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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Inferno in homm7
Thread: Inferno in homm7 This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV
fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted September 15, 2014 01:19 PM

Being frail has always been part of their charm.
The fact that they were harder to creep with without losses coupled with the fact that their higher tier units somehow always ended up short comared to other castles (totally bonkers btw) made them in the end always the weakest castle on average.

Giving them extra attacking capabilities has sofar never been able to compensate them properly(extra luck,fire damage) because they could always be equalled or counterbalanced by opposing factions. What I think they really need besides extra base damage is higher speed and initiave and either no retaliation passives(or actives like shield bash, blind or fear) or spellcaster creatures which can provide such protection.

Simply giving them more hp will turn them into stronghold.

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NACHOOOO
NACHOOOO


Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
posted September 15, 2014 01:38 PM

fuChris said:
Being frail has always been part of their charm.
The fact that they were harder to creep with without losses coupled with the fact that their higher tier units somehow always ended up short comared to other castles (totally bonkers btw) made them in the end always the weakest castle on average.

Giving them extra attacking capabilities has sofar never been able to compensate them properly(extra luck,fire damage) because they could always be equalled or counterbalanced by opposing factions. What I think they really need besides extra base damage is higher speed and initiave and either no retaliation passives(or actives like shield bash, blind or fear) or spellcaster creatures which can provide such protection.

Simply giving them more hp will turn them into stronghold.


Absoloutely, if their extra numbers made losses acceptable then that certainly fits the way an inferno hero would feel about their troops. Meh, whatever, there's more of where they came from.
That still creates a problem in larger battles however as stack size is very important which is where my concern lies with that method. You lose too many troops at a time and your stack becomes useless. If you relied entirely on creature growth it would be very difficult to balance. High growth without losses and Inferno would be OP, not enough growth and unit losses would mean they'd be terrible. How do you ensure that stays even from game to game? Map to map?
Conversely it works well for necropolis as you can re-animate your undead army in quite a few different ways, so even after heavy losses a combination of decent growth plus reanimation keeps your army at a good competitive size. Even then Necro's always seem to get tweaked after initial release to maintain that balance.

You can make Inferno more survivable without turning them into Orcs by changing how they play as a faction. Most of your other points however I agree with and I mentioned some of them in my previous posts
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Sandman
Sandman


Known Hero
Fearsome Warrior
posted September 15, 2014 01:51 PM

I hope Inferno are in heroes 7 they are one of my favourate factions.
I liked the creature designs on heroes 5 (and to a certain extent 4) better than 3 and 6, however it is down to taste. I don't really care that much as long as Inferno are in i will be happy.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 15, 2014 01:52 PM

Stormcaller said:
Why eefreti? It's basically a djinn but with different skin. Floating red spirit definitely doesn't seems demonic to me. So he's down for me.

Different skin, different look, different abilities, different gameplay...yeah, the same

And Ubisoft can always give them a demonic touch in order to fit in Inferno lineup.
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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted September 15, 2014 02:15 PM

Is it actually so bad that the faction is not comletely balanced throughout the whole game? I never really got that argument. Comletely different factions should offer atleast somehow different gameplay. The way for example H6 Necropolis got balanced, by getting rid of proper necromancy, made them completely boring to play. And before that necro has always had good early-, bad mid- and again good endgame. AND NOBODY COMPLAINED. (I mean somebody always compained but y'know...whatever)

Inferno is a similar case as well. You take away what makes them unique and we get Haven_v.2.
There are several small ways which can help balance out the gameplay without healing spells or every unit having no-retaiation, but it doesn't have to be comletely balanced. Give them reinforcements in the form of gateing that stay after battle. Give them demon summoning like in H3. Make them immune to critical/lucky strikes (it shouldn't make a bigger difference then necro morale immunity). Give the heroes spell choices specially tailored for inferno(sacrifice, phantom force, mass blind). There are a lot of ways and none of them are any good without proper polishing which it never previously got.

The only otheroption isfor developers to go: "screw gameplay, lets give them some other boreing special and be done with it"

I wouldn't be surprised...

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Kurush
Kurush


Known Hero
posted September 15, 2014 02:32 PM

I'd like to see the Thrall of Hatred as an elite who deals passive damage for units dying, in one way or another.

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NACHOOOO
NACHOOOO


Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
posted September 17, 2014 12:50 PM

fuChris said:
Is it actually so bad that the faction is not comletely balanced throughout the whole game? I never really got that argument. Comletely different factions should offer atleast somehow different gameplay. The way for example H6 Necropolis got balanced, by getting rid of proper necromancy, made them completely boring to play. And before that necro has always had good early-, bad mid- and again good endgame. AND NOBODY COMPLAINED. (I mean somebody always compained but y'know...whatever)

Inferno is a similar case as well. You take away what makes them unique and we get Haven_v.2.
There are several small ways which can help balance out the gameplay without healing spells or every unit having no-retaiation, but it doesn't have to be comletely balanced. Give them reinforcements in the form of gateing that stay after battle. Give them demon summoning like in H3. Make them immune to critical/lucky strikes (it shouldn't make a bigger difference then necro morale immunity). Give the heroes spell choices specially tailored for inferno(sacrifice, phantom force, mass blind). There are a lot of ways and none of them are any good without proper polishing which it never previously got.

The only otheroption isfor developers to go: "screw gameplay, lets give them some other boreing special and be done with it"

I wouldn't be surprised...


I can accept points in the game where certain factions are better than others.... this allows for different gameplay styles. However, if they are completely unbalanced then you end up with almost unplayable factions like H6 Inferno. Try as I might I cannot stand playing with that faction. That's not how I want it to be but it's the key example to why balance is extremely important.
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Magic Bird, only a working
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Stormcaller
Stormcaller


Famous Hero
posted September 17, 2014 04:27 PM
Edited by Stormcaller at 16:29, 17 Sep 2014.

Inferno is a swarm race, that much I agree with. They're much like orcs/orks from warhammer 40k, sacrificing pretty much everything in favour of powerful assault.

Although I always wondered why is luck exactly Inferno's specialty? Does this have some sort of lore connection or is it just a random decision to give inferno something to have other than assault?

Cause it certainly never made sense to me. In my opinion, Gating needs a tweak, as well as abilities of creatures.

Make Destructive fire magic Inferno's speciality so whenever it's cast by an inferno it gains boost according to level, regardless of Inferno's global ability.

Also, I don't think Giving Inferno higher speed and initiative is the way to go, that would just make them more like elves, while adding Hp more like Orcs.


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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 17, 2014 04:39 PM

Their progenitor is the dragon God of chaos That chaos so happens to favour them.
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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted September 17, 2014 08:53 PM

Inferno is great! I like Kha-Beleth(I think he will act as main character as we see him as Demon Sovereign in Shade of Darkness - Dungeon Camapign). For me units should:

Core:
Maniacs or Imps that act as cannon fodder(or any small demonic little beast)
Succubus - back of Infernal Chain would be great! Of course infernal units are immune of Infernal Chain.
Cerberrus - Should back as 3-headed dog. Also demonic dog should be big and act role in battle like in H3/H5. His ability should remain(all around attack, no retaliation) and fire breath of H5 alternative.
Elite:
Nightmare - just like in H5
Juggernauts - powerful beats who could deal huge damage with blood rage against any enemy.
Breader - 2nd shooter is needed in Inferno army
Champion:
Pit lord- H6 like or Azkaal(he looks and fight like Pit lord)
Arch Devil - The most powerful demonic unit. Stats should be equal to Angels and they could teleport on any battle side without problem (H3 - like).  

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Stormcaller
Stormcaller


Famous Hero
posted September 17, 2014 09:13 PM

Why no one likes tormentors? They look exactly like a demon should, and have cool abilities. Why the hell would you want flaming horses instead them?

Jesus, i get the nostalgia but cmon, we can't have same units all the time.
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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted September 17, 2014 10:16 PM
Edited by cleglaw at 22:18, 17 Sep 2014.

i love demons, i love D&D, i love diablo series, i love H.P.lovecraft and i am a big fan of horror games...

as you might guess, inferno is one my favourite factions.

i think H6 inferno design(in mean of artistic style & architecture) was the best of the whole series. sadly, creatures were pretty hard to play with and they lacked so many things other factions have.

i want some kind of new mechanic and support in inferno!

what do i mean by support? well of course im not talking about healing powers as we are used to see in haven.

i have so many suggestions to this, here we go with my first suggestion:




feast over sanity: more the creatures lose sanity, more the reality changes. madness shifts reality and demons of sheogh pass through it.

every attack decreases morale, and every hit by inferno creatures spawns new demons(works like heal, if you and enemy has low nomber of creatures, this will only cause to heal you rather than heal too much to ressurect). lower morale the target has, higher it causes to call demons after getting hit. this effect will occur in the starting phase of every turn. after unlocking and powerful skill-ability this may cause to happen it instantly.

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lokdron
lokdron


Famous Hero
posted September 17, 2014 10:52 PM

cleglaw said:
i love demons, i love D&D, i love diablo series, i love H.P.lovecraft and i am a big fan of horror games...

as you might guess, inferno is one my favourite factions.

i think H6 inferno design(in mean of artistic style & architecture) was the best of the whole series. sadly, creatures were pretty hard to play with and they lacked so many things other factions have.

i want some kind of new mechanic and support in inferno!

what do i mean by support? well of course im not talking about healing powers as we are used to see in haven.

i have so many suggestions to this, here we go with my first suggestion:




feast over sanity: more the creatures lose sanity, more the reality changes. madness shifts reality and demons of sheogh pass through it.

every attack decreases morale, and every hit by inferno creatures spawns new demons(works like heal, if you and enemy has low nomber of creatures, this will only cause to heal you rather than heal too much to ressurect). lower morale the target has, higher it causes to call demons after getting hit. this effect will occur in the starting phase of every turn. after unlocking and powerful skill-ability this may cause to happen it instantly.



Yeah as a fan of DnD I view inferno as a mix of devils and Demons since you have those who like wrecking stuff and those who are charismatic and are great at getting people to sell their souls. Like tears and blood path in H6. Tears was a more devil route while blood was more demonic.

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