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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Dragons as champion units.
Thread: Dragons as champion units. This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2014 06:07 PM

In the M&M universe, Titans are constructs. They are built by wizards. They're not conscious beings, they're more like robots.

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JeremiahEmo
JeremiahEmo


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
posted August 30, 2014 06:10 PM

Steyn said:
That's a difficult question. In my opinion dragons are more boss material than champion. However, as they need to fill two champion slots per faction, I'm afraid dragons will be needed as champion. What I don't want to see is those weak and unimpressive black dragons from heroes 6. If dragons return as champion, I hope it will be more like the heroes 4 black dragons. So dragons would be stronger champions, but with lower growth than regular champions. This would also be in-line with swordbearers being weaker than regularchampion champions, but having higher growth.


you shouldn't underestimate Swordbearers. For all you know, those soldiers are composed of Hercules and Achilles and the like.

Haven't you watched enough fantasy? A mere human beating a dragon is NOT impossible to imagine. Not impossible at all.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 30, 2014 06:22 PM

Stevie said:
In the M&M universe, Titans are constructs. They are built by wizards. They're not conscious beings, they're more like robots.

Except they have a wizard's soul tied to them. I'm not so sure they are mindless but then I haven't read the compedium.

I don't like the idea of special units tied to the grail, the grail is already a huge benefit as it is. But if there is one thing H6 did right was making tears of Asha easier to acquire and Asha buildings costly. Going in that direction would be nice.

And I like dragons as champions, who doesn't? Emerald vs black dragons and black dragons vs titans are too classic to eliminate. I'd love seeing the phoenixes return to sylvan(as sun phoenixes or something to bend the lore..) but uber defensive slow treants? That'd be kinda lame. Phoenix and emerald dragon would be just fine. And dungeon without blackies.. they might as well discard the faction. Bone dragons don't concern me too much though that's probably because no heroes has managed to nail them down. They could be a cool champion if done right and balanced accordingly. Still.. a reaper with a gorgon's death stare special and a death knight as a melee powerhouse would probably be more fun.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 30, 2014 06:24 PM
Edited by artu at 18:38, 30 Aug 2014.

Stevie said:
In the M&M universe, Titans are constructs. They are built by wizards. They're not conscious beings, they're more like robots.

That may be the case, I usually skip the computer game literature and don't even bother to read it, it's just something they make up in a day to spice up the game, anyhow.

But Titans, just like Dragons, have a traditional mythological gravitas and since the producers bend the story according to the game and not the other way around, if they bend it again, nobody will care. Titans fighting Dragons doesn't feel wrong, the literature of a computer game will fill in the blanks accordingly, if that's the objective. It's not real literature or authentic mythology, it's just there to serve the game play.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2014 06:58 PM

Elvin said:
I don't like the idea of special units tied to the grail, the grail is already a huge benefit as it is.


You know what you always told me? Implementation.

Elvin said:
And I like dragons as champions, who doesn't? Emerald vs black dragons and black dragons vs titans are too classic to eliminate.


Elvis, do you understand why I'm saying we could use a 4th tier, and if you do, do you agree with the idea? Before we proceed on talking about any details...

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 30, 2014 08:00 PM

Stevie said:
I'll tell you why, so you don't have Swordbearer and Dragons with the same title. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU, CHAMO?

As I explained, I don't see any issue there.

And why you keep calling me that?

Stevie said:
It dignifies Dragons to be as the lore says they are - MOST POWERFUL MYTHICAL BEINGS. Not mass produced creatures by the local town factory. Dragons attracted by the power of a Tear of Asha would provide the perfect explanation for them being present in a town.

You know, Dragons could stay as champions and still be the strongest of them. But adding a new creature tier just because a line of lore portrays dragons as really strong feels overzealous to me. Specially with the gameplay price we'd have to pay, just no.

Storm-Giant said:
Define that "special" please. What do I take from them exactly? Em... nothing?... This isn't even an argument, dude! You would have the same relationship between Champions and Elite with Boss and Champion. THE SAME!

I don't know - the creature that stands above everyone else in that faction, the champion of that faction? Or in other words, maiking it redundant?
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2014 08:05 PM

I get it you don't like my idea Stormy.
You don't like me calling you chamo? Isn't that "dude" in spanish?

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 30, 2014 08:06 PM

Stevie said:
You don't like me calling you chamo? Isn't that "dude" in spanish?

Never ever heard of it before you called me, lol

It must be some way to call dude in southamerica, but surely not in Spain
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 30, 2014 08:09 PM
Edited by artu at 20:14, 30 Aug 2014.

Do you call each other "amigo" in every day talk or is that also made up?

Btw, Urban Dictionary says Chamo is a Venezuelan term for buddy, pal.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 30, 2014 08:16 PM

artu said:
Do you call each other "amigo" in every day talk or is that also made up?

Nope, but 'tío' is rather frecuent (at least where I live, coz I know in Andalucía they like to say 'picha' a lot, lol)
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2014 08:25 PM

I'll be more than happy to call you picha (pene), Stormy. It's perfect!

Picha.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 30, 2014 08:29 PM

I wouldn't recomment to emulate the andaluces...specially when it's so likely you'll say something you don't understand
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2014 08:36 PM
Edited by Stevie at 20:37, 30 Aug 2014.

It means pene, cuca, but the andaluces use it as tío.
http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=picha
https://es.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060721195956AAE8bw0

You know what, too much off topic. I'll just stick with Chamo.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2014 11:55 PM

War-overlord said:
mvassilev said:
I like the idea of Dragons as Grail creatures, but having them as champion units works too, as long as there aren't too many of them. Dungeon should definitely have one - it's tradition. It works in Sylvan, too. After that, it crosses into "too many dragons" territory.

Does that go for Bone Dragons in Necropolis as well?
I forgot about bone dragons. They're sufficiently different from normal dragons that it's okay to have them. But it's also okay not to have them - if the Champion units are a spider (like in H6) and a grim reaper (like in H5), that's fine too.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 31, 2014 12:21 AM

Stevie said:
You know what you always told me? Implementation.

Elvis, do you understand why I'm saying we could use a 4th tier, and if you do, do you agree with the idea? Before we proceed on talking about any details...

Implementation can make or break a feature. But giving access to super powerful troops through the grail makes little gameplay sense, simply because getting the grail is not guaranteed. It would be better if a 4th tier was part of the regular town-building so that it was accessible to all players, regardless of finding a Tear of Asha or not.

I would like a 4th tier but not in the way you imagine it. I'd like to have the champion tier improved but wouldn't care to see a more powerful tier above it. Instead I'd like to have more intermediate tiers on the way to champion. Something like core, [...] and elite with 2 units in each.
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PhoenixMK
PhoenixMK


Hired Hero
Burn baby, BURN!!!
posted August 31, 2014 02:22 AM
Edited by PhoenixMK at 02:24, 31 Aug 2014.

Interesting question since most of us adore dragons but I voted for the second option because I want something different from old HoMM games. I do not want dragons in most towns but I would like to see them as bosses in Heroes 7.
However, dragons are traditional units in Sylvan and Dungeon and it would be odd if there are no dragons in their lineup.

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted August 31, 2014 08:53 AM
Edited by Avonu at 09:11, 31 Aug 2014.

I just wanted to check, how many dragons we have in various factions in Ashan. A lot:

Academy: Dragon Golem


Dungeon: Shadow, Red, Black Dragons, Daugther of Malassa (boss)




Fortress: Fire, Magma, Lava Dragons


Haven: Dragon Knight of Elrath (boss)


Necropolis: Bone, Ghost, Spectral, Putrid Dragons, Dragonwraith (boss)






Stronghold: Bloofrienzed Wyvern*, Pao-Kai, Shi-No-Shi - Deep Elder (Immortal) Wyvern




Sylvan: Green, Emerald, Crystal Dragons




*Not a dragon itself but strongly looks like. Besides it was mutated by chaos nexus, so it's not a "true" wyvern anymore.
Also, Sanctuary has Kirins (water spirits) and Dragon Eel but I think they shouldn't be in "Ashan Dragon Family".
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 31, 2014 09:28 AM
Edited by Stevie at 09:30, 31 Aug 2014.

Wyverns are not dragons afaik. And I'm sure the upgrades are only because of gameplay, not actual lore. Like there's no difference between shadow and black dragons.

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted August 31, 2014 09:34 AM

"Wyvern - Born in Mythical Age from giant lizards exposed to [Dragon] nexus of Air Magic, these beasts are greatly feared for their storm breath."

Pao-Kais are known as "degenerated" Dragons, and while it may be not true, they are in fact called that in Ashan.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 31, 2014 09:50 AM

wyverns have only legs, dragons have arms AND legs.

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