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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 26, 2015 04:25 PM |
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War of Might and Magic
Due to the fact that the war between Enroth Party, Ashan Party and from time to time, though usually seldom, Third Party (neutrals), has been fought for some time, and it appears that it will not stop as long as Ubi holds the IP rights of the Heroes/M&M franchise, I would like to ask the Almighty Forces of this forum to create a separate forum (like there is a separate forum for H1-H3, H4, H5, etc.) for this type of discussions, i.e. the discussions (a.k.a. the eternal conflict or what's older chicken or the egg?), where the members can talk whose universe is better (NWC's or Ubi's) in "peace" without affecting the rest of community. Here are the following reasons:
1) The hardcore fans of the mentioned worlds will never change their opinion. Thus, such discussions will reappear from time to time when Ubi posts something new, and because neither side will give up on their beliefs, every single discussion will lead to impasse. However, do bear in mind that as long as Ubi holds the IP rights these discussions will never stop.
2) By reaching an impasse, things will get nasty, personal, and aggressive, up to a point that it is unbearable, even though there are people who like to watch a show or fiasco as the people are fighting. [Popcorns to go are here]
3) Such discussions have already took a toil on a community. They often include pure bashing of the opposite world or are simply not interesting to many members. As a consequence some members have left HC because every discussion sooner or later ends with the focus on Enroth vs. Ashan (or Erwan hate...).
4) By creating a new forum, Enroth/NWC vs. Ashan/Ubi discussions can be freely led without involving the rest of community who are sick of the topic. It will also provide a space for other topics and discussions to resurface once again.
5) By directing NWC vs. Ubi discussion to this new forum, hopefully the old members who have disappeared (WO) will return and will continue in their contribution to the HC, since the thing that drove them has been contained in another forum.
I propose the following name of the forum:
War of Might and Magic
NWC vs. Ubi talk
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LizardWarrior 
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted June 26, 2015 06:11 PM |
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There's an whole site dedicated to that 
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted June 26, 2015 07:07 PM |
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Sleeping_Sun said:
2) By reaching an impasse, things will get nasty, personal, and aggressive, up to a point that it is unbearable, even though there are people who like to watch a show or fiasco as the people are fighting. [Popcorns to go are here]
3) Such discussions have already took a toil on a community. They often include pure bashing of the opposite world or are simply not interesting to many members. As a consequence some members have left HC because every discussion sooner or later ends with the focus on Enroth vs. Ashan (or Erwan hate...).
Nah. In my world people can disagree with each other and still act in a civilized manner. If anything - the NWC vs Ubi debate should probably increase activity in the community, not the other way around.
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 26, 2015 07:34 PM |
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AnkVaati said:
Nah. In my world people can disagree with each other and still act in a civilized manner. If anything - the NWC vs Ubi debate should probably increase activity in the community, not the other way around.
I agree. Besides, there is dedicated threads to discuss the issue. People bashing on each others because they can't be civil enough is not related to the debate.
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 26, 2015 09:19 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
There's an whole site dedicated to that
Yes, a whole site out of HC, but that is not the problem of HC. Having such peculiar discussions here at the HC is, hence my plea.
AnkVaati said:
Nah. In my world people can disagree with each other and still act in a civilized manner. If anything - the NWC vs Ubi debate should probably increase activity in the community, not the other way around.
You expect a progress when beating a dead horse? Seriously? A repetition that is happening every once in a while can only annoy people. Opening the same fronts over and over again cannot bring any progress, but only stagnation. Why? Because, as I already said, the hardcore fans of Ashan will not change hardcore fans of Enroth, and vice versa. Those in the middle ground may oscillate between the two poles, but they are not the one who invoke such debates.
Galaad said:
I agree. Besides, there is dedicated threads to discuss the issue. People bashing on each others because they can't be civil enough is not related to the debate.
Where are these threads dedicated for these issues? You mean first that, in this case, H7 discussion thread is polluted with such discussion, and then some special thread is opened, after some time. Thus, such discussion starts in one thread and is spread by creating new threads on that topic. That is why I argue that there should be a separate forum for such topics and discussion. Poking the H7 discussion with the same topic is problematic, and hugely off topic. H7 discussion thread is for discussing H7, not for the debate Ashan vs. Enroth. Also, the bashing you mention Galaad, is not related to the debate but it still happens, and that doesn't give any contribution to the discussion but only damages the thread, and annoys people.
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted June 26, 2015 09:32 PM |
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Sleeping_Sun said:
Also, the bashing you mention Galaad, is not related to the debate but it still happens, and that doesn't give any contribution to the discussion but only damages the thread, and annoys people.
I think their bashing and stuff might have something to do with the hardcore-Ashan bunch being very young, sometimes under the age of 15. Don't worry though. We adults can handle this.
Also I must say, I don't think it has gone out of control. It's nowhere near that IMHO. Some people have strong feelings, but that's about it.
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 26, 2015 09:36 PM |
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AnkVaati said:
I think their bashing and stuff might have something to do with the hardcore-Ashan bunch being very young, sometimes under the age of 15. Don't worry though. We adults can handle this.
Also I must say, I don't think it has gone out of control. It's nowhere near that IMHO. Some people have strong feelings, but that's about it.
Not sure if the age is totally to be blamed. Also, you just tackled Ashan basers, but what about hardcore-Enroth bashers? Let's objectively observe both groups, without bias.
But, does it need to escalate out of control so that some thing would be done? Do we really want more members to leave HC before anything is done? Is such futile discussion worth our quality members? I do not think so!
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted June 26, 2015 09:39 PM |
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Edited by AnkVaati at 21:39, 26 Jun 2015.
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Sleeping_Sun said:
AnkVaati said:
I think their bashing and stuff might have something to do with the hardcore-Ashan bunch being very young, sometimes under the age of 15. Don't worry though. We adults can handle this.
Also I must say, I don't think it has gone out of control. It's nowhere near that IMHO. Some people have strong feelings, but that's about it.
Not sure if the age is totally to be blamed. But, does it need to escalate out of control so that some thing would be done? Do we really want more members to leave HC before anything is done? Is such futile discussion worth our quality members? I do not think so!
Of course not. But how many old members are we talking about? 3? What is their reason for not being active anymore? People tend to go on vacation on summers, you know.
If people want to discuss other things, there is nothing to prevent them from doing so.
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 26, 2015 09:41 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 21:43, 26 Jun 2015.
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Dude, you are asking the admin to create a special board for discussing a topic which is about the universes of the series.
I agree is annoying when people start bickering each other, but think a minute about your request: what should we do when, in example, a reveal tells us Grim Rider is a Vampire, go discuss it in an unrelated board, outside of Heroes 7 forum, while we are discussing Heroes 7?
No, as said, what is annoying depends on the attitude of members, not the subject by itself.
Also, you keep saying people are being driven away, while HC has never been that active in such a long time, I mean, the discussion thread is +900 pages and we have +200 topics there.
As for the threads, HERE, opened in September.
And the other one in the Altar.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted June 26, 2015 09:44 PM |
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it's much poorer without WO though 
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 26, 2015 09:44 PM |
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AnkVaati said:
Of course not. But how many old members are we talking about? 3? What is their reason for not being active anymore? People tend to go on vacation on summers, you know.
If people want to discuss other things, there is nothing to prevent them from doing so.
Vacation is one thing, another is when someone is repulsed by the same discussions, bashing, etc. I do not the precise amount of people who left, after all I do not stalk 10,461 people of HC, nor I can spare enough time to be ever present here at HC.
About stopping the discussion, you are wrong. If the same topic is invoked over and over, the other discussion simply dies away, as every side wants to prove their point, or to mock the other side.
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 26, 2015 09:45 PM |
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He'll be back don't worry, I've seen him lurking lately.
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 26, 2015 09:51 PM |
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Galaad said:
Dude, you are asking the admin to create a special board for discussing a topic which is about the universes of the series.
I agree is annoying when people start bickering each other, but think a minute about your request: what should we do when, in example, a reveal tells us Grim Rider is a Vampire, go discuss it in an unrelated board, outside of Heroes 7 forum, while we are discussing Heroes 7?
No, as said, what is annoying depends on the attitude of members, not the subject by itself.
Also, you keep saying people are being driven away, while HC has never been that active in such a long time, I mean, the discussion thread is +900 pages and we have +200 topics there.
As for the threads, HERE, opened in September.
And the other one in the Altar.
I know what I am asking. But you haven't read what I said previously. H7 discussion is about H7, nothing wrong there, just subdue Ashan vs. Enroth discussion whenever possible, but that has not been the case so far.
About the +900 discussion thread... remove all unnecessary and off topic discussion, and all the bashing, and see what is left. Yes, there is discussion flowering, I agree, but it is mainly done by the more or less the same people, not including some new members that joined the forum. Count all participant in relation to 10 000 people and then talk about the activity of the WHOLE community...
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 26, 2015 10:01 PM |
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Well, for starters, not the WHOLE community is following Heroes 7. Not the WHOLE HC is even actively posting.
Even, among active members, you have people in Heroes 3 boards, others in Heroes 5 boards, others in the OSM and the Wastelands etc, and most of these don't even comment in Heroes 7 boards, or some very rarely.
Listen, Heroes 7 raises a lot of debates and the Ashan issue has always been there, as you said yourself, it won't change. The discussion thread is a thread of general discussion about the game, so you also get the lore debates there popping up once in a while, depending on the SC reveals.
Once a wise man told me, there will always be things you won't like, and is up to you to choose how to deal (or not) with it.
But asking for a general ban of the whole subject because some can't be civil, I am sorry, but I think is silly.
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted June 26, 2015 10:27 PM |
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Galaad said:
Listen, Heroes 7 raises a lot of debates and the Ashan issue has always been there, as you said yourself, it won't change. The discussion thread is a thread of general discussion about the game, so you also get the lore debates there popping up once in a while, depending on the SC reveals.
I do not mind the lore discussion in H7 thread. But constantly making parallels of Ashan X, Enroth X, Ashan Y, Enroth Y, is getting monotonous. It is okay to mention it in the discussion, but to invoke a futile argument about it is also not beneficial. If such bickering were less pervading the forum, I wouldn't mind, bit the problem is that it is just invoked too frequently. If people cannot resolve such issues, then it would be best to agree that they disagree but that is not happening.
Galaad said:
But asking for a general ban of the whole subject because some can't be civil, I am sorry, but I think is silly.
Wrong, not a ban, just redirection of the already mentioned discussion to a separate place, where the two sides can wage war freely. Not just because people cannot be civil, but because it is also becoming boring, annoying, and without any beneficial outcome that comes from the normal discussion.
It might be silly, and I wouldn't even exclude a little dose of madness as well, but I still want to deal with this issue as I started. If admin says no, then it is going be no, but I at least tried to do something about that.
When the people start to leave, and the present members show disgust and annoyance, I believe that something should be done. I might have turned a mouse into an elephant, but I still think that something should be done about it, instead of just waiting the cancer (sorry for the very strong word here) to spread and ruin everything.
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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