Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
New Server | HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Should Ashan be scraped?
Thread: Should Ashan be scraped? This thread is 42 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 ... 38 39 40 41 42 · NEXT»
LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted September 06, 2014 11:52 AM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 11:53, 06 Sep 2014.

Poll Question:
Should Ashan be scraped?

Do you think Ashan should go to the trash can?

My answer is: YES

1.Uninteresting dragon deities
Ashan is all about the dragon "Gods", everything is centered around them. The certainty of their existence is 100% sure and it leaves no room for hypothesis and interpretation, it also limits the uses of religious crusades, atheism and a plethora of religions and ideologies. Dragon god are boring and are written in a childish manner ("Dragon awesome, dragon good, dragon god" ). This idea isn't very original, it reminds me a lot of Warcraft's dragon aspects, I believe Ubi tries to "borrow" ideas from other successful games, but it fails at it.Counter Counter-arguments: "But necromancers worship a spider", Asha is officially a dragon, even if necromancers believe she's a spider. "But Wizards don't worship dragons", but they still exist and wizard acknowledge the existence of them, even one wizard became a dragon god (whoa, human dragon, such epic), "But orcs worship mother earth and father sky", this idea wasn't used too much, except from a few references, plus orcs are considered as savage and primitive by the dragon worshiping races. "But all of these were religious twists", yes, but they all gravitate around the "draguns", maybe except the stronghold one.

2.Cliche Plot
"Oh no, the 354856th eclipse, the demons are loose again!", this is the only plot in Ashan, again centered around the dragons. Asha's Dragon kids are attacked by Urgash (wow, such epic). So basically, eclipse come, demons arrive on Ashan, apocalypse again, this is becoming boring and a cliche. Also every time Haven, the mighty holy empire and Super Mary Sue of this game is in the spotlight as always. H5? Isabel. H6? All were the kids of the emperor, then they went to other factions. H7? Duke Ivan and his councilors from other factions. Haven all the time, again this is cliche as most fantasy games put Humans in the spotlight. And how it all ends? All factions band together to defeat the big bad guy, if this isn't a cliche, then nothing is.Counter Counter-arguments: "But H3 and Catherine and Armageddon's blade", this is far different from the Ashan plot, first demons didn't get released every game with every eclipse and not all factions band together to defeat the kreegans, "But Sandro and the unholy alliance", not all factions band together and Sandro had allies

3.Uneven sides
Ashan is basically Haven + Sylvan + Stronghold + Dungeon + Academy+ Necropolis + Sancturay + Fortress VS Inferno. 8 factions versus 1, I mean why doesn't Urgash have the same number of factions as Asha? It is unbalanced as in lore they seem to be equal. Also almost every faction is linked to one dragon which limits the number of factions which could be introduced in the game. Counter Counter-arguments: "But some factions hate each other", however they band together under Asha to defeat the demons, so Inferno is alone in this fight.

4.Cliche races and factions
Ashan stripped Heroes of Might and Magic of originality, Rampart/Sorceress/Nature faction became a boring, over-used Tolkien elven faction, dwarves were given their own cliche Tolkien faction, they copied a copy of a copy with the dark elves stolen from warhammer and ruined dungeon forever, barbarian faction became stereotypical orcs. These ideas are so overused in the fantasy games that they became annoying, can't be there more originality? Can't they invent new races? Why they must always copy these?Counter Counter-arguments: "But previous heroes games used stereotypes and copied from other sources too", they at least gave them some originality and changed some, with Ashan they aren't even trying

I have more arguments, but that's enough for one post , so what's your opinion?

Responses:
Yes
No
 View Results!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 12:05 PM

I think even from such a boring concept, original events and stories could be invented. I can think of many. But obviously the game team cannot. So, it's better that Ashan goes to the trash can.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 12:12 PM
Edited by ChrisD1 at 12:16, 06 Sep 2014.

well if a good writer is a good writer he/she can do wonders even with a soap opera premise. so although i voted yes, i believe that ashan can have extremely more debth if someone decided that. plus although it seems that it's 8vs1, what about differrent clans/duchies,cults? not all unite. necro void,haven wolf, desert orcs, etc. so many sub factions can be created along with a story.
potentially everyone can go to war. imagine a scenario where demons are just inactive, and the rest of the factions fight it out!
ashan has potential, some writer's don't
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted September 06, 2014 12:23 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 12:24, 06 Sep 2014.

They made too many stupid choices on Ashan, that limits this world too much, so that's why I think they should make a new world from scratch

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted September 06, 2014 12:24 PM

Voted yes, although I wouldn't expect much from any other world, not while Ubisoft is the one writing the scripts.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 12:36 PM
Edited by Nelgirith at 12:36, 06 Sep 2014.

MattII said:
Voted yes, although I wouldn't expect much from any other world, not while Erwan Lebreton is the one in charge of the project.

Fixed that.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
posted September 06, 2014 12:53 PM
Edited by Galaad at 13:04, 06 Sep 2014.

Voted yes.
LizardWarrior said:
Ashan stripped Heroes of Might and Magic of originality, Rampart/Sorceress/Nature faction became a boring, over-used Tolkien elven faction, dwarves were given their own cliche Tolkien faction, they copied a copy of a copy with the dark elves stolen from warhammer and ruined dungeon forever, barbarian faction became stereotypical orcs. These ideas are so overused in the fantasy games that they became annoying

This is so true. What I cleary don't understand is that NWC left them concept arts and some scripts for story and Ubi just threw it away, thinking making generic snow would be better than a franchise that was already legendary even at that time.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 01:31 PM

is there an actual place where i can find why for instance tower has mages, nagas, gargoyles,gremlins and djinns what's their backround stories?how did they come up all together under a single town? why is it on a mountain? what's the faction's history?
i am not assuming there is not such a thing but is someone could point me out to a place like that it would be great. because since i don't know these kind of things ashan is making more sense to me now. way more sense.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 06, 2014 01:43 PM

Try Ashan Compendium
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted September 06, 2014 01:50 PM
Edited by blob2 at 13:53, 06 Sep 2014.

Hands off the Dragon Gods! It's actually the only interesting idea about Ashan (I'm not saying it's original, but what is nowadays?). It's executed poorly, and that's the problem...

You know what's boring? The same ol' good god bad god, crusades, inquisitions, religious wars and such.

I'm looking forward for an Ubi-era Heroes game that will have a plotline that I actually care about, not to mention remembering it. They are chaotic, full of unlikable characters, and the main question I ask myself after each Ubi-era Heroes campaign is "what the f#ck did the author have in mind when he wrote this s#it". It's not that I don't understand them technically, they're just so poorly written, that they leave me completely indifferent about them...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 01:55 PM

Storm-Giant said:
Try Ashan Compendium


you misunderstood. i meant the lore about the heroes 3 creatures and towns. these little things that the ashan compendium has been feeding us. is there something like that for the heroes 2-3 lore? such detail? so we can safely compare ashan to the previous lore and which is beter and then asnwering why ashan should be/shouldn't be scraped.
i still think ashan has heavy potential as a universe, but they didn't do it justice. yes elves exist but not only tolkien way is the only way to bring elves to life. that's the writer's/etc fault not ashan's.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 02:00 PM

LizardWarrior said:
Do you think Ashan should go to the trash can?


My answer is: NO

1.Uninteresting dragon deities
Imo the dragon god are comparable with the greek gods. Everyone has his or her favourite nation and they squabble a lot amongst each other. I don't see what's so wrong with this premise and certainly don't think it's inferior to planet building or destroying ancient technologically advanced aliens.

2.Cliche Plot
In none of the games the plot has been about a demon invasion and all nations banding together to send them back. Because of the (not always so good) lore, an eclipse is needed for the demons to feature. Therefore heroes 5 and 6 were set during an eclipse, but the plot had hardly anything to do with said eclipse.

3.Uneven sides
More factions does not necessarily mean bigger army. 8 small, mutually divided, factions will have a hard time defeating one huge, undivided, faction.

Quote:
4.Cliche races and factions

Yes, the races and factions are very cliché, but this was also the case for M&M titles from the NWC era. At least ubilore gives a special twist to the races and with the morality being not so black-and-white, they are far less cliché.

If anything, ubisoft needs to hire better writers that can write an interesting story. Throwing away a universe with still so much potential would be a waste. Besides, I am still curious what is behind the veil. My money is still on the veil separating ashan from the old NWC universe.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
posted September 06, 2014 02:01 PM
Edited by Galaad at 14:04, 06 Sep 2014.

ChrisD1 said:
is there an actual place where i can find why for instance tower has mages, nagas, gargoyles,gremlins and djinns what's their backround stories?how did they come up all together under a single town? why is it on a mountain? what's the faction's history?
i am not assuming there is not such a thing but is someone could point me out to a place like that it would be great. because since i don't know these kind of things ashan is making more sense to me now. way more sense.

http://mightandmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Antagarich
Quote:
Bracada is a country on the continent's southern tip, comprised of two parts: a desert to the north and snowy mountains to the south. It's home to Antagarich's wizards. "Descended" from the Empire of Bracaduun, its only known ruler throughout the centuries has been the Immortal King, Gavin Magnus. Bracada is represented by the Tower faction in Heroes of Might and Magic III. Its capital, the skycity of Celeste, served as the headquarters for the "Good" faction in Might and Magic VII. The resident wizards once battled against the four Elemental Lords, as told in Heroes Chronicles: Masters of the Elements, and Bracada is also known for having sided with Erathia during the Restoration Wars.

Capitol: Celeste
Former Rulers: None
Last Ruler: Grand Vizier Gavin Magnus
General Race: Humans, Genies, Gremlins
Borders on: Erathia, Krewlod

Quote:
The tower town is a good alignment town type with alchemist and wizard hero classes. Tower populations are comprised of creatures bound into service by powerful magic, made on the spot, or allied with the town through ancient pacts.

I'm no expert but I guess if you really go through previous M&M games you'll find your answer

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted September 06, 2014 02:01 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 14:10, 06 Sep 2014.

@Steyn:You don't read the counter counter-arguments, do you?

Steyn said:
LizardWarrior said:
Do you think Ashan should go to the trash can?


My answer is: NO

1.Uninteresting dragon deities
Imo the dragon god are comparable with the greek gods. Everyone has his or her favourite nation and they squabble a lot amongst each other. I don't see what's so wrong with this premise and certainly don't think it's inferior to planet building or destroying ancient technologically advanced aliens.


But only greeks, not Egyptians, Persian and Germanics

Quote:
2.Cliche Plot
In none of the games the plot has been about a demon invasion and all nations banding together to send them back. Because of the (not always so good) lore, an eclipse is needed for the demons to feature. Therefore heroes 5 and 6 were set during an eclipse, but the plot had hardly anything to do with said eclipse.


OMG, Isabell in Sheog, warlocks, rangers and knights go to her rescue

Quote:
3.Uneven sides
More factions does not necessarily mean bigger army. 8 small, mutually divided, factions will have a hard time defeating one huge, undivided, faction.


The week growths are the same

Quote:
4.Cliche races and factions
Yes, the races and factions are very cliché, but this was also the case for M&M titles from the NWC era. At least ubilore gives a special twist to the races and with the morality being not so black-and-white, they are far less cliché.


Wrong, most races are goody-two-shoes and demons are as black as it can be

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 02:08 PM

-what a sh*tty cake!
-yes lets not eat cake again!!
-i mean with good ol' pie you could do more stuff,more room for potential, more fillings toppings or whatever.
-yes cake is just this one thing!!

do you get where i'm going with this? your arguement is wrongly against ashan, instead of lazy/incompetent writers. a good writer and a good designer can bring lots of stuff and ideas to party whatever that party is. change your question and the poll. it is unfair to ashan as an idea.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 02:10 PM

I did

1: you did not treat my counterargument
2: i think my argument is more of a counter-counter-counter argument
3: same here. inferno might be alone, but because it has only one goal, destroy ashan, it isn't divided into factions, thus making it stronger.
4: ubi's rip-off races are more original than NWC's

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted September 06, 2014 02:12 PM

Steyn said:
I did
4: ubi's rip-off races are more original than NWC's


prove it

I'm not saying all of Ashan factions are cliche, but most of them

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 02:15 PM

Galaad said:

I'm no expert but I guess if you really go through previous M&M games you'll find your answer


i did search the page and i liked a lot ,thanks. but i did notquite find my answer. no detailson creatures how they were created or what they actually are. maybe i didn't search good enough. as for lizard warrior i must again address him that ashan can have potential why doesn't he get that?
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted September 06, 2014 02:17 PM

Yes, it may have potential, but I saw nothing.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 06, 2014 02:19 PM

LizardWarrior said:
Yes, it may have potential, but I saw nothing.

because the people who wrote the story were not that good at it!! seriously, come on!!
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 42 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 ... 38 39 40 41 42 · NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0754 seconds