number-size, because that would logically mean that a large group of 'small' core creatures would be larger than a small croup of 'small' elite ones, except that doesn't work either, and if it did work like that, then squares would be the better choice as they scale easier (with hexes you only really get 1x1, 1x2 and 3x3, anything in between seems complex and clumsy).

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 20, 2014 09:13 AM

MattII said:
And nor does number-size, because that would logically mean that a large group of 'small' core creatures would be larger than a small croup of 'small' elite ones, except that doesn't work either, and if it did work like that, then squares would be the better choice as they scale easier (with hexes you only really get 1x1, 1x2 and 3x3, anything in between seems complex and clumsy).


That depends on the granularity. No one says that the smallest unit should fit within exactly 1 square or hex. If you allow the smallest unit to fit into say 7 hexes or 4 squares, you can play a bit more with varying sizes.

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VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted August 20, 2014 10:35 AM
Edited by VOKIALBG at 10:37, 20 Aug 2014.

alcibiades said:
The whole numbers thing is a different discussion in as much as game only shows one unit on battlefield, no matter how many units there actually are. In that respect, it makes sense to discuss the size of a pikeman or fairy compared to a dragon - and yes, I think the dragon must be bigger than the pikeman. It might be enough to simply make it bigger in one hex (as shown in the screenshot someone posted above from a game that looks really nice, not sure which one that was from?), or use two adjacent hexes (as we see in the H1 screenshot), or one can use two adjacent squares or 2x2 squares as we saw in H5. Personally, I'm kind of impartial as to whichever is used.


No, no, no. As model - yes the dragon must be bigger, but the hexes he takes may be the same number as the pikemen's hexes, for pikemen are a lot more, and 100 pikemen are most likely taking the same space on the field as few dragons. BUT, we already saw that its going to work fine even if the dragon takes more hexes then 1, no, this is just another argument that hexes work, but not obligatory for them to work.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted August 20, 2014 10:43 AM

Maurice said:
That depends on the granularity. No one says that the smallest unit should fit within exactly 1 square or hex. If you allow the smallest unit to fit into say 7 hexes or 4 squares, you can play a bit more with varying sizes.
Indeed, but make the battlefield too granular and you end up with a situation like in H4, where a creature just one grain out of reach takes no damage.

VOKIALBG said:
No, no, no. As model - yes the dragon must be bigger, but the hexes he takes may be the same number as the pikemen's hexes, for pikemen are a lot more, and 100 pikemen are most likely taking the same space on the field as few dragons.
and 100 pikeman take up more space than a handful of monks, so that doesn't work right either.

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VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted August 20, 2014 10:45 AM
Edited by VOKIALBG at 10:46, 20 Aug 2014.

It wasnt important anyway, it was just another idea, as I said. And it may work, depending on the net. But this is another discussion. So forget it if you like.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 20, 2014 11:48 AM

MattII said:
Indeed, but make the battlefield too granular and you end up with a situation like in H4, where a creature just one grain out of reach takes no damage.


Yes, Heroes IV took it to another extreme. But there's a lot of middleground to be had. Gameplay balancing and testing should be able to prove how granular it would have to be to make it workable.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 22, 2014 02:06 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 02:10, 22 Aug 2014.

Different battlefield geometries in Heroes is something that should have happened by H4.

If the units are too small for your taste on a large battlefield, then move your index finger 1 centimeter away from your body over the roller on your mouse.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 22, 2014 09:34 AM

blizzardboy said:
Different battlefield geometries in Heroes is something that should have happened by H4.

If the units are too small for your taste on a large battlefield, then move your index finger 1 centimeter away from your body over the roller on your mouse.


You use your index finger to operate the mouse wheel? I always use my middle finger for that .

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