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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Flanking system and hexagons.
Thread: Flanking system and hexagons. This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
the_green_drag
the_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted May 12, 2015 11:50 PM

Unfortunately you cannot. I'd prefer to though.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 13, 2015 08:46 AM

the_green_drag said:
I like the flanking in h7 to be honest, it gives some more to think about in battles. I like how they implemented it too. You  kind of have to look at the feet of the unit to see which direction it's facing. Sometimes it's facing diagonally since you can hit corner to corner so the backstabbing and flanking spacings shift.

It brings some extra strategy for might heroes especially. This is the kind of improvements I like for them rather than warcries
Are you kidding? Extra STRATEGY? You don't have to look at anything except the tooltip when you mouse over the unit you want to attack. So you just see, ok if I attack from there it's regular attack, if I attack from there (side) it's half-flanking for +X%, and if I attack from there it's full-flanking for +Y%.
There is no strategy involved whatsoever, because there are no penalties for "overreaching" or opportunity retaliation or zone of control or control over facing - or even control over the path your unit moves to the desired space.
It simply translates into a damage plus the more mobile a unit is.

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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted May 13, 2015 09:29 AM
Edited by Zombi_Wizzard at 09:30, 13 May 2015.

Oh ... but ... what if your unit does not have movement to go around? Or how about it's next to obstacle or another enemy unit, thus blocking it from falnking? And how about if you don't want to attack that particular unit, but can't flank others? How about if you don't want your unit to be exposed to counter flanking?

It DOES bring strategy. You WANT to flank enemy units, but you are PREVENTING enemy to flank yours at the same time.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 13, 2015 10:12 AM
Edited by JollyJoker at 10:13, 13 May 2015.

Zombi_Wizzard said:
Oh ... but ... what if your unit does not have movement to go around?
That's what I said:
Quote:
It simply translates into a damage plus the more mobile a unit is.
Quote:
Or how about it's next to obstacle or another enemy unit, thus blocking it from falnking?
Well, you either CAN flank or you can't - where's the strategy there. Also, an obstacle or another unit can't stop you from flanking. There are enough squares to flank.
Quote:
And how about if you don't want to attack that particular unit, but can't flank others?
Look, flanking means, you do more damage. Period. The attacked unit still retaliates, if eligible. So it's no different from the usual game. If you can attack 2 or even more units, you look at the unit you that's best for you to attack. Flanking is tactically important only insofar as it lets you do more damage, but if that "more" is irrelevant, flanking is irrelevant as well.
Quote:
How about if you don't want your unit to be exposed to counter flanking?
Remember, flanking is just a damage bonus, and the relatively high movement allowance of units in combination with the relatively small BF won't make that question even viable; you have units that you want to avoid being hit at all (shooters) and you have units you want to hit with. If you are in a non-trivial fight, as soon as melee combat starts (that is, a unit attacks an enemy unit in melee), you go into all-out-battling mode, and then it's a question of doing as much damage as fast as possible, since dead units don't flank.

Quote:
It DOES bring strategy. You WANT to flank enemy units, but you are PREVENTING enemy to flank yours at the same time.
That is the theory. In practise, however, if you think about it, there are only two ways to act accordingly: 1) turtling; no difference to how that works. Tactics, turtle, shoot the enemy, attack when contact is unavoidable; 2) Gain advantage in mobility; no difference to how that works. You know, have better initiative, then assault with everything - except that in this case movement allowance plays a role as well.
That, however, would only be important, if there were low-init melee units with a lot of movement points and high-init melee units with very few movement points, and especially the last one doesn't make a lot of sense: a unit with small range (which is what MA translates to) can't make good use of high init.
In the end, there is no way to prevent a flyer to flank - except magic, but that's nothing new either.

In theory you are right, insofar, that flanking should initiate a secondary battle about bonus damage, but MMH7 is lacking the combat system for that.

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icefield
icefield


Adventuring Hero
posted May 14, 2015 08:30 PM

Flanking makes sense if it is a comparatively rare opportunity, which either needs planning to become possible, or can usually be avoided by carefully placing your units.  In that case, it would clearly add to tactics.

As proposed, it will be possible for more than 50% of all attacks, no matter how units are placed.  At least, after units have crossed sides.  It can be countered by turtling, but this is viable tactics anyway, nothing new.

So, as JJ said, it's likely rather a nuisance than an improvement to battle tactics.

I'd say maybe keep it, but tone down to say -1 reduction in defense of the attacked unit.  So one may use it to advantage, but doesn't need to all the time.  I hope this will become an issue to beta testers.

(Regarding the OP's poll: I don't care about squares or hexagons.)

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theSilent
theSilent

Tavern Dweller
posted May 04, 2020 10:34 AM

PandaTar said:
This is how I was envisioning flanking for Hexagon tiles:

The image.




The image is gone. Can you post the image again?
____________

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted May 04, 2020 10:34 AM
Edited by FirePaladin at 10:36, 04 May 2020.

theSilent said:
PandaTar said:
This is how I was envisioning flanking for Hexagon tiles:

The image.




The image is gone. Can you post the image again?


Copy imagine link and enter it into webarchive.
It's gonna show you the archived version of the image, which of course is archived if the site it was uploaded o is down.

Edit: Crap, we're unlucky. Usually, 80% of the dead images are available through webarchive, but this doesn't seem to.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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