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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: What do you think of the MMH7 skill system insofar?
Thread: What do you think of the MMH7 skill system insofar? This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 20, 2015 12:49 PM

Can someone give an example where core mechanics of the game were changed in expansion?
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 20, 2015 12:54 PM

I don't really like what you're insinuating. Not that it's accurate to begin with.
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Aionb
Aionb


Known Hero
posted April 20, 2015 12:59 PM
Edited by Aionb at 12:59, 20 Apr 2015.

Like it or not, he has a point. However, H5 TotE did bring very important changes but I wouldn't call them changes to the "core mechanics".

Regarding the system, I'm not voting for now, even if my general feel is of mixed feelings, combined with dislike.
Green_Drag said it pretty well: "We should be free to pick our main skills and formulate our own strategies from a pool of skills rather than picking from a puddle of classes and hoping one fits to our likings."

Not to mention the apparent uselessness of the random skills option, which bothers me a lot.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 20, 2015 12:59 PM
Edited by Galaad at 13:01, 20 Apr 2015.

@Stevie

Of course Salamandre is right, core mechanics are not changed in expansions. As you said yourself in the discussion thread, the whole skill system is based on non-random (hello heroes 6 lol), thus preventing any kind of healthy fixing. I am telling you, people will still play Heroes III and V after VII is out.
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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted April 20, 2015 01:06 PM

Galaad said:
I am telling you, people will still play Heroes III and V after VII is out.


I think that that was never in question.

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Dies_Irae
Dies_Irae


Supreme Hero
Official spokesbirb
posted April 20, 2015 01:09 PM

frostymuaddib said:
Galaad said:
I am telling you, people will still play Heroes III and V after VII is out.


I think that that was never in question.


I don't know why that is even relevant. I too still play III and V if I want to. If H7 comes out it doesn't mean it will render all the others obsolete . Of course it will be my main focus, but I'd be damned if I forgot about 6, 5, 4, and 3.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted April 20, 2015 01:14 PM

Heroes 3 was the latest Heroes game I played, fairly recently (less than a month ago). I played through the vanilla campaigns on Heroes 6 twice, the expansion as well as the two DLC maps (Crag & Sandro) only once. I played through Heroes 5 several times, but it's been quite a while since I ever touched it.

While I still hope that Heroes 7 is going to blow me away, I rather think it will be only marginally better than Heroes 6 - and therefore, Heroes 3 will likely remain the Heroes title to return to, for the time being.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 20, 2015 01:33 PM

Well, Heroes III skills system is far from being perfect; if other aspects are okay, doesn't matter so much.

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted April 20, 2015 01:52 PM
Edited by Avonu at 13:55, 20 Apr 2015.

Limbic-Jaelle said:
Hey fellas,

We are currently preparing a statement regarding the skillwheel mechanism. Could you please share with us your main questions (in bullet points) regarding this Topics, so we can integrate them in the feedback of our gamedesigners?


I have many questions but I think this is the one the most important for me now, as we know that nothing important will be changed:

*Will there be artifacts with skill/ability on them? Like Battlegrab of Anduran in HoMM 2, which gave the player free Expert Leadership AND Expert Luck AND Town Gate spell? Or like some artifacts from Heres 6 with for example give the hero Pathfinding ability?
Will hero be able to learn skill that way - for example if he find and equip Book of Dark Magic, he would cast unavailable normal to him spells (without skill abilities/perks of course)?
Or we will be cursed to have skills only from hero class skillwheel?
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the_green_drag
the_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted April 20, 2015 02:18 PM
Edited by the_green_drag at 14:19, 20 Apr 2015.

Limbic-Jaelle said:
Hey fellas,

We are currently preparing a statement regarding the skillwheel mechanism. Could you please share with us your main questions (in bullet points) regarding this Topics, so we can integrate them in the feedback of our gamedesigners.


Personally I don't see any point in the classes other than to restrict the player from leveling certain skills. I think it's ridiculous to prevent heroes from learning vital skills like defense and offense. Even magic heroes benefit from those skills. The might heroes are really lacking. The classic might build with skills like offense and defense should be available for all factions. More variety of skills within the classes (if you must keep them.) we have seen that many are very similar.

Sorry it's not in the form of a question.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted April 20, 2015 03:18 PM

Stevie said:
Limbic-Jaelle said:
Important information: In this state of the game, there will be no changes in the system and the mechanics.



I'm just... speechless... All that feedback for nothing.

You thought at this stage they'd change the skill system for the vanilla game? Stevie pls.

We can only hope that they would be willing to make changes to it with the expansion(s).
Salamandre said:
Can someone give an example where core mechanics of the game were changed in expansion?

H5 TotE reworked the Skill System. It's something within the scope of H7 too I think.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 20, 2015 03:21 PM

Storm-Giant said:
H5 TotE reworked the Skill System

Uh, my mistake then, since I didn't play H5 before TotE.

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted April 20, 2015 03:34 PM

Honestly, I haven't really looked into it too much.  That said, I will buy the game regardless, so I will just have to deal with the new system.  

On a more optimistic note, it can't possibly be worse than Heroes 6's snore-fest of a skill tree.
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Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted April 20, 2015 03:39 PM

Limbic-Jaelle said:
Hey fellas,

We are currently preparing a statement regarding the skillwheel mechanism. Could you please share with us your main questions (in bullet points) regarding this Topics, so we can integrate them in the feedback of our gamedesigners.


- Will there be racial perks outside of the racial skill?
- Will the random system use these non-random skillwheels, or will you be able to fill up your skillwheel with skills from the total skill pool?
- Will there be starting skills and will these differ per hero or per class?

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Protolisk
Protolisk


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 20, 2015 03:40 PM
Edited by Protolisk at 15:41, 20 Apr 2015.

Galaad said:
Storm-Giant said:
H5 TotE reworked the Skill System

Uh, my mistake then, since I didn't play H5 before TotE.


It was very simplified before TotE. At best, for a single faction, there was only 5 abilities for a single skill. If you didn't choose a specific basic ability, then you were locked out from the expert perk right off the bat, as there usually was only one path to reach the sole expert perk. There were many more differences in faction back then, though. The fact that so many traits exist for Master of Fire was because each faction tended to have their own expert or advanced perk. TotE summed up all of them together, allowing each faction to access most of the abilities across all factions. It was assembled like this. As you can see, a single hero type didn't have a whole lot to go off of per each skill.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted April 20, 2015 04:27 PM

Protolisk said:
Galaad said:
Storm-Giant said:
H5 TotE reworked the Skill System

Uh, my mistake then, since I didn't play H5 before TotE.


It was very simplified before TotE. At best, for a single faction, there was only 5 abilities for a single skill. If you didn't choose a specific basic ability, then you were locked out from the expert perk right off the bat, as there usually was only one path to reach the sole expert perk. There were many more differences in faction back then, though. The fact that so many traits exist for Master of Fire was because each faction tended to have their own expert or advanced perk. TotE summed up all of them together, allowing each faction to access most of the abilities across all factions. It was assembled like this. As you can see, a single hero type didn't have a whole lot to go off of per each skill.


I don't think this is true. Since H5 ToE skill system was still the same i it's core. The idea was the same it was only reworked and expanded, often in a very simple way of "Make a action unique perk accessible to more factions". The only CORE mechanic that ha EVER seen a mid-game-life rework was in H5, but it was the necromancy system. This was something new. something unique and changed the gameplay of the faction a lot..
The fact that in the expansion new skills were added and it was easier to get the "Ultimate" was not a drastic change in the core mechanics. It was a big change, similar to the addition of Alt. upgrades, but nothing that important
General mechanics usually get added and expanded then reworked in this series. Not reworked. Not saying that H7 does not have to be the pioneer in this point.

In the end... Games like H3-5-2 or even 4 are still played thanks to one thing: They managed to create their own dedicated audience. Each of the games, even if more or less sharing at least some features, managed to create a dedicated player base to be kept alive. Even if the differences are sometimes rather small, still each title created something unique. H2 in it's free non linear approach weirdly working in its general disbalance. H3 in its simplistic but yet complex and a bit more streamlined approach, H4 in its experimental approach to mechanics, H5 in multiplayer options and general variety.
The true legacy of H7 will not be written by individual mechanics and/or content, bu with its ability to attract player, both old and new, and its ability to create a generation of its own.

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donatazz
donatazz


Adventuring Hero
posted April 20, 2015 04:31 PM

Stevie said:
I will accept this decision for the vanilla as it was probably made with budget and time constraints in mind and I'm not planning to be unreasonable on that. What I will not accept, however, is no skill system redesign whatsoever with the first expansion that comes out. By the time an expansion would happen, you'd have all the time, the money and the feedback in the world to get things straight once and for all.


you seriously don't know anything about game design do you? The skill system is about 1/4 of the game, and to re-balanace it all as well as re-work it would require money and time, and at this point it would drain the game budget event further and push the release date.

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donatazz
donatazz


Adventuring Hero
posted April 20, 2015 04:40 PM

Limbic-Jaelle said:
Hey fellas,
Thanks for your help  and passion!
Cheers, Limbic-Jaelle




I can't say for other loud-mouths, but I as well as some people like it. It is easy t udnerstand and grasp for new players, as well as master it for more experienced players. It is like the old saying goes, the game is not a pot of gold to please us all.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 20, 2015 04:43 PM

Dies_Irae said:
I don't know why that is even relevant.

One word buddy
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Dies_Irae
Dies_Irae


Supreme Hero
Official spokesbirb
posted April 20, 2015 05:06 PM

Galaad said:
Dies_Irae said:
I don't know why that is even relevant.

One word buddy


Fair enough. I find H6 replayable too, you know .
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