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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Creatures
Thread: Creatures This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Paiazza
Paiazza


Known Hero
لىخ ضل
posted September 09, 2014 04:53 PM

Creatures

Why the complex complicated complexity complication of creatures and the battlefield? Why can`t ubisoft make creatures and factions like in heroes 3? Simple units with great high-end graphics are way better and easier to make than this spining 3d battlefield and map. The creatures seem way to square-ish and 3d overpumped that even h3 creatures with that pixel graphics look better. The best way to acomplish this is by making the game appear 2d but being 3d(but no mouse turning for no needing excess polygons). In this way they could make all factions and alot more creatures, for all fans.

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Emin3m
Emin3m

Tavern Dweller
posted September 09, 2014 04:58 PM

Can't compare 2D and 3D graphics, H5 creatures were cool, way better than low-imagination design of the H3 creatures (humanoid design...)
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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted September 09, 2014 05:08 PM
Edited by Adrius at 17:12, 09 Sep 2014.

I dunno where this idea of 2D sprites being easier or cheaper comes from.

Sure drawing a character is less involved than making a 3D model, but once the latter is done animation is pretty straightforward... with 2D sprites though you're gonna have to make a completely new drawing for every frame of animation.
A really good looking 2D fighter like Blazblue has about 1000 handdrawn sprites per character... that **** takes time to draw.

It's a style choice not a budget or "easy" choice. Can make cheap 3D or cheap 2D, and the opposite.
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Paiazza
Paiazza


Known Hero
لىخ ضل
posted September 09, 2014 06:04 PM
Edited by Paiazza at 18:07, 09 Sep 2014.

2D fights seem move envolving and strategic, 3D fights catch the eye more but somehow become boring after a lot of fighths and end in autocombat because of boredom

similar effects for those who feel this and if played are also felt in disciples 1 & 2 compared to disciples 3 fights (of course both different than heroes and cannot be compared, but the vibe of the fight can)

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted September 09, 2014 06:31 PM
Edited by RMZ1989 at 18:31, 09 Sep 2014.

Paiazza said:
2D fights seem move envolving and strategic, 3D fights catch the eye more but somehow become boring after a lot of fighths and end in autocombat because of boredom

similar effects for those who feel this and if played are also felt in disciples 1 & 2 compared to disciples 3 fights (of course both different than heroes and cannot be compared, but the vibe of the fight can)

This doesn't make any sense to me. If fight is long and boring, then it has something to do with implementation, animations and game as a whole, and nothing with 3D.

I find fights in Age of Wonders 3 and Heroes 5(both 3D) a lot more enjoyable than in Heroes 3, where I find them quite dull. Even if Heroes 3 fights are faster.

And Disciples 3 is like completely new game compared to Disciples 2, 3D wasn't what killed the fun in Disciples 3, but complete change in the game mechanics, units design and graphics and on top of that combat was slower, not because it was 3D but because they have included combat movement like in Heroes games.
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Sal
Sal


Famous Hero
posted September 09, 2014 06:56 PM

The question is: is 3D adding any depth to the strategy? No.

Is the 3D confusing and luring the eyes more than 2D? I think yes. I remember is highly irritating to watch H5 battles on youtube, as people keep rotating the battle field until you get the nausea.

Is rotating it giving more ideas? Or showing details you can't see from regular angle view?

I think 3D is only there to match other games eye candies. Someone said in previous post that H5 creatures are more cool than H3, and also that H3 are low imagination designed. I think the opposite: is enough to look at town screens from H2-3 then at those from H7 to see how wrong the things "evolved".

Now Heroes looks like any other game out there.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted September 09, 2014 06:58 PM

Emin3m said:
H5 creatures were cool, way better than low-imagination design of the H3 creatures (humanoid design...)


completely and utterly disagree

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 09, 2014 07:00 PM
Edited by Storm-Giant at 19:01, 09 Sep 2014.

Emin3m said:
Can't compare 2D and 3D graphics, H5 creatures were cool, way better than low-imagination design of the H3 creatures (humanoid design...)

Well, HV dungeon isn't the best example of 'high-imagination design' so
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blizz
blizz


Known Hero
of temper grace
posted September 09, 2014 07:03 PM
Edited by blizz at 19:05, 09 Sep 2014.

I enjoyed the style in H5, creatures, map and especially town screens were all really well done and functional, H6 on the other hand just felt too cluttered and messy.

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Protolisk
Protolisk


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 09, 2014 07:04 PM

Sal said:
I think 3D is only there to match other games eye candies. Someone said in previous post that H5 creatures are more cool than H3, and also that H3 are low imagination designed. I think the opposite: is enough to look at town screens from H2-3 then at those from H7 to see how wrong the things "evolved".  


Although I agree with graphics not being essential to strategy, this particular quote is backwards. The H7 townscreens are so far the only thing in 2D! That doesn't help your argument much...

However, I can see your dislike of the unit design. Honestly, each game had a largely different art direction (except maybe H1 to H2, and now H6 to H7) and I can't say I particularly enjoy looking at H1/2's units for long. H3 is pretty good, but they are indeed way to many humanoid creatures (even the dragons stand upright.)

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted September 09, 2014 07:17 PM
Edited by RMZ1989 at 19:18, 09 Sep 2014.

You guys are discussing about opinions, something you shouldn't really do because it is pointless.

Sal said:
The question is: is 3D adding any depth to the strategy? No.

Is the 3D confusing and luring the eyes more than 2D? I think yes. I remember is highly irritating to watch H5 battles on youtube, as people keep rotating the battle field until you get the nausea.

Is rotating it giving more ideas? Or showing details you can't see from regular angle view?

I think 3D is only there to match other games eye candies. Someone said in previous post that H5 creatures are more cool than H3, and also that H3 are low imagination designed. I think the opposite: is enough to look at town screens from H2-3 then at those from H7 to see how wrong the things "evolved".

Now Heroes looks like any other game out there.

First of all, being able to rotate the battlefield is an option, you don't have to do it. If it irritates you, you should blame the people doing it, not the game...

Rotating helps to click on units from certain angles and attack them. You could do that in 2D sure, but in 2D creature size isn't really realistic because of the same reason. Goblin can't be 5 times smaller than Cyclop because you wouldn't be able to click on him in 2D. So to be able to do that, they would have to make the whole battlefield and hex grid bigger.

Last paragraph, H5 creatures being better than H3 ones or vica versa is just matter of taste, if anything the reason why a lot of people consider H5 units to be unimaginative is because they look like a rip-off from another games, Warhammer/Warcraft etc. and not because of 3D.
And strange that you said something about town screens, when majority of people that I've talked to said that H5 had the best town screens by far, and they were in 3D.
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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted September 09, 2014 08:28 PM

RMZ1989 said:
You guys are discussing about opinions, something you shouldn't really do because it is pointless.

Well that's just your opinion.
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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted September 09, 2014 09:53 PM

Adrius said:
RMZ1989 said:
You guys are discussing about opinions, something you shouldn't really do because it is pointless.

Well that's just your opinion.

Well played.

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NACHOOOO
NACHOOOO


Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
posted September 11, 2014 02:27 AM

2d? I loved heroes 3 as much as the next guy but we're not in the 90s anymore

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 11, 2014 02:05 PM
Edited by Galaad at 14:06, 11 Sep 2014.

NACHOOOO said:
2d? I loved heroes 3 as much as the next guy but we're not in the 90s anymore



You were saying ? There really are LOTS of modern 2D games with such detailed and amazing artwork, really too bad Heroes isn't one of them.

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Sal
Sal


Famous Hero
posted September 11, 2014 02:54 PM
Edited by Sal at 14:56, 11 Sep 2014.

Indeed, for me too the 3D creatures are in no way comparable with well designed 2D (well, H3 creatures are 3D too made, is just that they display in 2D environment). I don't care that in 3D tools as 3Ds max you can rotate them and see every pixel, while in battle regular view they look ridiculously unpolished and limp.

Compare:
 


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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 11, 2014 03:01 PM

absolutely, no contest. HoMM3 all the way. even HoMM2 is better by comparison.

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Protolisk
Protolisk


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 11, 2014 03:40 PM
Edited by Protolisk at 15:46, 11 Sep 2014.

Galaad said:
NACHOOOO said:
2d? I loved heroes 3 as much as the next guy but we're not in the 90s anymore



You were saying ? There really are LOTS of modern 2D games with such detailed and amazing artwork, really too bad Heroes isn't one of them.


Um...

Trine 2 maybe played in a 2D plane on the X and Y axes, but the graphics is undoubtedly 3D, So, not quite sure where you are going with this. I have seen countless modern 2D-graphic games that were at  most just being a homage to older games (retro art, pixel art and what have you), but not many that tried its own art direction and succeeded.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 11, 2014 04:13 PM
Edited by Galaad at 16:25, 11 Sep 2014.

Protolisk said:

Trine 2 maybe played in a 2D plane on the X and Y axes, but the graphics is undoubtedly 3D, So, not quite sure where you are going with this.
You're missing the point.
See Sal's comparison slightly above ? Now imagine the H3 screen is redrawn and polished as a Trine game. Just imagine the adventure maps, terrains, dwellings, castles, townscreens, creatures, spell effects etc you could make out of it.

Also :
Sal said:
H3 creatures are 3D too made, is just that they display in 2D environment


fred79 said:
absolutely, no contest. HoMM3 all the way. even HoMM2 is better by comparison.

+1 for me best H3 mod : Succession Wars ))

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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted September 11, 2014 06:09 PM

If you've got real style you mix 3D battlegrounds with 2D characters...

1000+ handdrawn HD sprites per character.

Japanese style might put ya off a bit but ya get the idea.
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