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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 18, 2016 03:49 PM |
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Also good to mention: the knight class can be used for testing any terrain, since it should get exactly all the penalties according to the
table, this also seems to apply to all classes with a new ID.
But since IDs and ingame names do not always match I should tell you: elementalist can always be used to test sand, and flamekeeper can always be used to test snow. I verified they get the penalties.
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Deflaktor
Responsible
Known Hero
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posted May 18, 2016 04:00 PM |
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I set the gras step cost from 100 to 1. The path finder behaves really interesting now:
So yeah, I found most values. Now comes some heavy testing. (Does the AI also use these values? Is it affected by every hero the same? ...)
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 18, 2016 04:12 PM |
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As far as I know all heroes and AI are affected the same way and the AI will adjust automatically. In defaultstats.xdb you can actually set the default hero movement (2500) to any value, I already tried 2800 and nothing weird happened.
I think the easiest way to test quickly is use an RMG map since it always give you the desired terrain type if you force the player factions! (and not use an underground) H55 makes it a lot easier since the remaining movement points of the hero can be checked in the Town management window at any time.
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Deflaktor
Responsible
Known Hero
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posted May 18, 2016 04:22 PM |
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Dont worry, Cheat Engine tells me how many movement points my hero has left.
The thing is, Im worried about the standard movement cost value. It may be defined as a constant and reused many times in the code. E.g. the path finder may use it, the ai may use it to estimate distances to enemy heroes and who knows what part of the code also might use it. The compiler often optimizes such code and scatters constant values all over the exe file. If this happens it is impossible to track down each and every use of the same constant and change it everywhere the same. This is why the level cap patch is so hard to make.
The other values are not so critical since they are used inside a function and it is a lot less likely that they are used elsewhere.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 18, 2016 04:27 PM |
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I'm not sure that is something to worry about because the pathfinder and tracker specialties make it possible for heroes to have almost every amount of movement between ~(2500-5000) so I think the code must have been written to adapt to that automatically.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 18, 2016 04:37 PM |
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By the way I don't think I need to change the grass value to come up with a reasonable solution for the balance issue, Haven for example has already more movement in his own area because of the stables, but i can tune the stables down if other things go up.
I think lowering Snow and Sand to 25% would basically solve the most pressing issues.
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Deflaktor
Responsible
Known Hero
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posted May 18, 2016 06:02 PM |
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Okay so I found the following values:
- Movement cost for homeland of the hero (100)
- The movement cost for roads (75)
- The movement cost penalty for dirt, lava, taiga and subterran (25)
- The movement cost penalty for sand and snow (50)
- Factor to penalty for hero pathfinding perk (0.5)
- Hero speciality "Tracker" movement point penalty per level factor (0.01 contrary to the fan manual)
- Standard movement cost (100)
- Ship movement cost (100)
- Factor for diagonal movement (1.41)
Creating the yml file right now.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 18, 2016 06:32 PM |
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Wonderful! This homeland value might be very useful. Pathfinding, great find! I think there was also a tracker value in defaultstats, but I guess that one isn't used then.
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Deflaktor
Responsible
Known Hero
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posted May 18, 2016 07:59 PM |
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Here it is: movement.yml
I haven't tested it though and now I got no time for that :/ nvm got some time
EDIT: Tested it. It seems to work. Also the speciality percentage value behaves a little bit different. The formula for it is:
penalty = penalty * (1 - specialityTracker*(2*heroLevel-1))
so it is indeed kinda 2% per hero level, but also not exactly. At level 10 the actual penalty is 81% of the real penalty.
If you change the value from 0.01 to 0.02, the hero will actually get bonus movement points on snow at level 30:
penalty = 50 * (1 - 0.02 * (2*30-1) ) = -9
And thus the movement cost on snow would be 100 + (-9) = 91
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 18, 2016 10:36 PM |
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Deflaktor
Responsible
Known Hero
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posted May 19, 2016 01:48 AM |
bonus applied by Galaad on 02 Sep 2017. |
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magnomagus said:
On a side note: I have also noticed any activity (visit/combat/pickup) costs 100 points.
An idea just popped in my head. What if we change that value to 0 for combat? Would that have an impact on balance? Would you want to change it? Because that would fix the issue with PEST that you lose movement points when attacking an enemy hero while he is not in adventure screen.
Current Wishlist:
- mini artifacts initiative to 0.75 (have disassembled it, patch follows maybe in a few weeks)
- tower and moat damage
- archmage energy channel ability
- scripting globally activated
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted May 19, 2016 08:38 AM |
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 19, 2016 09:01 AM |
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Quote: Give that man a red star for all those great improvements
+1
@Deflaktor: Totally agree with the wishlist!, the modifiers for the other mini-artifacts are also welcome if you stumble upon them.
For combat cost I first have to ask an important question, if a hero in town screen is hit in PEST does it count as 'losing the combat', because otherwise it should be possible for the hero to refill its movement bar with the warpath ability? and also refill mana and movement with some artifacts from H55.
Obviously it will have some impact on balance, heroes will have some more movement on avg and snatch will be a little less interesting.
This can be handled with a script very easily by the way.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 19, 2016 10:33 AM |
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Quote: What if we change that value to 0 for combat?
On second thought, since this also cuts down on realism it would not be fair to the majority of the community that plays the game in singleplayer/hotseat. A better idea would be to have it activated optionally in the H55-Settings file for PEST users.
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lotihoti
Famous Hero
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posted May 19, 2016 10:50 AM |
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Another wish (personally) would be to set incomes of mines, capitols to a different value...
Idea behind it:
To be able to build creatures you needa specific ressource. Right now its impossible to set - as example familiars - the cost to 1 ore (just an example) and some gold. Every creature would need 1 ore so you basically need 40 ore for 1 week.
With this offsets mines and late game ressource handling would come to another level... But thats just a personal thought... Would love if you would find this offsets.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 19, 2016 11:27 AM |
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lotihoti
Famous Hero
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posted May 19, 2016 11:49 AM |
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Edited by lotihoti at 12:01, 19 May 2016.
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Possible with scripts - yes... But there are allready many scripts running and to change a value of an existing would be much more effective for it...
Edit:
Depending on map level isnt necessary: Bigger maps means more towns, means more troops, means more ressources to spend...
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted May 19, 2016 11:40 PM |
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lotihoti
Famous Hero
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posted May 20, 2016 10:33 AM |
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Moat dmg is in a xdb... but if you change it nothing is going to happen... Allready tested that
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xtek
Hired Hero
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posted May 25, 2016 04:57 PM |
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I read the whole thread. I can see that level cap is a huge hassle..
Still if you ever find the time to do it, please do. We really need those extra levels
I wanted to propose setting level 40 exp requirement to something like 800k, and than squeezing in those extra few levels so that level 50 requires 1,215,939,194 exp, but after reading everything here, I realize that is even more of a hassle and just plain bad because of 256x256 maps.. so yeah, I won`t
Still, I hope we will see the cap change happen someday
p.s. amazing work both Deflaktor and magnomagus
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